Moxy

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Posts by Moxy

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  34

  J.W's gonna see Harry P ?

  by wheelwithinwheel in

  1. jw
  2. friends

  harry potter is getting great reviews.

  looks pretty satanic!

  how many witnesses are gonna go see the movie?

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  Moxy

  however, you can be sure that more will be allowed to see HP than wouldve been allowed to see a similar movie even 10 years ago.

  mox
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  29

  some 2001 year figures reported on wol

  by expatbrit in

  1. jw
  2. friends

  not sure of the accuracy: http://www.witnessesonline.com/cgi-bin/cgiwrap/witnessesonline/ultimatebb.cgi?ubb=get_topic&f=5&t=000129

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  Moxy

  oh please. the UN fallout? whatever. the numbers would have been HIGHER since august because of 9/11. the effects of UN events will be negligible on world numbers.

  but really, these numbers are abysmal. they are lower than statistical predictions. note the increase of population in the entire world is about 1.3%, almost exactly the same as the increase in peak here.

  the number of 'drops' (ie baptisms minus increase minus 1% death rate) would be nearly the highest ever. this number is extremely important. it has skyrocketed in the last 5 years. think about what this means. mathematically, as baptisms go up, drops go up. as baptisms go down, drops go down. the more people there are coming in, the more there are available to go out. but what we have here is a decreasing number coming in, and an increasing number going out. more than just stagnancy, this shows a serious backlash. assuming these numbers are accurate, heres the updated chart. see for yourself:
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  12

  "Who Wrote The Bible?"

  by Grout in

  1. watchtower
  2. bible

  the book "who wrote the bible?

  " by richard friedman is the best single source i've found for explaining the origins of the torah.

  the "documentary hypothesis", now almost universally accepted, posits that the "five books of moses" were in fact written by at least four people as late as the return from exile.

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  Moxy

  counter-arguments are generally along the lines of admitting that there were multiple sources but that the composition was inspired, altho it retains the evidence of distinct sources, and then proceeding to use awkward explanations to tie up the inter-document contradictions.

  how 'convincing' you find those is a subjective matter.

  mox
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  589

  MAJOR UN/WTS NEWS- UN LETTER & 1992 Press R...

  by hawkaw in

  1. watchtower
  2. scandals

  as of 6:02 pm last night i received a facsimile from paul hoeffel at the un on the wts.. he gave me 3 of the 4 things i requested in two paragraphs.. i have sent a scanned version to steve bates and someone else.. i sent it to kent and randy.

  and kent and randy have posted the official united nations letter on their web sites.. here is the letter - put your cursor on the image and then right click on your mouse and hit "save image" to your computer.. .

  after you look at kent's web site and you people still think this it is a fake letter, phone paul hoeffel yourself at (212) 963-8070.. hawk

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  Moxy

  ma: afaict, it can vote at policy-setting conferences. obviously there are many different kinds of UN-related votes. we probably hear most often about the votes of the general assembly, which is a totally different matter. the coalition of NGOs object to the vatican having a voice in policy, voting according to its views on for example, family planning, considered widely to be very backward. NGOs do not have this voice.

  mox
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  17

  Bizarre Urban Myth...have you heard it?

  by Preston in

  1. jw
  2. friends

  i remember a couple of years ago when i was out in field service i heard a story (haven't we all) about a district convention in california where the speaker was invited to give a talk, and as he was standing before the platform, he unexpectedly began to tell a slurry of sex jokes, profanities, and stories about his sex life.

  everyone in attendance was shocked, and after he was removed from speaking, an elder had to inform the audience that what happened was completely unexpected and uncalled for.

  being that i was a jw at the time i had no use for critical thinking, so i thought every word of it was true.

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  Moxy

  judith! i heard that one too! id forgotten all about it during previous urban legend threads. in the version i heard, the brother just playfully flicked his finger at the dog and was so shocked that dog up and died, he stuffed it into his bag before the householder returned (from getting money for the mags i think) and excused himself shamefully, only to confess his crime on the RV the next week.

  ive also mentioned the one a couple times about the pioneer sisters that bought a rolls royce for $50 from a wife selling off possessions from her cheating husband. this is a legend that exists outside the JWs too and comes in many different variants.

  mox
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  12

  Jehovah raised a Cain

  by unclebruce in

  1. jw
  2. friends

  the story of cain and abel is as old as the hills and well known to most on this board.

  as jehovah's witnesses we swallowed the narrow adventist line and the regular brain numbing sessions never allowed free headspace to think critically about what this bible story is really saying.

  recently i got into a discussion with a neighbour about the curse of cain (neville said he always asked bible toting door knockers where cain got his wife from .. easy .. the land of noddy ;).

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  Moxy

  thx ub, i got that.

  i also value the literary analysis of the bible in its own merit. it really, truly is quite an excellent collection of ancient literature once one takes it for what it is, something i had never had the opportunity to do until recently.

  so when i ask questions about oddities in genesis, its not to poke fun at inerrantists so much as to try and dig into the meanings the authors originally put into the stories that have been all but irrecovably lost under millenia of pious and anti-intellectualist redaction and interpretation.
  mox
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  589

  MAJOR UN/WTS NEWS- UN LETTER & 1992 Press R...

  by hawkaw in

  1. watchtower
  2. scandals

  as of 6:02 pm last night i received a facsimile from paul hoeffel at the un on the wts.. he gave me 3 of the 4 things i requested in two paragraphs.. i have sent a scanned version to steve bates and someone else.. i sent it to kent and randy.

  and kent and randy have posted the official united nations letter on their web sites.. here is the letter - put your cursor on the image and then right click on your mouse and hit "save image" to your computer.. .

  after you look at kent's web site and you people still think this it is a fake letter, phone paul hoeffel yourself at (212) 963-8070.. hawk

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  Moxy

  the vaticans status with the UN is as a 'nonmember state observer'

  it participates and votes, like a member, and unlike an NGO. this is what the NGO coalition in question is objecting to.

  mox
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  20

  Michael Jackson comments in TV Guide

  by Dogpatch in

  1. jw
  2. friends

  michael jackson still claims to be a jw.

  http://www.freeminds.org/african/african.htm.

  randy

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  Moxy

  well i wouldnt trust jackson's understanding of his own standing too much. it certainly doesnt seem he has ever been DA'd or DF'd so if he still wants to call himself a JW, well who cares?

  and the pioneer monthly quota certainly WAS 90 hours until 1999. the yearly quota was 1000, and the disparity is chalked up to vacation and sickness, an allowance that was not built into the new 70/840 quota.

  mox
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  12

  Jehovah raised a Cain

  by unclebruce in

  1. jw
  2. friends

  the story of cain and abel is as old as the hills and well known to most on this board.

  as jehovah's witnesses we swallowed the narrow adventist line and the regular brain numbing sessions never allowed free headspace to think critically about what this bible story is really saying.

  recently i got into a discussion with a neighbour about the curse of cain (neville said he always asked bible toting door knockers where cain got his wife from .. easy .. the land of noddy ;).

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  Moxy

  good discussion ub. the WT does indeed speculate about what unwritten underlying causes may have been at work here, as they have to in order to maintain jehovahs right to do these odd things. but they are just that, unwritten and speculative. literary critics see this story for just what it appears to be, as ub has explained, a story of an incommensurate god and father.

  the post-mortem dialogue between cain and jehovah is among the most peculiar in the bible. what was cain worried about? being a wanderer and a fugitive from what? there were a total of 2 other people on the planet. and were told that tilling the land was already hard for them. theyd already been booted out of the garden where jehovah cared for them. what was going to be any worse in his new situation? and why in the world was he worried about being killed? considering that the very first murder had only just taken place, he seems to have become quite accustomed to the idea of rivalry and violence between people. jehovah appears to accept cain's assessment of his chances on the outside. why does he provide the sign for cain? he seems to do pretty well on the outside, has a family and builds a city. why was he treated so harshly for no apparent reason when he was trying to make an offering to jehovah but then he when commits about the most universally hated crimes, fratricide, he is given a relatively light punishment by the standards of any lawcode past or present? if jehovah could see the hate building in cain so clearly, mightn't he have taken a second to mention it to someone BESIDES cain? abel perhaps?

  mox
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  4

  What the? I never realized this was in da bible

  by bboyneko in

  1. watchtower
  2. bible

  i never remember being taught about this scripture before...when jesus was crucified zombies starting walking around?

  and an event as amazing as a couple hunder dead people haunting the streets of jerusalem only merits a one sentence description?.

  .. http://bible.gospelcom.net/bible?passage=matt+27:51-53&language=english&version=niv&showfn=off

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  Moxy

  Some translation either have a footnote in their margin stating this fact or they delete the verse altogether like the NWT.

  what? NWT does neither. they do that parenthetical thing ItsJustMe said to make it into exhumed corpses rather than resurrections. incredibly awkward that. an older WT actually discussed this a bit saying maybe it was spurious, maybe it has the corpse meaning, we dont know for sure. but since then they have stuck to the corpse meaning with no reservations. this corpse interpretation is also infamous for having been due in part to the translation of spiritist Johannes Greber.

  mox