That is too cool bigmac! xD Can i get an Amen Buddy Jebus?
Tralfamadorian
JoinedPosts by Tralfamadorian
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My Husband gave an elder the "finger" yesterday
by Found Sheep indave the elder is actually a nice guy, he fixed the walls of our house, took six months!!!!.
anyway my ,never been a jw husband, was driving home and saw him and all the pain that i have gone through went through his head and he though what right did this guy have?
he spent six months comming to our house as he pleased and then to turn around and shunn my wife!!!!.
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My Husband gave an elder the "finger" yesterday
by Found Sheep indave the elder is actually a nice guy, he fixed the walls of our house, took six months!!!!.
anyway my ,never been a jw husband, was driving home and saw him and all the pain that i have gone through went through his head and he though what right did this guy have?
he spent six months comming to our house as he pleased and then to turn around and shunn my wife!!!!.
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Tralfamadorian
yeah, i've thought of that many times too. but i'd hate to co-sign their belief that they're being persecuted 'for righteousness sake'
how about FFS? lulz!
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Were there 2 witnesses when you were DFd?
by FatFreek 2005 inof the some 70,000 disfellowshippings each year (some 1% of the membership) most were for sexual misconduct.
of these, i think i'm safe to say that very few were witnessed by a third party.
that means that both participants had to voluntarily confess in order to satisfy their 2-witness rule.. know of any that didn't meet this rule?.
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Tralfamadorian
Actually, I confessed to my heinous crime of cigarette smoking on my own when they called the meeting. I guess that's what happens to honest people who tell the truth and want help. They get DF'd while the lying s.o.b's run rampant like wolves.
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I'm scared sometimes that the WTBTS might be right about everything.
by Chemical Emotions ini wake up thinking: what if my boyfriend and i die a terrifying death during armageddon?
with no hope of any life afterwards?.
do any of you ever feel that way?.
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Tralfamadorian
@godrulz: With all due respect, how is your method of sharing your personal beliefs any different than the WT organization? Just because the WT is 'dead wrong,' in your words, doesn't make the Bible wrong? How is your belief any more valid than the Witnesses? Because you believe? Because the bible says so?
Just because some of the scriptures stand up to reason and logic, does it go without saying that the whole body of it's writings are accurate then? The bible is such a self-contradicting, cluster-f*** collection of writings that anybody could take anything from it and form any religion they wanted and make it seem true! Sometimes the best place to hide a lie is sandwiched conveniently between a couple truths!
Bear in mind that the most commonly used collection of scripture was hand picked at the Nicean council by a bunch of religionists and politicians who needed to gain the upper hand and apply damage control over civil unrest that was spiraling out of control. It was and always has been, a political move to control the mass.
"Religion is what keeps the poor man from murdering the rich." -Napoleon Bonaparte
The only thing you seem to be saying is, "..Because my belief is right and yours [the WT] is wrong." You'll have to do better than that my friend.
@Diest: Right on, right on brother! Can I get an Amen?
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I'm scared sometimes that the WTBTS might be right about everything.
by Chemical Emotions ini wake up thinking: what if my boyfriend and i die a terrifying death during armageddon?
with no hope of any life afterwards?.
do any of you ever feel that way?.
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Tralfamadorian
I wake up thinking: What if my boyfriend and I die a terrifying death during Armageddon? With no hope of any life afterwards?
Do any of you ever feel that way?
i used to worry all the time. eventually, the more exposure i got to "The World" the more absurd the whole idea seemed to me. Exposure has that effect. Now that you're out of it, you have other things from which to frame a point of reference to many of your questions. Not to mention the fact that you're now free to use your God-given common sense if you will.
Now you're free to employ actual logic to any given situation instead of the fear provoking pseudo-logic and rhetoric they use to manipulate people.
Ask yourself there are any logical grounds to substantiate any of these claims:
1. A virgin birth.
2. Four men and four women building an ark, putting two of each species [and six in some cases] on it and surviving a global flood.
In the first place, even if it were only two of each local species or even root species, where did they store all the food all those animals would require during the entire fourty days plus time for the water to recede? The food alone would require much more space than the animals!
3. A man using a rod and god given powers to split the red sea apart and walking across dry land.
4. The dead being brought back to life. Why is it that only religion has reported things like this? No history I've ever read makes any such claims.
Even if we were to assume for the moment that there was an actual ressurection, say, of Lazarus, why weren't the obvious questions being asked: So Lazarus, what did you see when you were dead? Was it one big nothing? Was it like sleeping? Did you see loved ones? Those are the logical and also reactive questions people would ask after getting over their initial shock.
While we're on the topic of resurrection how about some of the odd things surrounding Jesus' resurrection? The stone was rolled away and there was no body in the tomb. When Jesus approached Mary Magdalene, and later others, they mistook him for a gardener. If he was resurrected in a different body, where did the old body go?
The witnesses in one of their books, state the incredulity of the Hindu religion for thinking the Ganges river sprung from the big toe of one of their gods. How is it that this is absurd, but an ark, a virgin birth and resurrection aren't just as absurd?
Starting asking the questions your mind has been dying to ask the elders [but which you wouldn't dare!], and then do some research. Make use of both secular and religious material. Not just the JW or Christian religions, but other religions as well.
The Jehovah's Witnesses religion is a huge sinkhole to attract very frightened people. And for persons like myself, who were more or less born into it, it breeds very frightened people.
Organizations such as this set their watch and warrant on the dependability and predictability of the eventual death of all human beings. One generations comes, another one goes. So, so easy to play bait and switch with doctrine when you can count on no one being around to remember anything they choose to hide.
One of the oft used arguments they use is the apparent lack of logic that humans desire youth and everlasting life but should not receive it. Wow, you mean our desires alone are sufficient to support an argument for a paradise earth where no one grows old and dies?
Ask yourself this for a new twist on it: How is it either reasonable or logical to assume that the possession of the faculties of logic and reason make us any more relevant than any other thing in existence? What is there to substantiate that? If you think about it in that light, you can see just how subjective the very idea is. It's based on the purely subjective human experience.
Your faith should never rob you of living a full life in the here and now based upon promises of something better [or worse!] in an afterlife.
At this point in my life, my religion, if you can call it that is based purely on the blueprint provided by Jesus for how a human being might life a meaningful life.
Love thy neighbor as thyself. Everything else is mere commentary.
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Update on my Uncle.
by LouBelle init is so difficult to watch someone you love die slowly.
my uncle has terminal prostate cancer - that is how it started and developed from there to invade the bladder, urinary tract, urethra.
the doctors could not operate on him as he would more than likely die on the operating table.. he chose to fight.
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Tralfamadorian
Also - let those that you care and love for know that you care and love them - all the time. Don't wait for special occassions or disaster to show your feelings.
Agreed. Even though I'm disfellowshipped, I shoot an email to my mom and sister to say "I love you." They can do with it what they will. I pray that you and your uncle can make the most of the remaining time and for you to both experience a spirit of peace.
Blessings to you both.
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Newbie want's to say hi
by Adso injust wanted to say hi and thanks to everyone that has posted their stories and comments.
i was df'ed a few months ago now and reading this forum has helped out heaps.
based on that i wanted to contribute in the hope that my experiences resonate with someone and help with the healing proccess the way it's helped me.
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Tralfamadorian
The P.O. asked me if I was sorry to Jehovah. I replied that Jehovah's sins towards me and mankind were far greater than anything I've done to him so no. As far as I see it if nothing came into existance except through Jehovah then that includes wickedness. If looks could kill the flesh would have melted off my bones. Even the other 2 elders soiled themselves at that point.
HOLY EFFING SNICKERDOODLES! ROTFLMAO!!
Bravo! Well played my friend, well played!
You know, if viewed from an observant and reasonable viewpoint, it is obvious that the Old Testament God is no older than 3-5 years old emotionally. And a sadistic-pulls-wings-off-flies emotionally to boot!
Is it possible that we're all joys toys that God and Satan feud over? When you look around the world, it sure seems that way.
Reminds me of this song: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=68QbPnGQNFA&feature=related
The song itself reminds me of Lord of the Flies.
I remember my disfellowshipping meeting. Some sister had snitched on me when she saw me smoking apparently. I was asked if I had the conviction to stop smoking. I said, "That's the problem. I have conviction, but I'm afaid that I'll get tempted and give in and smoke. I guess that's not conviction is it?" I went on to ask, "If I were tempted, could I be free to call you at your home day or night and ask for help to not give in?" Anyhow, long story short, I was soon asked to leave the room so they could discuss the matter amongst themselves. I wish I could have been a fly on the wall in that room. Voices were raised and one elder even shouted. Apparently all three were not in agreement. I was well-loved in that congregation. When I made comments I didn't recite my answers by rote. I added my own insight and my own metaphors. There were times when there was audible shuffling as people turned around to look at me. It was unsettling and a bit embarrassing. Needless to say, one elder didn't like the influence I had in the congregation. He obviously threw technicalities at the other two about my lack of conviction even though I had asked for help in the same sentence and I was disfellowshipped that evening.
I tried getting reinstated several times but found it too difficult to sit through meetings where I had to edure the discomfort of being shunned. Before I'd been disfellowshipped, I had always been in the habit of sitting in the front row, right side. I continued to do so until an elder approached me and requested that I arrive during the opening song, sit in the rear and leave after the closing prayer unless I needed personal literature. Yeah...sit in the 'back of the bus' to show how ashamed I am and to demonstrate that contrite attitude visibly to the whole congregation and to avoid making them uncomfortable. I almost felt sorry for the poor elder who told me this. He looked ashamed and humiliated and had apparently been instructed to tell me this from the elder that was adamant that I be disfellowshipped. That's just my guess, but I'm almost certain of it. Who else would have had it in for me? It's all a part of life's colorful pageantry, I guess.
After a couple years, I went to the Mormons. They are very quick to get you baptized so I was stunned when they asked me if I wanted to get baptized, based on a study of three very small booklets. I said yes. After that event, I delved deeper into their meatier doctrine and was disgusted by some of what I saw and read. I became an inactive 'Jack Mormon' Some years later I began studying Mystic Christianity. More years passsed and out of a fear-based incident I ran back to the Mormon church. Funny [peculiar, not haha ¬_¬ ] how it's always fear that makes us run back to the center of the flock isn't it? The ward Bishop asked me how I felt about receiving a calling to teach. I had to honestly tell him that I couldn't do such a thing because it would require that I teaching things I don't agree with and I wasn't going to lie. I told him of my mystic leanings and how, although the Mystic Fellowship had no issue with me being a Mormon, the Mormons would indeed eventually have issue with Mystic leanings. However, I was not disfellowshipped. The Mormons do disfellowship, but it's not the same. They don't shun, they just have a special home teacher spend extra time studying with you. They give you extra care, etc and you're not allowed to take communion. I'm not advertising the Mormons as I see them as just another form of control, but I will say they got a lot better going on than the witnesses do. They have age appropriate bible schools and sunday school. Why cant the witnesses do that? Why expect toddlers and little kids to sit through an hour of boring speech they don't understand with nothing to look forward to? At least the Mormon kids can look forward to coloring bible pictures after communion. And the Mormons don't have two hemerroids apiece when their kids make noise during the meetings. Kid's aren't slapped for turning around and waving at the kid sitting behind them, they aren't taken to the bathroom or outside to be spanked either. Little toddlers are allowed to waddle up and down aisles briefly. This is all normal for them and most of their kids are well behaved in spite of this liberty. Jeez Witnesses, get a clue from your brother borganization! You might learn something about how a human being can be trusted to be a human being!
Nowadays I'm not in a religion. The closer I get to a church, the further from God I seem to get. If God's Kingdom is no part of the world as Jesus says, then it should, in no way, become a corporate entity like the Witnesses, Mormons and others do. I personally have found more actual spirituality in 12 step meetings!
That being said, here is my sum up, meant to be taken totally without seriousness and with the humor intended:
"I think God is just slightly insane. We're all just the voices in his head he thinks to keep himself company. Cuz he needs a good woman to have a nice poke with once in awhile. That's okay. I'm sure he has matters 'in hand.' Pun intended. We're all just his wretched little knuckle children."
Cheers! And thanks for sharing your story. :)
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Did you fake underlining the WT?
by shepherd ini read on another topic " i remember when i used to carry microphones years ago in the jw cult- only about 30 % had their wt's pre-studied, the rest just wing it i truly believe" and it reminded me that people will assume you are not familiar with the material if you have not underlined, and that there will always be those who observe the lack of ink and consider you must be unprepared (and so 'weaker' than them).. many times i used to fake prestudy just for that reason.
its easy to do, underline a random sentence or 2 in each paragraph or the sited scripture.
you can wizz through an entire article in 3 minutes....did anyone else do that?.
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Tralfamadorian
No. I actually studied my watchtower, Kingdom Service and book study books. I wrote notations in the margins, etc. I did this both before I got disfellowshipped and then after when I was trying to get reinstated.
I had very little world exposure and took it for granted that the elders were concerned that I study the material for my spiritual welfare and as evidence that I was making a true effort to repent. What a trememdous relief that people were so concerned for my welfare that they would go so far as to do my thinking for me! How heartwarming that I could trade common sense and personal accountability for Orwellian 'Truthspeak'
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i need to know if jehovahs witnesses are actually told to ....
by looloo incompletly ignore disfellowshipped children and never speak at all to them , also what about the children of the disfellowshipped children that are growing up unaware of the "truth " ?
im thinking of writing to my inlaws who have never bothered with our child for two and a half years to tell them to just walk on by if they see us as it would confuse her if they saw us and acted as though nothing has happened .
then they will be good jws and obediant to the watchtower and not blame us for not letting them see her which is what they lie and tell people !.
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Tralfamadorian
I was disfellowshipped sometime around 1996 or 97. At the time, no congregation member was allowed to speak to you except for immediate family members. At any rate, my mom and sister talked to me on the phone regularly. I'm assuming this stricter chokehold was instituted within the last 5 or so years since I got an email from my mom more or less stating the new policy and pretty much just saying it's because 'we're so close to the end now,' etc, ad nauseum.
A year later, she called me and asked me to fly out there to stay for a month. My sister paid for the airfare. I guess my mom was having problems withdrawing from a medication and my sister needed help to look after her since she was emotionally exhuasted. I asked my mom why she chose to associate with me when I was there. She told me she felt I was not disfellowshipped by Jehovah. When I made it clear during one of our debates that I had no intention of returning to the kindom hall, I could tell by the end of the visit that that was it. Her last words were, "I'll send you an email." I could see the diplomatic lie in her face.
I was cut off again. Naturally, I felt rather used as a babysitter for my mentally ill mom. I have bi-polar disorder and problems of my own and resented that I would be 'used' as a babysitter to give my sister a break from my moms mental health dramas.
A year ago she contacted me [my mom] to let me know she had breast cancer again. We talked for a half hour. She dropped a few 'kingdom' hints, but didn't press it. Then no more contact. I sent an email about a year later, not expecting a reply. Hey, if I contact her, she can't be blamed, right? The next day, she'd set up a facebook profile, listed me as her daughter and had friended me and another disfellowshipped person on my friends list I'd grown up with [he's gay]. The next day she was gone, vanished like a fart in the wind. Me and the friend were a bit puzzled, but we shrugged it off. I'm sure she probably told my sister and was warned against having a facebook...or else. etc...ad nauseum.
I know my mom hates this. I hate it. I was disfellowshipped for smoking and my stepfather is a member in good standing although for the past 15 years we have tried with the elders, off and on, to get some justice for the fact that he sexually abused me and my three sisters. Another sister finally came out about him sexually abusing her too. Eventually, she gave up pressing it as the resistence and 'Star Chamber' tactics the elders use, what with their antiquated tribunals opened up, traumatized her all over again. She, my sisters and myself were asked to send the elders at his congregation letters of testimony. To the best of my knowledge, nothing else further was done. They were afraid to press it further 'as he was depressed' at the time.
Whatever. Give me a break!
I recall the third or so time I tried to get the matter looked into. [My stepfather was a congregation hopper, trying to evade discipline and the elders too indifferent to care or trace and track him down] I explained the situation to the PO of the congregation he was involved with and the first question he asked me was "And just how long ago did this happen?" Give me a break! How irrelavent! How about the years of therapy I've been involved with to heal? Is there a statute of limitations within the organization now? How about my sanity? It has no statute of limitations!
I had even tried on a previous occasion to write Bethel soon after I was disfellowshipped, explaining the situation and my stress. The letter I got back sidestepped the abuse and tried to focus my attention on 'regaining my standing with Jehovah and the congregation' Unbelievable!
My stepfather has a granddaughter who's about 5 years old now, who apparently he's so crazy about. That's why the other sister who came out about all of it, approached the elders, my mom and sister and I. Out of concern for the little girl. After the elders didn't give any of us any update on the situation, I approached the police in my city. Apparently it's a jurisdictional thing. So since I have no idea where his address is, there is little I can do at this point to help the little girl. What a f*ck story!
I realize most of this doesn't actually address your question, but once I started typing, my mind and fingers just did as they would. Since I'm 'out of the loop' now, I don't know what, if anything further, they've added to their policy. I can say I'm extremely grateful to just be away from there. I consider it nothing short of a miracle that I'm alive [haven't offed myself] and that I've crawled out of there as well as I have. I was raised from the age of 2 as a witness, which means a lot of what I learned was hard wired into my young, formative body and mind. It's a hard habit to break. And it is a habit. When I was disfellowshipped, at the time the most logical move was to join the Mormons. It was a safe-feeling transition at the time. "The Witnesses preach from door to door, the Mormons preach door to door. The Witnesses don't believe in the trinity, the Mormons don't believe in the trinity." Etc...ad nauseum.
Thanks for letting me rant and again, I'm sorry if much of this wasn't awfully helpful.
P.S. Can anyone please point me to any posts that explain how to use the posting features? I'm used to phpBB formatting and apprently Firefox wont let me use some features like quoting the original poster. Also, why are there so many restrictions on posting. Is the flamer/troller situation that bad here or what?
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2011 District Convention "Let Us Be Bored and Confused Into Obedience"
by ranmac inthis has already been discussed but i need to vent.. i just spent the most painful weekend of my life sitting thru this years dc.
what an unbelievably pointless, soulless and demeaning spectacle the assemblies are.
the three days were a blur of monotanous droning and brainwashing.
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Tralfamadorian
[quote="godrulz"]I have never been a JW and heard GB Gerrit Losch give a poor lecture (a verse about the Satanic Antichrist in Rev. 6 was applied to Jesus?!) on the last day.[/quote]
Wait, what? Can you elaborate on this a bit more please? Thanks.