Posts by Miles3

32

"Disobedience is very costly"

by TOTH in

wow, i had some words with my father in law.

over the years i have always had such a profound respect for him because he used to speak from the heart and used the bible to express his view, but lately he has become more and more "wt-ish" with his comments.

my wife has been suffering from severe pain for years due to injuries suffered at the hands of her 1st husband.

Miles3

Well, as the wedding drew near my wife's dad decided that her marrying this doosh was not a good idea and he tried to break them up. He went so far as to beat her severely with a belt all over every inch of her body.

he said that there is no such thing as mental illness. All crazy people are possessed by demons.

You can't fix crazy.

As for the beating, seems like there was a reason your wife chose to marry an abusive first husband, and it's great she chose wiser with you.

I support Quandry's advice, when you're stuck associating with crazy and abusive whackos, life looks bleak whichever way you look and you can never imagine for you, your wife and your kids to ever get better. Then when for a reason or another you get out of the hole you're stuck in, your view of life completely changes and so does that of your family members. Especially with the intense pain your wife has, that's to strong for medication to have a notable effect, a brighter outlook and not being brought back to depressing situation does wonder. Hospitals notice significant decrease in pain medication and patients reporting less pain when engaging in clown and comedy activities, and I can confirm from personnal experience (living with crazy, then getting out is also something I can confirm ;) ).

I really hope you can get out, especially since the situation weights on you. Sometimes, even though you love the people (talking about your in-laws), they're really ruinning the life of anyone close by, and only having nobody around to complain to will give them the kick in the butt that makes them realise they ought to get a fricking life.

13

Generation - one more time

by johnnyc in

sorry guys.

i know i have brought this up before (a couple years ago), but my mother and i were talking (she is a ultra-jw) about the wt's generation, and she told me that the wt has never come out and said they took back the generation "timeframe" from 1914. she said they only changed who it was referring to - but nothing has changed on the fact within a generation from 1914 the end has to come.

well, i went back to the 1995 article, and really didnt see where the timeframe was explicitly changed.

Miles3

johnnyc, I don't know if it's what you're looking for, but for Russel the genaration started in 1874, not 1914. It was supposed to end in 1914. So they definitely changed the reference frame.

238

Active JW understands flaws in WTS doctrine but believes in the Bible

by flamegrilled in

perhaps this is a common topic for newbies on the site, but i have browsed for a while and not seen this exactly answered.. as an active jw who understands the flaws in wts doctrine, but believes in the bible, how do i identify a form of worship that meets all the criterea:.

1) by this all will know you are my disciples if you have love among yourselves (john 13:35).

sure i know that not all jws do this, and that people from other religions or non-religious people do this also, but as an official doctrine jws will not kill one another in war, and in general there is a genuine effort to exercise "agape" love not widely found in the world at large.. 2) preach the good news.

Miles3

Forgot about hell: yes, it's call Purgatory. People that sinned, but aren't irremediably wicked can spend some quality time in Purgatory, then they can be admitted to Heaven if they've been good kids. I'd take that against eternal destruction any day! Especially since innocents don't go to Hell, whereas innocents are killed by Jehovah at Har-Maguedon.

238

Active JW understands flaws in WTS doctrine but believes in the Bible

by flamegrilled in

perhaps this is a common topic for newbies on the site, but i have browsed for a while and not seen this exactly answered.. as an active jw who understands the flaws in wts doctrine, but believes in the bible, how do i identify a form of worship that meets all the criterea:.

1) by this all will know you are my disciples if you have love among yourselves (john 13:35).

sure i know that not all jws do this, and that people from other religions or non-religious people do this also, but as an official doctrine jws will not kill one another in war, and in general there is a genuine effort to exercise "agape" love not widely found in the world at large.. 2) preach the good news.

Miles3

I happen to have chosen the three points raised in my opening post, since it seems to me that these are clear requirements that ought to be easy to identify in any individual or group. Are they the most important? I'm not saying that. I don't know. But they at least appear not to be trivial, so I chose to start with those. Shooting down JWs on those or other issues doesn't really help address the initial question.

You have not chosen those 3 points, the Watchtower has chosen them for you, which is apparent in the way you frame them and disregard all relevant information that shows the Watchtower doesn't even fit those points when coming from the scriptural angle instead of the publications angle. That's why you don't answer the points other people raise when they're issues your experience in the Watchtower has taught you to avoid, because they do show the Watchtower at fault. We've been through that phase too, so it's easy for us to recognise when the indoctrination kicks in - it did for us, even when we were assuring the person we were talking to of our utmost sincerity and desire to know the truth. I'm not discrediting whatever you could say, I'm just pointing that the way your frame some questions and disregard evidence is typical of a mind that's still in. It gets better though, so don't loose hope.

"Shooting JWs" on those issues does address the question, since you can't answer those unless you show why they're framed that way by the Watchtower, and why the Watchtower is non scriptural both in the way it presents the questions and the actions it says purportedly validates the Watchtower.

One thing that I would say in general from my research is I've learned that a lot of things have been recorded about ancient history, and the level of evidence for the "facts"asserted varies wildly. It's really important to peel off the layers and substantiate everything. The number of times I've checked out the "facts" and found that they led to suposition and conjecture is just astounding.

That's the general arguments from creationnists. All it shows is that those using the argument didn't bother ressearching the facts that would have contradicted their views, and only picked up (usually through a misunderstanding of the other point of view, or a misquotation) whatever could be construed as "it's a matter of interpretation". The presence of man on earth for at least 100 000 years is not a matter of conjecture, same for the impossibility of a biblical deluge, and same for the fact all evidence discovered up to know infirms Bible accounts till at least the 13th century BCE. That's not a matter of interpreting discoveries, it's just that the whole enormous burden of evidence infirms the Bible account. We do know what happened and didn't happen, it's not just a matter of jealous kings erasing the mention of Israelites. Biblical archeologists don't dispute that fact.

Don't let the fact alost everybody here discovered those facts change your opinion of our posts though, it's not because we're aware of what the castle is build on that we can't perfectly know how it's buildt. I can recognise when the mind control kicks in and ones stop at his opinion of the person instead of listening to the arguments themselves... that's Watchtower 101.

Now to go back to your really partial answer of my posts, you can't weasel out of the sword issue, thus recognising the issue is not clear-cut, and keep framing agape love in black and white war/no war. At the time of Jesus, centuries of fending of beasts had already taught humanity you only equip a sword when your opponents are other human beings. That's not opinions, just hard facts - those that relied on swords against animals just didn't make it. Unlike fanatic Jews, Jesus was against using physical violence against the authorities of his time though, and first century Christians did the same. Yet they didn't mind servind in the army, or using swords to defend themselves against bandits. Think about Corneille, why would the Bible not ever mention the fact he had to quit the army? The fact he was serving Cesar didn't enter into consideration, because it was not a problem. There were soldiers among those Jesus preached to (including the Jews), he didn't teach them to leave the army. There were soldiers among the first Christians, yet no letter of Paul tells congregations to expel them.

You are really letting the Watchtower frame the questions for you - it's really evident with agape love. You are not framing them scripturaly.

You didn't answer my points about love, except with the fallacy "we must have had different experiences". Pedophilia treatment is an organisational issue, so are the teaching about rape, abuse between spouses and disfellowshiping.

Just ask yourself: when was the last time I bought some food for a family in need inside the congregation, or give them some cash to pay the bills? (Alternatively, wait till somebody in the congregation doesn't have any money left, and see what financial help the elders are ready to give them with the congregation's money - opposed to what all other churches except the Witnesses do all year round) How often a month do I visit my beloved brothers and sisters that don't attend the meetings regularly anymore? When was the last time I visited sister Faithfull, who is bedridden in a nursing home for the elderly? When a disfellowshiped human being comes to the meeting, do I greet them and treat them in a human manner, or do I unlovingly make myself the accomplice of the mental abuse other Witnesses pour on those disfellowshiped ones? What do I do, at my own level, to not associate with an organisation that closes its heart to the suffering of women and children, and unscripturally protects pedophiles and abusers for the sole purpose of preserving its outward appearance?

As far as point 2, preaching, except showing yourself even more judgemental, you didn't address the issues. Other churches preach, that's how the Mormons, the evangelist, the pentecotists, the adventist all manage to outgrow the Watchtower day after day. They certainly must be doing something right, and God is blessing them!

About the 3rd point, maybe you realised that churches do assemble, thus you're only looking at two point when deciding who follows The Unscriptural Truth According To The Watchtower(C)?

238

Active JW understands flaws in WTS doctrine but believes in the Bible

by flamegrilled in

perhaps this is a common topic for newbies on the site, but i have browsed for a while and not seen this exactly answered.. as an active jw who understands the flaws in wts doctrine, but believes in the bible, how do i identify a form of worship that meets all the criterea:.

1) by this all will know you are my disciples if you have love among yourselves (john 13:35).

sure i know that not all jws do this, and that people from other religions or non-religious people do this also, but as an official doctrine jws will not kill one another in war, and in general there is a genuine effort to exercise "agape" love not widely found in the world at large.. 2) preach the good news.

Miles3

Certain truths are important though. For example I think it would be difficult to get close to God and believe in eternal torment at the same time.

You mean, as if a cult taught that God will soon kill 7 billions people, including innocent children and babies that can't even understand words, even less read, as he did during the flood and at Sodome and Gomhora? And you can't honnestly say it's not the case, because that's exactly what the Watchtower teach - I know many Witnesses that try to delude themseves it's not the case, but the publications do say so, and when confronted they try to change the subject or say we have to trust in Jehovah - even though Jehovah already showed us exaclty what he would do... Thing is, children's right, along with women's right, is a modern invention, and the writers of the Bible certainly didn't have any problems with that. Which explain the treatment of women and childrens in the organisation - a direct consequence of fondamentalism when it comes to the Bible.

Althought hell is a spitefull doctrine, at least you can get out of it after having been punished enough, and innocent kids and babies aren't supposed to end up there. Eternal destruction less so, at least according to the Watchtower interpretation of the Scriptures.

Just hypothetically if someone responded and convincingly demonstrated that it was possible to meet those obligations without the baggage that comes with our current framework then I'd seriously consider a different course.

People can give you answers that conform with your frame of reference, because they do exist even in that context. But you have to realise your first post is basically saying "Hello, I've chosen to disregard 99% of the reliable information out there; along with reality and facts, and I help you can guide me without disturbing my beliefs." People will be nice and try to help you, because that's what people are, nice, but you must admit they'd be more confortable dealing with facts and reality. Basically, you're telling us you believe in the tooth fairy, don't want to debate about its existence, and are looking to another church that also teaches the tooth fairy.

At present I accept that God is capable of preserving His word as he wanted it, despite who established the canon. But I am open to revision on that one if persuasive evidence is presented ot the contrary.

There's pervasive evidence the Bible we have is contradicted by reality. Geology, biology (bats are mammals!), paleontology, biblical archeology (not the beginning of the 20th century biblical archeology by pastors, modern archeology and modern discoveries the Watchtowers never speaks about, because that would open a bag of hurt and destroy their business), and I'm certainly forgetting a lot.

The flood didn't happen, there's no traces of it and civilisations that started before it happened didn't disapear, the animal species wouldn't fit in the arch, no God that taught the Israelites to take care of their animals would have killed billions and billions of animals to punish at most a few thousands sinners.

We have hundreds of sites with human remains dated from up to 100.000 years BCE, along with two other subspecies, and traces of fabrics, potery, inhumations, that predates Adam and are dated with multiple methods and clocks moving at different speeds, yet pointing to the same dates.

Reptiles appeared before birds, contrary to what Genesis says.

There's zero traces of the Israelites in Egypt, nor of their exodus, 3 millions of people camping almost 40 years in the same place in desert leave an awfull amount of traces, yet despite all the excavations we've only showed there wasn't anybody there at the time.

The conquest of Canaan happened at a time where Egypt ruled the land and maintained guarnisons and corresponded with the main cities, yet no mentions of those Egytpian soldiers in the Bible, and no mention of any conquest in the 400 egyptian letters of the time.

David and Salomon might have existed, but they were ruling over a few thousand individuals, and Jerusalem remainded a small village up to 200 years after Salomon's death... Salomon is supposed to have ruled an immense empire, which it is impossible to do without correspondance between the empire and correspondance with the numerous countries the Bible says wanted to see Salomon. We've got records and correspondance from other countries of this period, yet no mention of Salomon, the Hebrew, or anything close to it. And Salomon's empire covers land that was part of other empires at the time, who we've got plenty of remains...

Unlike what the Bible says, the first Israelites worshipped a Yahweh married to a goddess, monotheism appeared late (opposed to the Bible's description of a monotheism that got corrupted by pagan influences over time).

Unlike what the Bible says, Nothern and Southern Israel were most prosperous and at peace under the "bad" kings, and suffered poverty and war under the intransigeant "faithfull" kings like Josias...

Persuasive evidence abounds, reality has an atheist bias. Sorry to burst your bubble, but open any recent archeology, paleontology, biology, etc... book and you'll have all the answers you need - not those you're looking for though. As far as morals go, I'd trust somebody that doesn't allow itself to distort the facts to fits its fancies over any fundamentalist. Just once, try associating with atheists, you'll discover they're far more honnest and have better morals than your current conditionnal friends. Christians are great as well, but unlike atheists it can be harder to find true Christians (I suggest charities for a start).

238

Active JW understands flaws in WTS doctrine but believes in the Bible

by flamegrilled in

perhaps this is a common topic for newbies on the site, but i have browsed for a while and not seen this exactly answered.. as an active jw who understands the flaws in wts doctrine, but believes in the bible, how do i identify a form of worship that meets all the criterea:.

1) by this all will know you are my disciples if you have love among yourselves (john 13:35).

sure i know that not all jws do this, and that people from other religions or non-religious people do this also, but as an official doctrine jws will not kill one another in war, and in general there is a genuine effort to exercise "agape" love not widely found in the world at large.. 2) preach the good news.

Miles3

I'll try to address your questions first, but the vital part is not in those answers.

1) By this all will know you are my disciples if you have love among yourselves (John 13:35). Sure I know that not all JWs do this, and that people from other religions or non-religious people do this also, but as an official doctrine JWs will NOT kill one another in war, and in general there is a genuine effort to exercise "agape" love not widely found in the world at large.

Many religions forbid murder, and more religions than you imagine also condemn going to war. However, if you're just reading the WT publications you're still imagining the Witnesses are one of the only religion that does all of your 3.

I find it interesting that you frame the love issue as going to war or not. That's a doctrinal point, that's an apparence of love, and it's paraded as such by a cult that cares about the outward apparence and deserted Christ teachings. Some have already answered that, and sadly you didn't notice. You raise a doctrinal issue as proof of love, and for that doctrinal issue one could raise other Watchtower doctrinal issues that proves the contrary - the disregard for life (blood issue, doctrinal flip-flops about neutrality, civil service...), the disregard for childrens and women (the protection of pedophiles to protect the apparences, the guilting of raped women, the condomning of domestic rape, the lack of help to those victims when you tell them the need only pray more and trust in Jehovah to feel better), the destruction of families by the shunning doctrine...

As a JW in good standing (pioneer, talks in distric assemblies...) like you, I can assure you the Witnesses are one of the worst group when it's about agape love. That's part of being a high control cult, but you won't realise it before you start to associate with "worldy people". Inscribe yourself into a municipal association, go and help in a charity, check how much good your local churches do in helping the widow and the orphan - you'll find genuinely good and loving people, that don't show agape love only because they have to fill a report at the end of the month.

I've been raised as an outstanding witness by a single mom struggling with 3 kids and not enough money to pay the bills. I can assure you out of the 100+ publishers in our congregation, which where all aware of our financial situation, only one family ever helped us, twice, by bringing us some food (the brother wasn't an elder, and was one of those brothers the elder didn't want to give responsibilities because he didn't have a heart of stone). The elders never gave us anything, the congregation never either. That doesn't happen in Christian churches.

I was a pionner, and in all the congregations I've been I've seen how nobody visits the sick and poor. Disabled sisters never receive visits (unless they're from an elder family that cares for them), and the poor don't get any support. It's like "let them all die, God will recognise its own". On the other hand, I've seen first hand how most "spiritual" brothers and sisters are judgemental and unkind, whether towards worldy people or towards their own.

I've even had an elder tell me I'd never become an elder if I kept spending so much time associating with the rank and file. Shortly after, he was named a Circuit Overseer.

Then I got disabled, and had to stay bedridden for year (still have to). I only get 2 calls a year, coincidentaly just before the CO visit... Nothing else, no phone calls, no letters, no offer for help, no associating, even though they were my "friends" and I've given my whole life for the truth. And that's in the most spiritual congregation you could find (50% regular pioneers), in a foreign field, with most of the elders having done MTS and pionnering, and some moving on later to CO or missionary work.

The Witnesses aren't bad in themselves at all, most were quite good people before, but - like other high-control groups - the cult turns everyone but the independent thinkers into robots.

2) Preach the good news. Sure I know other religions try to an extent, but JWs are known for their preaching. One might disagree with the details of the message but I don't want to get into that here. They do certainly direct attention to God, Jesus and the kingdom.

There you're judging others again, not necessarily because you're a bad person, but because the WT propaganda has been ingrained in you that it feels -wrongly- like part of your personnality. Christian churches certainly "direct attention to God, Jesus and the kingdom". That's what they do, or they wouldn't call themselves Christians. As far as preachings, most churches preach the way the first Christians did, and I'd trust the example of the first century Christians over the personnal teachings of 20th century Rutherford.

The JW way of preaching has more to o with 20th century door-to-door salesmans practices than with anything Jesus ever taught. Picture Jesus coming back to earth at the end of a month and witnessing every one of his disciples forced to give a detail report of the "hours" they spent in the field. Whatever rationalizing you'd try to massage him with (but we need to be organized, we need to have law and order), he'd still throw out the Pharisees out of his church in no time, and go and clean Brooklin.

You know perfectly reports are there because as good businessmens the mens of the Watchtower are aware the Witness need that to go preaching as much as they do. That ministry is not a proof of agape love, neither is the different treatment people give to others in the congregation based on the hours they preach each month. If you want to be seen as "spiritual", you better spend more than 10 hours each month showing a group meetings than spend 50 hours a month helping and spiritually encouraging your weak, distressed, sick or disabled brothers - that's why nobody ever does it, even though Jesus would be horrified by it.

3) Gather together in worship. I include this one since I understand the arguments put forth in Ray Franz's book, but the NT really seems to be clear that some level of organized worship is required "and even more so as you behold the day drawing near".

All churches do that. Considering most churches do 2 and 3, and most do 1 better than the Witnesses (try it, you'll be surprised), and some of those also oppose military service, could the reason you haven't found one be that you've only be looking for a carbon copy of the Witnesses in those domains? Yet a clone of the Witnesses would mean another high-control cult that forsakes the spirit of the law for the apparences of Christianity...

As for military service though, consider that Jesus told his disciples to provides themselves with a sword. Whatever the Soceity wants you to beleive, you don't take a sword to fend of animals - a lance, a stick or an arc, but a sword would be useless. A sword is useless against animals, because humans don't have the reaction speed to fight an animal close range. Let a wolf or a bear into close range, and you're dead, whether you have a sword or not. A sword is only useful when fighting human beings, that's why hunter tribes didn't use swords. And a sword needs training before you can use one without cutting yourseld in the process, which means at least basic military training - the "martial arts" a Witness isn't supposed to do, because Jesus wouldn't want his disciples to use sword, would he?

Oh wait...

That post is getting long, fortunately the vital part is short and sweet:

You're letting the Watchtower frame your questions for you.

As long as you ignore that fact, the answers won't matter, because you perfectly know them, and you already know the truth about the Watchtower. You just can't (or don't want) yet ask yourself the real questions. Fact is, there is no spoon.

23

"Why Love Never Fails"....Giving the talk tonight. Help?

by stillstuckcruz in

jeez....i if this was about two years ago, i could have put this talk togather lickety split.

but i'm finding it impossible because i can't bring myself to put in phrases such as "god's true people", "love motivates us to....." , etc, etc.

every sentence i add, i just want to throw up because it's all such...pish posh and falsehoods and hypocrisy.

Miles3

A fading sister I know manages to turn her talk right all the time. Instead of "God's people" and other, it's "Jehovah's Witness", "The Watchtower", etc...

One of her talk was about the signs of the last days. She told the study how life expectancy had grown so much in the last century, and the progress of medecine and all. Always the truth, nothing but the truth, but said with a smile, calmly and with the Bible open. Didn't get into any kind of trouble yet, thing is the elders have far more important stuff to think about than listen to a "sister's talk" (or a "simple publisher's talk" FWIW). And the sisters seem to appreciate, I guess more than a few have found disturbing the increasing discrepancy between the Borg and reality.

For this talk, there'd have been plenty of stuff you could have shown going against these principles in the Borg, just without attributing them to the Borg, and with a brush broad enough that they could have been taken as a criticism of the false religion. Like all those harsh and crual rules, etc... The Borg is like other cults, you can talk against what the Mormons do and let those not too much into the Kool-Aid realise that it's the same in the Borg. Their mind will brush the silly idea, but it's another push in the right direction.

When one is sick about feeling like sh*t all the time at the meetings, and sad that they're not doing more to help others, that"s a good way to feel better. I use it in conversations, and it's fascinating to look at somebody's face, watch what you said sink in, then the realisation of what it implies - "did he really mean what I think he meant?" - and finally the brushing off that inevitably ensues "of course not, silly me, he's a nice and spiritual brother, I'm the one that need to adjust my thinking". They look puzzled the whole meeting though, because they've just realised something doesn't add up in the Borg.

24

The pedophile database

by JRK in

i know that years ago there were 23,700+ pedophiles listed in a database in brooklyn by the society.

it has to be many more by now.. do you think there will ever be a defector in the watchtower it department that will release it to the media?

do you think that someone will hack it and release the information?

Miles3

From what i hear and this is coming from my brother who is in IT there are so many passwords protecting it and codes protecting the information and a system set that if an attempt is made to obtain information it will self delete all information within it.

No offense to your brother, he's certainly a great, nice and bright guy regardless, but having talked with some brothers from their IT staff a few years ago, they certainly aren't the sharpest tools in the shed - that's saying considering the security knowledge and habits of the average IT guy. They told me they were taught in, and they spouted enough nonsense in a few minutes of conversation (lots of IT urban myths...) to know they didn't have much of a clue about computing, let alone security (security is an expertise in itself). Anyways, the spiritual schedule at Bethel wouldn't leave the 12-16 hours a day computing/internet use necessary to keep up to date in the field, let alone teach yourserlf. Anyone with the computing habits tied to security expertise wouldn't cut it spiritually at Bethel, and would probably go mad in that stale environment or go back to civil life pronto.

As for the "self delete" part, that's exactly the kind of myth spouted to magnify the divine security at the Borg. There's far better ways to protect the information, the "self delete" is the kind of James Bond trick that looks cool at the Theater and impresses the newbies, but doesn't do anything. Quite goes along with the level of expertise in their staff that they can swallow that nonsense.

The Borg, like any cult, would try to keep that information at all costs, even if they have to lie about having deleted it (they'd just say they never had one). They thrive on control, and they wouldn't want to relinquish the power that list gives them on the sex offenders, the elders complicit in covering the case and the victims (since victimes are also culprits in the sick minds of the Watchtower, like an abused wife is the source of the abuse). The sex offenders are good high responsibilities material, since the Borg can hold them by their cojones the day they'd want to "betray" the hive.

22

Psuedoscientific Things JWs Say

by LostGeneration in

i distinctly remember more than 30 years ago asking my grandfather how all of the races came about after the flood.. "well, noahs three sons were black, white, and oriental, and thats how all of the races came to be".

wtf, i thought to myself, even as a 9 year old kid.

a few years later i remember sitting in the kh listening to the sunday talk when the speaker went over the old "water canopy" theory, but of course presented it as fact.

Miles3

Thanks, didn't know they were still proponnents of this junk. How can those fadders still attending boasting sessions manage not to burst in laughter when it's read, then some clueless bro or sis answers the paragraph?

33

"Freeing" those "trapped" in the Organization.

by curiouscynic in

i have family members who are still jws, many of you do as well.

assuming your folks are similar to mine, they are, for the most part, rational.

they are jws because they believe and they have a tremendous amount of scriptural knowledge, albeit of wts origins and with the expected bias.. if i chose to demonstrate, to my father particularly, the inconsistencies in wts ideology... he might just decide to leave.

Miles3

If it's so obviously the truth, wouldn't you be encouraged to continually compare it against alternate information sources? What would there be to fear?

But the Borg quotes trustworthy information sources, so Witnesses are led to believe they actually have a non-biased and objective review of different information sources. The Borg just outright misquotes and changes the citations, but who in their right mind would imagine they'd do that and get away with it?

Except for apostate litterature, which I never got any access to before the Internet (and which I didn't have money to pay access to for a long time, living a simple life for the Borg), the average witness think they know what scientists and archeologists believe, and those beliefs always support the Bible, or are unconclusive. And at least in my country, all the anti-witness literature/TV programs is led by fondamentalist christians that would make Mad Fred look sane in comparison.

When you're a kid with no Internet, no pocket money to buy books and the local library doesn't have any recent science or archeology books (popular "Science" magazine are junk, and make sure they don't offend their fondamentalist christian readers), there's zero chance you'll be able to see that what the Society pretends the scientists said is rubbish.