Yeah, and I'm old enough (and been around the block enough) to know not to judge just who is and who isn't sane here! Hopefully I steered the person in a positive direction. Thanks for the positive feedback. Much appreciated.
morrisamb
JoinedPosts by morrisamb
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Is it ever ok not to expose pedophilia?
by SixofNine insome comments in another thread got me thinking about this.. i can't imagine any scenario wherein it would be best to cover over pedophilia.
the needs/feelings of the victim was brought up as a possible reason.
i think the needs of society outweigh the needs of the victim six billion to one, but i also think that this means what is good for society is also exactly what is best for the victim.
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24
Is it ever ok not to expose pedophilia?
by SixofNine insome comments in another thread got me thinking about this.. i can't imagine any scenario wherein it would be best to cover over pedophilia.
the needs/feelings of the victim was brought up as a possible reason.
i think the needs of society outweigh the needs of the victim six billion to one, but i also think that this means what is good for society is also exactly what is best for the victim.
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morrisamb
Dear One: I don't know whether to cry or scream at your post. Monetary compensation? Keep an eye on him?
I must assume you have not had much experience with the crime of sexual abuse.
We're talking about monsters touching helpless children.And your comparing it to a burgular.
Please, please read up on this subject. There is much to learn. -
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Warning: Pedophiles and JW.COM
by dungbeetle inwhile it is true that the watchtower harbors pedophiles and stifles its victims, it is also true that not every pedophile and sexual offender in the watchtower got this same treatment.
there are some sexual offenders who have been caught and expelled from the organization.. is there any reason to think that some of them have not made their way to this forum?
that these perpetrators are watching everything we say and do here on this board?.
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morrisamb
Hi Dungbeetle, your righteous indignation is loud and clear and I thank you for that.
But although a survivor myself, I want molesters to read my book, read our posts, and on and on. But I doubt they would. Why? Because there ain't no boy love talk here! There is some excellent material that would make peodophiles squirm in their boots! If they want their jollies they definitely aren't got to find that here either.
My molester has written me 100s of letters telling me he forgives me, that I'm going to hell and he's going to heaven. Even though he has "dedicated his life to reaching Jehovah's Witnesses" you wouldn't find him on this thread in a million years. He is in pursuit of the blind, the innocent. Most of people on this site are neither.
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24
Is it ever ok not to expose pedophilia?
by SixofNine insome comments in another thread got me thinking about this.. i can't imagine any scenario wherein it would be best to cover over pedophilia.
the needs/feelings of the victim was brought up as a possible reason.
i think the needs of society outweigh the needs of the victim six billion to one, but i also think that this means what is good for society is also exactly what is best for the victim.
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morrisamb
What an excellent post! Should you ever push a person to disclose their abuse?
You might find this interesting. This is a partial quote from a lengthly review from India (the entire review is posted on this thread:A new book... ) of my book in which there was a ton of disclosures....
"The first way of dealing with abuse, they say, is to “speak out”: disclosure as a one time, one shot blowing the lid off abuse, because the law will take charge the moment we speak. Father’s Touch teaches us that disclosure is as multi-layered and multi textured as the violence itself, and the “law” [assuming of course that by that term we mean a secular law] hangs above, barely touching the surface, and even that reluctantly. We learn that the law also “copes” with family violence through dissociation, providing in the process little relief or opportunity for recuperation to survivors! In Donald’s case, the first disclosure was to his mother when he was ten, i.e., six and a half years after he began to be abused. The earliest disclosure outside the immediate family was soon after, when his older brother Ronnie told a doctor. The doctor replied: “You’re probably going to turn into a homosexual. Just be careful and don’t turn into a molester. It happens quite frequently,” and sent him home with his abuser and did nothing further.” [p.78]. Then Ronnie confides in the Elders of the religious community. “Their reaction: a mix of detachment, curiosity, and confirmation.” [pp.105-106]. Over a period of nine years approximately thirty people had been told about the abuse, including policemen, judges, attorneys, physicians and the Church Elders. And, when the survivors decided to press charges of assault, ...)
You get the drift, disclosing is just one (and a giant one at that)step...the process is multi-layered and complex. I know a thousand victims of sexual abuse...maybe 5 have disclosed. Why? I wrote this column on this very subject:
Why male victims don't tell?
By Donald D'HaeneAs a survivor of sexual abuse, what strikes me as most ironic is the fact that male victims still remain nameless: ashamed of their experience even now, in 2002. Why should male victims be ashamed when our numbers are legion?
It's time we talk openly about child abuse and its prevention. But the fact is that men are ashamed of disclosing their experience with sexual abuse. They shouldn't be.
Almost two decades ago, I decided, along with four other victims (three male, one female), to charge our abuser. Since 1982, after going to court and public with our case, scores of men have disclosed their abuse to me but few have gone public. For every man like hockey player Sheldon Kennedy, there are thousands who remain silent. Why?
Our society cultivates feelings of shame in subtle and not-so-subtle ways. Often an abuser is enabled to continue molesting by members of the community. For example, consider the protection that powerful institution, the church, provided our abuser, my father. My younger brother disclosed the abuse to our mother, two years later, my older brother confided in the ministers of our congregation. To report our abuse would have involved the Children's Aid Society, which would have removed us from our father's reach. Although our father was excommunicated by the congregation and our mother was publicly reproved for not reporting the incidents to the ministers earlier, we four children were sent back home with our abuser.
Therefore, although the congregation was protected, the abuser's children and the public at large were not. From the disclosures other victims have shared with me, my experience is not unusual in this regard.
But even people who truly care about victims add to the issue of personal shame. One minister and his wife told be it would be better if I change my name "because there is a bad sound to it now. It's connected to the abuser. People will think of him, not of you as his victim."
Another reason for silence is a concern for the feelings of the extended family. But I suggest disclosure may lessen the feelings of shame. Sometimes victims must listen to their abuser being praised as a fine pillar in the community. Silence perpetuates abuse.
I am not suggesting that court proceedings will not prove daunting. In our case, even though a conviction was achieved, I learned justice is a relative term. The judge, in his oral reasons for judgment, said, my "childhood must have been a hell on Earth," but he also found that my abuser, "is not now, in my opinion, in need of rehabilitation or reformation and is not now a danger to any member of the public." He said he based this on my father's lawyers' submissions and a psychiatric report which "shows clearly that there is no overt sign of mental illness."
How is it possible that a victim's recovery process involves years of therapy, ongoing issues such as sexual confusion and flashbacks, whereas an abuser can be deemed free of mental illness, and not in need of rehabilitation? Because in our case, the prosecutor never interviewed the victims, never asked if we wanted to testify, and had arranged a plea-bargain before the case went to trial. We had no opportunity to dispute or challenge any testimony.
Finally, the most common reason male victims feel shame is our culture's imposed guilt of homosexual contact. Unfortunately, sexual abuse of males is often labeled in this way instead of the criminal act it is.
Survival is a never-ending process. Our society still tries to silence victims. My abuser writes me: "It appears (I) am the only one whose lifestyle reflects that of the Almighty...I forgive you for all that you have done to me." But I encourage fellow victims and survivors to take charge of their destiny. Come forward, seek help and healing. For those who have the strength, fortitude and peer support, consider telling your story and seek legal counsel now. It is only by publicly bonding that we can truly feel we are not alone, not to blame and do not need to continue feeling shame.
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Victims Quiet Pain - Why the WTS hides Pedophiles
by Amazing inwhat is for the good of victims?
in borrowing some language from pathoforms, we can ask the following: is mandatory reporting of these allegations to the authorities respecting a victim's right to their dignity?
what if they feel too embarrassed over what happened or if it is their desire "not to testify" in court?
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morrisamb
Dear Waiting, nice to make your acquaintance. Actually my partner's name is Maurice (Morris) and I am Donald.
Thanks for your comments. I would have to say, after more than 20 years of dealing with the subject, ministers, priests, Elders, whatever, are generally the most unqualified people in handling sexual abuse. Nothing has changed my mind but I'd love to! So once I figured that out, I realized that's one of the problems. I wouldn't listen one second to a minister, priest, Elder, whatever tell me one thing about how I should feel, what I should do. Hug me, love me, give me unconditional love, but shut up about knowing what's best for me and my experience with abuse!
two examples as proof.
1. I was in a car with a priest last summer. He didn't know I had been abused and he told my partner, who was sitting in the back seat: "You know, I'm worried about my pension. Those sex abuse victims' allegations and case settlements are dipping into the pot!"
2. An Elder told my Mother, "I can't believe Donald would turn out like his father." You guessed it, just because I'm gay and my father was a heterosexual molester.
Waiting,after all I've been through, such lines take on a level of farce. I mean these "ministers' missions" are to counsel and comfort others. How little comfort these comments prove to be!
Yes, people will find my little book quite an eye-opener!
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Victims Quiet Pain - Why the WTS hides Pedophiles
by Amazing inwhat is for the good of victims?
in borrowing some language from pathoforms, we can ask the following: is mandatory reporting of these allegations to the authorities respecting a victim's right to their dignity?
what if they feel too embarrassed over what happened or if it is their desire "not to testify" in court?
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morrisamb
thanks Mulan, I am sorry I missed that.
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Victims Quiet Pain - Why the WTS hides Pedophiles
by Amazing inwhat is for the good of victims?
in borrowing some language from pathoforms, we can ask the following: is mandatory reporting of these allegations to the authorities respecting a victim's right to their dignity?
what if they feel too embarrassed over what happened or if it is their desire "not to testify" in court?
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morrisamb
I hear your pain. And I can relate to your sister's concern for your feelings while she was being raped. My sister and brothers and I were all sexually abused - sometimes together- and we became extraordinarily protective of each other but never shed a tear for our individual experiences -- who would listen, anyway?
I find people listen to me now and seek out my advice/opinions.
Recently I was contacted by a Brazilian journalist for O Globo Newspaper. He interviewed me about my experience being abused within a Jehovah's Witness family as compared to a priest, etc.He asked, Do you think there would be less abuse if women were allowed in the clergy? I said, "That's not the point. In fact, neither is whether the vow of celibacy is indirectly related to the number of abuse cases. Molesters use patriarchal systems to prolong their reign of terror. It is not the fault of religion that molesters abuse their position of authority." He then asked, "If these priests are removed from the Church, won't that lead to a major loss of spiritual leaders?" I said, "Aren't churches in place to help their disciples? Isn't one victim's soul worth disrupting an institution for? If you leave one bad apple, you risk spoiling an entire bushel."
The spotlight of sexual abuse is on the Catholic Church at the moment, but the truth is there are legions of male victims in every sphere of life. That said, wouldn't it be Christlike if spiritual leaders within the Catholic Church stood up to the plate, set an example for the world, stating: "Sexual abuse will not be tolerated in any form and those found guilty must be dealt with. The Church aches for the suffering of the innocent victims."
Is that too much to ask? Anything less is unacceptable!
Why do molesters molest? Because they can. While all of us victims carry the guilt that should be on their head, they are free to molest others. I suggest our guilt and shame is directly related to the molester's lack of it.
I think we survivors must speak out so that other victims know they should not give up hope. If you had seen me at my "worst" you wouldn't believe I have the life I have today....I am loved!!! And the best part of it is I know I deserve it. We survivors have our own club, don't we? We have everything in common even though we are strangers.I am not anti-any religion. I respect faith and its power in peoples' lives. The problem is so do many molesters, who use RELIGION's structure, it's patriarchal institution and it's bureacracy to manipulate and control the innocent. It's the molester who uses the religion -- not the other way around.
I escaped the past by dissociating from my experiences, sometime past and present. I know that's what I needed to do and although I thought I was crazy, that ship has sailed long ago because of the excellent therapy I have experienced. The therapy helped me intellectually never emotinally though. I've never cried in a therapy setting. I only have cried a few times with my partner, Maurice. I had to feel truly loved before I could let go. I'm 41 now. Sometimes I feel like a kid trapped in an adult body. But I'm so happy to be alive which is such an incredable feeling after wishing I was dead for so long.
I have been told I should be a therapist by a great many people. My experience led to a sixth sense about things. It comes very naturally...I have a problem solving brain. Hey we take what we get, no!
And you might find this interesting...
This was a posting on another JW web site, trying to connect my book to the Witnesses in a negative way:
There is growing evidence that the Watchtower Bible & Tract Society is being implicated in having encouraged elders, ministerial servants and even those higher up in the organization to cover over cases of child sexual abuse, male and female rape, molestation as well as domestic violence in their local congregations.
The reason?The leadership is determined to give the public the impression that they are "God's Organization," a safe haven from the world. The truth of the matter may be far different. (the poster than quote from my web site and gave the web url.
MY REPONSE:
I am the author of the book that Paster Ron started this thread with a reference to. I do not know who Paster Ron is. I didn't even know about this site until my web site showed people had visited my web site from the link here. I've read all the comments in response to Mr. Ron's intitial posting. THE TRUTH IS my book is about a Jehovah's Witness family. I never stress that fact on my web site because my story is universal. Sexual abuse can and has happened to countless families of all denominations. But my book definitely is about the sexual and pyschological abuse of children and the physical abuse of a wife by someone who claimed to be a Jehovah's Witness. That's the facts, but the scope of the story is much broader, covering issues beyond faith: education, justice, crime and punishment.
Then on this same thread someone wrote me:
Donald,
You said that you were a Jehovah's witness. Is it possible for you to give convincing reasons that they are incorrect? There is a disagreement as to who Jesus is on the "Jesus said...." thread (and this entire site for that matter, at least for some of us). Perhaps you might be able to demonstrate here that how Jesus and the Father are separate and that God doesn't actually talk to himself. Or, that God does talk to himself as two different people and yet the same God? If it is confusion, it is not of God, so please, attempt to remove the confusion for us. I found the trinity most convincing until I heard the other side of the story firsthand. Also, I found, since being in this community, that trinitarians have many different versions of what the trinity is suppose to mean. confusing? Is this God's authorship?
My response:
Dear David,
I haven't been a Witness since '84 and in all these years I have never tried to convince someone they should/ or should not do anything based on my experience. If you have found a faith that gives you strength, hope, a future, why would anyone want to stop you?
My book is a memoir about my life. My book certainly deals with issues of faith and the Catholic Church, Jehovah's Witnesses and Born Again Christians do make appearances, but no one reading it will decide to chuck their faith, and if they did, they are looking for something that isn't there.
Many people have shared their personal stories with me over the past two decades and one of the things that I recommend for people who have been imbittered by a system: doctrine, church, society, etc., is to look outside the box that each of these can create. I was able to deal with my past through excellent therapy, unconditional love, and taking the time to see the suffering around me. There are so many people worse of then me ...how can I complain?
I hear your pain. I sense your unhappiness. Please don't give up in your search for truth and light..It's out there.
Donald D'Haene
www.fatherstouch.comSo once again, Amazing, I hear your pain and I empathize with you. We can't change the "world" but we can make a difference.
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Dateline's Necessity
by metatron inthere is a new necessity for the dateline expose'.. fairness to catholics.. the blitz of media attention has focused almost exclusively.
on the catholic church and its priests.
yet, other centralized.
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morrisamb
Considering the amount of press this has received my book release couldn't be more timely. I was sexually abused for 11 years by my Witness father.
FATHER'S TOUCH by Donald D'Haene
American Book Publishing, Salt Lake City, UTAH
ISBN # 1-58982-112-2
Release Date: Check this link after May 15, 2002
PUBLISHER DIRECT BOOKSTORE
http://www.pdbookstore.com
OR ORDER NOW FROM : Oxford Book Stores, 740 Richmond St. London, Ontario, N6A 1L6, (519) 438-8336
OR LEAVE NAME, EMAIL, OR ADDRESS AT FOR EXACT RELEASE DATE:
http://www.fatherstouch.com/Order.htmREAD THE REVIEWS FROM AROUND THE WORLD BELOW:
Boston, USA "Father's Touch is an extraordinary book. I have read many impressive memoirs .....many features set this one above the pack."
Mike Lew, Author
Leaping upon the Mountains
England: "This well written and fluent book should be required reading for all....These may care to know Donald more than survived his past and is today a successful art journalist, actor and TV presenter. "
Dione M. Coumbe LL.B(Hons.)Editor & Reviewer for www.DoverWeb.co.uk;
Managing Director of Book Publicity Ltd. UK, www.BookPublicity.co.uk
FULL REVIEW BELOW
New Delhi, INDIA "Powerful....An amazing and deeply moving testimony of survival, faith and courage, Father's Touch reinscribes in positive, empowering ways, the meaning of human relationships and social responsibility."
Kalpana Kannabiran
Reviewer for Biblio: A Review of Books, New Delhi, India
Co-author, De-Eroticizing Assault: Essays on Modesty, Honour and Power, Calcutta: Stree, 2002.
Associate Professor, NALSAR University of Law, Hyderabad
Asmita Resource Centre for Women, Secunderabad
CANADA "Told with unusual candor and its message of survival -- spiritual and psychological -- under almost impossible conditions is one of hope for all of us."
Peter Desbarats, Author, Playwright
(Why did the government kill the Somalia inquiry? Peter Desbarats Somalia Cover-Up: A Commissioner's Journal, McClelland & Stewart)
Journalist and Educator, London, Ont
London, Canada "Actor and columnist, the irrepressible D’Haene('s) ....book contains much that is unexpectedly enjoyable, thanks to his ironic sense of humor, lively writing style and the upbeat outlook on life he has achieved in recent years. D’Haene has many cards up his sleeves with which he tantalizes the reader into being unable to put the book down."
Patricia Black, Arts Reviewer
Scene Magazine, London, Ontario, Canada.
USA "The autobiographical account of one man’s journey to spiritual, emotional and physical freedom is at the heart of Father’s Touch.... But this book is also about hope, courage and determination....a very well written memoir filled with a myriad of emotion that ranges from despair to hope and then back again, only to finally triumph in the end."Denise M. Clark, Author (A Man's War) and Book Reviewer
[email protected]
http://www.denisemclark.com
CANADA "An evocative tale that cuts to the quick of human existence....Donald D'Haene infuses moments of great light, and even humour, into his narrative. There isn't anyone who won't be able to relate to this powerful and compelling tale, which combines great insights with a natural story-telling ability."
Judy Liebner, Columnist
The London Free Press
To learn more about D'Haene's book on the Web, visit: www.fatherstouch.com -
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new book helps abused men
by Dogpatch ini am reposting this review for those who might benefit:.
fathers touch.
by donald dhaene .
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morrisamb
Thanks Randy for posting that! I just received this review this morning from India. My book will be available within weeks. If you are interested in just release information/availability info., etc. just leave an email address at: http://www.fatherstouch.com/Order.htm
Book Review
Donald D’Haene, Father’s Touch“…is it possible to forget the past? And if so, is forgetting the healthiest course?”
A powerful testimony of child sexual abuse, Father’s Touch approaches the difficult question of sexual violence in all its complexity. The different layers in which violence is embedded and the indispensability of the painful exercise of peeling off each layer in order to “see” and cope with the impact; the different layers to which the impact of violence penetrates and the gradual realization that the fields of violence and its impact need not be coterminus, that impacts can spin off in completely different, unanticipated directions; the different layers through which memory must plough, in order to capture the full meaning of the experience of violence – make survival and recovery a daunting task: “I have recollections of events, of dreams that never lie, of written evidence that the past did indeed occur…At times these flashbacks paralyze, shock, frighten, or sadden me. Sometimes they make me laugh…The world surrounding me assumes any public disclosure translates into a personal reality. However, in my case nothing could be further from the truth. The more I speak or write about my family history, the more unreal it becomes. Any listener or reader of my words would probably experience an emotional response to my story that I can only envy.” [p. 1]
Subjected to sexual abuse since the age of 3 ½ by a father who abused all his four children, three boys and a girl, and his wife, Donald travels in his account, from believing that “[h]ome is where I am loved and accepted. Mama hugs and talks to me. Papa plays The Game with me. Home is normal to me” [p.49], to reflecting on this “normalcy”: “I don’t know how I came to understand that it was wrong and that I had been changed as a result of The Game when I had never talked about it with anyone.” [p. 52].
If comprehension is the first step in dealing with abuse, coping is the next, since it is rarely possible for victims to remove themselves immediately from an abusive situation. The most painful part of abuse then, is the period when the victim knows s/he is being abused and continues to experience it because there is no instant road to freedom. The difference in impact of the same cycles of violence by the same perpetrator on the different people who experience it is startling, and yet the narration places incontrovertibly before us the entire continuum of traumatic disorder that must result from the practice of violence especially within the patriarchal family: Dissociation or the simultaneous existence of different selves and the firm separation in consciousness of the experiential self from the intellectual one at one end, an aggressive, ironically insensitive authoritarianism on the other end, obesity, nagging interpersonal difficulties, kleptomania, non performance at school and a complete and almost irretrievable erasure of the self between the two extremes.
By isolating the wife and children from any social circle, by seeking the support and sanction of religious elders in the community for this control, either actively through the preaching of ideologies of forgiveness, or passively through silence and/or inaction, by drawing support from the justice delivery system just by virtue of being a man [evident here in the complete disconnection between the divorce proceedings and testimonies of abuse rendered during those proceedings] in short through the interweaving of domestic violence with sexual assault, and the total legitimate control – mental and physical – that the perpetrator has over his entire family, he uncovers for us the nuts and bolts of patriarchal systems. Small wonder then that the author Donald D’Haene asks “How can I not be a feminist?” [Personal communication].
The first way of dealing with abuse, they say, is to “speak out”: disclosure as a one time, one shot blowing the lid off abuse, because the law will take charge the moment we speak. Father’s Touch teaches us that disclosure is as multi-layered and multi textured as the violence itself, and the “law” [assuming of course that by that term we mean a secular law] hangs above, barely touching the surface, and even that reluctantly. We learn that the law also “copes” with family violence through dissociation, providing in the process little relief or opportunity for recuperation to survivors! In Donald’s case, the first disclosure was to his mother when he was ten, i.e., six and a half years after he began to be abused. The earliest disclosure outside the immediate family was soon after, when his older brother Ronnie told a doctor. The doctor replied: “You’re probably going to turn into a homosexual. Just be careful and don’t turn into a molester. It happens quite frequently,” and sent him home with his abuser and did nothing further.” [p.78]. Then Ronnie confides in the Elders of the religious community. “Their reaction: a mix of detachment, curiosity, and confirmation.” [pp.105-106]. Over a period of nine years approximately thirty people had been told about the abuse, including policemen, judges, attorneys, physicians and the Church Elders. And yet, when the survivors decided to press charges of assault, the Crown Attorney failed miserably in framing the charges accurately.
Through this entire period however, the dogged pursuit of stability was possible because of the conviction that freedom is not impossible to find, and the determination to find it: “We are united on a mission: we want our mother free of her jailor. Her liberation from captivity takes on more importance than our own freedom. The roles of parent and child are forever reversed. At fifteen, I am counselor, caretaker, therapist, and tower of strength for my mother who is forty-one…So in 1976, it was Ronny and I, at the ages of 18 and 15, who convinced our mother to leave her tormentor and who sought out temporary lodging for the five of us” [p. 144].
There are larger questions that must be addressed in the course of growing up. How do we forge a secular community of support? What expectations do we place on it? What are the ways in which we can negotiate with the different individuals in this community without undermining our self-esteem? How do we begin to reckon with our own sexuality and sexual orientation in positive terms, not binding them down to the sexual abuse/assault, so far our only knowledge of sex. How can we carve out a space for spirituality and belief within this community, while recognizing that even religion can falter? In Donald’s words, “will any of us find god, love and peace?” [p.188]
There are three levels of narration in the book – chronologically, and three levels of reflection. The narration of the journey through childhood and into adulthood to Maurice is the primary one. Within this, the recounting of that journey with therapist, Wilf and the reflection on sessions with Wilf. This book foregrounds the fact that anyone concerned with the impact of violence, must think through the critical issues of recovery and the return of faith. And both of these are only possible through disclosure, the courage of conviction, the creation of a community of support, and criminal prosecution -- a will to act simultaneously and with determination on the home and the world, radically transforming both in the process.
An amazing and deeply moving testimony of survival, faith and courage, Father's Touch reinscribes in positive, empowering ways, the meaning of human relationships and social responsibility.
Kalpana Kannabiran
Reviewer for Biblio: A Review of Books, New Delhi, India
Co-author, De-Eroticizing Assault: Essays on Modesty, Honour and Power, Calcutta: Stree, 2002.
Associate Professor, NALSAR University of Law, Hyderabad
Asmita Resource Centre for Women, Secunderabad -
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HEY, anyone from Canada?
by Parsnips inhi, i'm a new member and i am trying to find people that i might know, or have something in common with.
if you are from canada, tell me from where....it would be funny to find someone i know or who has been to the same assemblies as me.
by the way, im disfellowshipped, in case anyone was wondering.
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morrisamb
cambridge, you're like neighbours to this Londoner...Ever been to the Aylmer congregation?