Posts by Acluetofindtheuser

190

The Two Trees - My Genesis Ponderings

by cedars in

i've just posted a new blog article to jwstruggle.com on the link below:.

http://www.jwstruggle.com/2012/03/the-two-trees-my-genesis-ponderings/.

the purpose behind the article is to explore my own doubts and long-standing confusion over the genesis narrative - particularly the events surrounding adam and eve's expulsion from eden, and the "two trees" (namely the "tree of life" and the "tree of the knowledge of good and bad").. in my article i discuss my confusion over what the exact properties of the "tree of the knowledge of good and bad" may have been, and the fact that evidently by eating of the fruit adam and eve did not become sinful but more godlike.

Acluetofindtheuser

I believe both trees had different types of hormones in their fruit. One particular tree would start puberty and sexual attraction in humans. Adam and Eve were as innocent children not knowing physical attraction. Choosing to eat of the forbidden fruit launched puberty and attraction, with God out of the picture.

God was waiting for them to ask the question on how to mate, since there was no physical drive to turn themselves on. They had no desire to become many and fill the earth so they did not ask him the question about sex drive. When the time was right he would have presented them to one of the trees for their next step.

Otherwise, if they were created fully mature Adam would have had intercourse with Eve the moment she was fully cooked and they would have had a perfect bun in the oven before the transgression. This would have created a paradox for God if the later was true. A number of perfect babies could have been born before the temptation. There would have been a world mixed with perfect humans and sinning humans.

The trees were meant to be hormone injectors. One tree launches procreation and one tree ensures errorless cellular reproduction.

73

GB: "We don't know if Jehovah wants us to build new headquarters, but we're doing it anyway..."

by cedars in

the latest august 15th watchtower study edition features an interesting review of the society's annual meeting.. one comment struck me as evidence that the governing body isn't quite as "discreet" as it claims.. here is what the article said:.

"there are plans to develop a 248-acre (100 ha) property at warwick.

'although we are not yet certain of jehovahs will regarding warwick,' said brother pierce, 'we are proceeding to develop the site with the intention of relocating the world headquarters of jehovahs witnesses there.

Acluetofindtheuser

They're following the path of Causality. Every move is a hunch because there is no inspiration.

I think they're following this scripture.

"If the clouds are full of rain, they empty themselves on the earth, and if a tree falls to the south or to the north, in the place where the tree falls, there it will lie."

They go wherever the wind blows them.

54

Brother Hero wants to watch Faith in Action with me this Saturday

by garyneal in

jw
friends

the question i have is, should i even bother?

i am not even sure why he wants to watch this particular video.

ive already seen it with my wife a few days ago and already seen how they leave a lot of details out concerning their teachings of old.

Acluetofindtheuser

It was kind of cool to see old movie clips of Russel and Photo Drama of Creation in the DVD. After seeing Russel talk on camera I wondered what the org would look like if he were alive today? He was quite the revolutionary who wasn't afraid to speculate. If he was on the GB today he'd probably be kicked off for being too wild and independent.

Can you imagine the outcome if they had young GB members today? They should have one wild card in their ranks to shake'm up a bit? One revolutionary 25 year old maybe. Fresh and new ideas usually come from the younger generations. Just look at the StarWars movies. Lucas was very imaginative in the beginning, with his first three films. The last three were just yuck, except for the fight scene with Darth Maul, Qui-Gon Jinn and Obi-Wan Kenobi.

11

Does God need humans and their organisations to speak for him?

by Fernando in

is god's word or message.

(the multi-ingredient "unabridged gospel" or "good news").

which is hidden in plain sight throughout scripture.

Acluetofindtheuser

The path becomes muddy periodically and God sends messengers to get his word back on track. Anyone up to being a prophet of God to correct the wayward Org? Does God speak to you so you can bring meaningful change?

Just look at biblical history with Israel being set up by God.

First Org: Good, Bad, Good, Bad, Good, Bad, Bad, then Org splits in Two-North and South.

North Org: Good, Bad, Good, Bad, Good, Bad, Bad, Cut off for good

South Org: Good, Bad, Good, Bad, Good, Bad, Good, Bad, Bad, Cut off temporarily

Return of South Org: Good, Bad, Good, Bad, Good, Revolutionary comes, South Org deemed Bad

New kind of Org: Good, Bad, Good, Bad, Good, Bad, Good, Bad or Good-You decide

Seems like the Good-Bad trend is normal and God is the only one responsible for correcting it. This is meaningless if you don't subscribe to the Abraham, Isaac, Jacob, David, Jesus saga.

112

2005 - The year the Society began its decline (without anyone noticing)!

by cedars in

i've just finished an article for randy over on freeminds.org, which i've submitted to him for review.

hopefully it should be online soon, so please keep checking!.

the article discusses the fact that the watch tower society is already in decline, and suggests the year 2005 as the turning point.

Acluetofindtheuser

Hi Steve. Thanks for your kind reply. It means a lot to me. I was kind of worried I might get sarcastic responses to my posts.

I came to this site because this is the only place I can discuss deep issues I can't discuss at the Hall without being taken to the back room. I've signed onto other discussion forums to discuss these matters but no one can relate to me because they don't have a witness background. One close friend of mine a while back told me to write to the society about some of these concepts. I told him I would never do that because it did not feel right. That feeling was confirmed when I saw that recent thread saying that writing to the society only brings trouble for yourself.

Thanks for listening.

55

Armaggeddon may occur invisibly

by mankkeli in

jw
friends

at the end of today's meeting, some over-righteous friends were discussing the various possibilities of armaggeddon occuring invisibly, considering the explanation given within the "parousia" domain on the invisible presence of christ in 1914. they reffered to some articles which i am presently looking through.. .

while he was sitting upon the mount of olives, the disciples approached him privately, saying: tell us, when will these things be, and what will be the sign of your presence [pa?rou?sia, greek] and of the conclusion of the system of things?.

"in our day, then, what is meant by the biblical expression the presence of our lord jesus christ?

Acluetofindtheuser

I've never heard any witness say Armageddon would come invisibly. If one I knew ever said that I would laugh at them and tell them they were nuts.

Armageddon will be very physical. The show will feel like a high budget sci-fi movie. Get your popcorn out. No invisible this or invisible that, Jesus will return at its climax and he will be in the incarnate form. The timeline for this is anyone's guess. Maybe the world will change severely after the Mayan date comes and goes and the generation count will start from there.

19

Jehovah's Witnesses Diapers and Dentures

by Refriedtruth in

.

growing old in the watchtower's "spiritual paradise" really sucks!.

this is 2012 and i am a younger 'baby boomer' born 1957 so i am 55 years old.... in another 20 or 30 years tops i have this destiny along with every human being including millions of devout jehovah's witnesses.. there is no watchtower 'new system paradise' you will grow old and die.if there really is an apocalyptic event of armageddon jesus christ advent,it only means that the watchtower organization will be swept away along with all other false religion..

Acluetofindtheuser

Wow! That watchtower magazine was an eye opener. I was too young to remember that picture back in 84. The last person to die in that image was Sophie Yuchniewicz, which was in 2008. They revised the generation teaching in 1995, correct?

Now we just wait for December 21, 2012 to see if the Mayans got it right. That's when the Mayan war god named Bolon Yokte' comes down from heaven to bring strife to the world.

112

2005 - The year the Society began its decline (without anyone noticing)!

by cedars in

i've just finished an article for randy over on freeminds.org, which i've submitted to him for review.

hopefully it should be online soon, so please keep checking!.

the article discusses the fact that the watch tower society is already in decline, and suggests the year 2005 as the turning point.

Acluetofindtheuser

Thanks guys for the words of wisdom and links for study.

Funny you mention the society as a sort of institutionalized experience. A witness friend of mine who toured bethel a number of years ago told me he enjoyed seeing the organization at work but could not see himself there because of it being fashioned after an institution. He is still a happy witness but wants to be one under his own roof.

Never had the chance to read The Finished Mystery online. I always wanted to do that. I would prefer skimming over the material before looking at Alfred's summary. I don't want to be biased yet.

A race of servants, sounds like the teaching the Mormons used to have before it was deemed evil. The older white generation (in their 90s) still refer to African Americans as colored. Its hard to train an old dog new tricks.

What are the three scriptures pertaining to new light you mentioned? I forgot them.

It know it can be frustrating when new light reveals a misunderstood bible passage, such as the generation issue. Recently I read an article in the WT that said the opposite of one that was published in the 70's. I was kind of angry because I liked the writer's concept from the 70's.

I believe Jehovah is still with the organization but I think he is not controlling every affair. I believe the holy spirit only acts when the extra ordinary calls for it. As seen from this board it looks like holy spirit has no part in appointing MS and Elders. The holy spirit wrote the qualifications in the bible so it would seem the holy spirit in essence appoints them because they are following the written word. There was a situation once where I observed a Memorial evening fiasco for two congregations were the caretaker forgot to open the rented facility. The two congregations had to squeeze together at the Hall for a super late Memorial observance. Holy spirit did not motivate the caretaker to get off his butt. God has bigger fish to fry in the universe. I think I experienced it once in my life. The experience could have been a coincidence but it was a million to one shot.

Israel and Judah sinned against God many times but he still kept up with them because he staked claim on their family line. That could be true today. The leadership can make God happy one day and mad the other because it has happened before. God can bring discipline on his chosen organization if they are not doing as he pleases. If the society goes into a decline as you mentioned it could make the leaders feel as if Jehovah removed his blessing from them. They might repent and try to figure out why they caused so many to turn away in the developed countries. It might be said that it lacks luster.

I wouldn't be here if I didn't have an open mind. I think my mind opened up about 15 years ago when I started to ponder on things in the bible the society had no comment on. There was an Oct. 15, 2011 Watchtower (study edition) 'questions from readers' on that subject. They said they wouldn't have the answers to these questions but said we should let the bible answer for itself. It has in many cases.

The life in the org has definitely shaped my thinking. I can't imagine what I'd be like if I was never exposed to it from childhood. I do have some regrets with social development due to restricted associations.

I hope the ship isn't really sinking. If it is, I hope God comes to the rescue at the right time and brings everything out in the open.

I don't think it will be as a house of cards. It has some good foundation pieces in place. They just need some solid beams added to it.

112

2005 - The year the Society began its decline (without anyone noticing)!

by cedars in

i've just finished an article for randy over on freeminds.org, which i've submitted to him for review.

hopefully it should be online soon, so please keep checking!.

the article discusses the fact that the watch tower society is already in decline, and suggests the year 2005 as the turning point.

Acluetofindtheuser

Hi Cedars. Thanks for presenting your observations. I have a couple of questions for you. Do you believe the Society had Jehovah's backing sometime before 1975? Do you believe they are playing the part of the evil slave now?

I've been in the organization all my life. I've seen a number of friends leave the faith in some sort of fading fashion. I continue to stay because it gives me structure and hope. I feel Jehovah and Jesus are still watching over earth's affairs.

There is one major element missing from the organization now. It's the constant flow of new light they used to have in the past, such as the content in the Photo Drama of Creation as seen in the Scenario book. It was all highly speculative but it was very cool none the less. The excitement level has fizzled out with modern publications. They just seem to be recycling old topics, but I still enjoy the NatGeo style Awakes. When we received last years convention invitations everyone was so excited about the question mark on the toes of the statue, even the elders. It was kind of a buzz-kill when they announced what it meant at the convention. It was so-so new/old light.

If the society is looking for doctrinal changes in the future, to reactivate new zeal, I've got a few up my sleeve that would blow their pants off. Old publications of the society have driven me on this quest, along with my out-of-box thinking mentality. I wish we could express ourselves freely just as Charles R. did back in the day without fear. I don't mention my ideas to anyone because they would bring up the "voice of strangers" card I believe. I just don't want to lose my structure and friends right now.

Is reproof always expected if you bring up something new? Is it a form of presumptuousness?

47

What Scriptural Support Is There For Believing in Second/Greater Fulfillments of Bible Prophecy?

by JWB in

what scriptural support is there for believing in second/greater fulfillments of bible prophecy?.

this is a genuine equiry into where the idea of second/greater fulfillments of bible prophecy originated.

does it have definite scriptural support or is it simply an extra-biblical religious device thought up to try to make prophecies appear relevant to the modern age?

Acluetofindtheuser

Isaiah 13:12-13

What does this mean to you?