What Scriptural Support Is There For Believing in Second/Greater Fulfillments of Bible Prophecy?

by JWB 47 Replies latest watchtower beliefs

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  JWB

  WHAT SCRIPTURAL SUPPORT IS THERE FOR BELIEVING IN SECOND/GREATER FULFILLMENTS OF BIBLE PROPHECY?
  
  This is a genuine equiry into where the idea of second/greater fulfillments of Bible prophecy originated. Does it have definite scriptural support or is it simply an extra-biblical religious device thought up to try to make prophecies appear relevant to the modern age? Has Second Adventism played a role in developing this view of prophecy? This of course has a bearing on understanding, for instance, Daniel chapter 4 and the predictions contained in Matthew 24, Luke 21 and Mark 13.
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  ScenicViewer

  Watchtower uses two scriptures that I know of to apply things to today.

  -- "For all the things that were written aforetime were written for our instruction, that through our endurance and through the comfort from the Scriptures we might have hope." (Rom 15:4)

  -- "Now these things went on befalling them as examples, and they were written for a warning to us upon whom the ends of the systems of things have arrived." (1 Cor 10:11)

  Of course neither of these scriptures say anything about applying to today, but to the time they were written, 2000 yrs ago.

  The Society makes an application of them by extension, bringing them to our day.
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  Phizzy

  Neither of those scriptures are justification for the second/Greater Fulfilment idea in any way.

  The "by extension" method of exegesis is one that really means "this scripture says what I say it says", which just sums up the WT method.

  I do not think there is anything in the Bible that gives justification for a 2nd fulfillment.

  Good thread JWB !
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  transhuman68

  It’s all Paul’s fault. He was the first person to troll the Hebrew Scriptures looking for references that he could apply to Christ. Once he started finding “prophecies” it was open slather, and everything could be found to have two fulfilments if you wanted to imagine it. And the Bible is open-ended, with Revelation projecting far into the future to a theoretical ‘end of the world’. So now every damn thing in the Bible- trees, seeds, lambs, snakes, statues- the whole lot- can be taken as having some greater meaning in the future.
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  Phizzy

  The prophecies applying to Christ thingy was picked up in a big way later by the writer of the gospel of Matthew.

  But were any of these seen as 2nd fulfillments ? I don't think so, they were seen as ponting to Christ, he fulfilled them, end of.

  I still see no precedent in the Bible for a 2nd fulfillment, yes taking a biblical "type" is common, the tabernacle for instance, but again , only one fulfillment, not a greater one to follow.

  I may be wrong, but I would need a good solid example of a minor fulfillment of a prophecy and then a 2nd or greater to say there is a precedent, and I cannot recall one.

  If there is not, all the WT interpretations using this method become even more shaky than they appeared.
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  TimothyT

  What a great post with some great answers!

  I have often thought about this myself. Quite often I speak with a current JW sister who shares her bible research with me. I dont mind reading what she has to say as 99% of the time its encouraging, but it grates on me when she quotes from the societies publications directly. These usualy involve her affirming her beleif that a specific verse had a meaning back then, in Jesus day, and in our day. Recently she has been looking at Isaiah, and has sent me a number of the points from the Isaiah book. Some of the extended applications are CRAZY!

  As JWs we were brought up to believe that Matthew 24 was about the modern day, but Jesus WAS talking to his disciples about their day. Does it apply today? Should it be used to apply today? How on earth do we answer such questions?
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  tornapart

  What about all the scriptures that speak of a 'new heavens' and a 'new earth', Satan being bound for a thousand years, then coming to his end. The end of death.. these things haven't happened yet so they must be future.
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  TimothyT

  I remember reading a book about Revelation. They spoke about those things Tornapart. I personally have no idea. Hehe. I have tried to reason through Revelation and I get the basic message. There are 4 main views of Revelations prophecies:

  http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Book_of_Revelation#Religious_interpretations

  Historicist, which sees in Revelation a broad view of history;

  Preterist, in which Revelation mostly refers to the events of the apostolic era (1st century);

  Futurist, which believes that Revelation describes future events; and

  Idealist, or Symbolic, which holds that Revelation does not refer to actual people or events, but is an allegory of the spiritual path and the ongoing struggle between good and evil.

  I suppose no one really knows which time period they speak of. When i read this book, i considered really that the JWs take futurist perspective. Im inclined to agree in this case. But I do think the idealist perspective could be right in the sense that maybe the new earth and heaven are symbolic, etc.

  What do you think? :)
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  Phizzy

  Dear Tornapart, some scriptures seem to be prophecies, and in fact may not be, some definately are, the final judgement ones for instance, but that is not what the thread is about, we were looking for Biblical sanction for the WT's method (other religions use it too) of a prophecy having an initial fulfillment, and then a second one, both plainly shown to be such.

  Without such a precedent, why should the method be used ? the initial fulfillment is the only one, another one makes no sense unless it is shown to be a biblical practice.

  Of course this still relies on the Bible being inspired,and a single work, which it patently is not.
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  transhuman68

  This is an extract from a book by Burton L. Mack:

  Those who study the Bible in quest of an answer to some question say it works, that answers are forthcoming. By this they mean that the study of the Bible does produce insights and instructions that address human circumstances of our time. This impression can be explained. It is an accidental by-product of the way the Bible combines two different collections of writings, the Old and the New Testament. The way these two collections are connected forms a kind of equation for solving theoretical problems and produces a kind of grammar for thinking about: human situations. The uncanny aspect of this equation is that it automatically activates cognitive functions that are basic for any and all human thought. Ultimately, it is the way this equation stimulates thought that gives the Bible its fascination as a book of sacred oracles and teases the reader into thinking that it holds the secret to profound understanding.

  The Bible works its magic at the level of cognitive grammar in the following way. The balance between the old and the new sets up an equation of comparison and contrast. Comparison and contrast are fundamental modes of classifying things and thinking about them. Some would say they are the fundamental cognitive functions. The old and the new also make a ranked pair, with the new superior to the old. All binary oppositions, all pairs of comparative or contrastive terms in the arenas of human thought are ranked. The ranking may be arbitrary in such pairs as light/dark, up/down, male/female, but it is never missing. That is surely one reason why the contrast between the old and the new in the Christian Bible has never been questioned. It has been taken in stride as natural. The signs contained in the Old Testament, moreover, need to be read at two levels of signification in order to work in the Christian equation.

  There is a lot more, but this is all I scanned in. I think he is saying that once we start looking for prophecies from the OT that are fulfilled in the NT, our thinking is set-up to look for prophecy in the NT that is fulfilled in the reader's time. I don't know if this helps....