Thanks punk and sizemik - I've been following your entries on the thread about taking action against the "mentally diseased" claim, i.e. is it demeaning to those who suffer from mental illnesses? An interesting angle. I really hope you get somewhere with the email campaign, etc.
Posts by cedars
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34Fallout from the apostate-bashing WT article?
by cedars ini've noticed there are a few excellent threads on here about sunday's 9/11 watchtower study.
my own analysis of its more blatantly farcical claims (including that of apostates being "mentally diseased") can be seen here.. what i really wanted to know is - what has the fallout been?
has it created any horror-stories within people's families or homes, etc?
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Society tells us to stop asking questions...
by cedars ini was just glancing at the back of the october 15th watchtower and the questions from readers.
the question under discussion is "what should i do when i have a question about something i read in the bible or when i need advice about a personal problem?".
the article goes on to discuss how we should consult the watch tower publications index among the many 'tools' that have been provided by the faithful and discreet slave whenever we have a question that is not directly discussed in the publications.. one statement really caught my eye, because it's the first time i've ever seen the society actually dissuade people from writing in with questions.
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cedars
Thanks everyone - I never got chance to read the latest attempt to explain the unexplainable, i.e. how to arrive at 607 BCE as being the fall of Jerusalem (other than tracing back 2,520 years from 1914). Does anybody want to quickly explain it to me? I read a thread on here that said that one piece of historical evidence had been found that might support that date, but that it was tenuous at best. I will be looking up the articles myself, but can anyone give me a quick intro?
I agree that the "stop sending us questions" Q from R is probably more than a coincidence, as the 607/1914 issue was arguably one of the more easily refutable doctrines from a secular viewpoint. Now they feel they have nailed that question once and for all, and want everyone to shut up!
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34
Fallout from the apostate-bashing WT article?
by cedars ini've noticed there are a few excellent threads on here about sunday's 9/11 watchtower study.
my own analysis of its more blatantly farcical claims (including that of apostates being "mentally diseased") can be seen here.. what i really wanted to know is - what has the fallout been?
has it created any horror-stories within people's families or homes, etc?
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cedars
hm - I'm still not hearing any true horror stories yet. Not that I want to put words in anyone's mouth, or that I want people to make stuff up, but surely it can't be true that the fallout from the apostate-bashing WT study has all been POSITIVE?! Surely not - I know that's not the case in my family, and I'm interested to know whether things have been worse in others.
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68
Your top 5 most irritating doctrines/practices?
by cedars init's clear that virtually everyone on here is infuriated by wt teachings/doctrines/practices, but i would really like to know what is of most concern to people who frequent this forum.. here is my top 5, number 1 being the most significant/infuriating:.
the disfellowshipping practice - expanded to include family members (but not parents) who are old enough to leave home.
wrecks families and creates abject fear once people find out the truth about the organization.the blood issue - another unmerciful teaching, but one that costs lives.unquestioned authority of governing body - a handful of men make life-altering decisions as representatives of a larger group of people who they never see or speak to, and yet they demand unquestioning obedience on pain of being disfellowshipped.failed prophecy - the fulfilment of huge swathes of bible prophecy, including revelation, has been attributed to the events of the early 20th century, and the actions of a small group of men.two-tier christianity - faithful and discreet slave are anointed who go to heaven to whom ransom provisions apply directly, whereas remainder, or "great crowd" stay on earth and form a sub-class, only access benefits of ransom through fds.i realise that many of these issues are inter-related, but that's roughly how i would put them.
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cedars
Thanks undercover and simon17 - I have a feeling that disfellowshipping/shunning will come out on top once the results are in. Would anybody actually visit this site if nobody was shunned for disagreeing with the Governing Body, and doctrines were put forward on a "take it or leave it" basis? I personally think not.
FYI - I will be totalling the points on this basis:
10 points for (1)
8 points for (2)
6 points for (3)
4 points for (4)
2 points for (5)
Keep those votes coming in everyone!!
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Worst Watchtower Study Ever?
by FrankWTower inthis past week's (9/11/2011) watchtower study on apostates has been the worst study i've had to endure ever since i opened my eyes up to the watchtower's "truth.
"i disgusted me.
i wish more people could actually see what's in front of them.
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cedars
Hello FrankWTower
As bad as Sunday's Watchtower was, I personally think the one in 2 weeks' time will be even worse (regarding shunning) in which disfellowshipped youngsters are likened to Nadab and Abihu in an extremely flawed analogy.
My thoughts on this week's Watchtower on apostates were posted on another thread (click here).
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68
Your top 5 most irritating doctrines/practices?
by cedars init's clear that virtually everyone on here is infuriated by wt teachings/doctrines/practices, but i would really like to know what is of most concern to people who frequent this forum.. here is my top 5, number 1 being the most significant/infuriating:.
the disfellowshipping practice - expanded to include family members (but not parents) who are old enough to leave home.
wrecks families and creates abject fear once people find out the truth about the organization.the blood issue - another unmerciful teaching, but one that costs lives.unquestioned authority of governing body - a handful of men make life-altering decisions as representatives of a larger group of people who they never see or speak to, and yet they demand unquestioning obedience on pain of being disfellowshipped.failed prophecy - the fulfilment of huge swathes of bible prophecy, including revelation, has been attributed to the events of the early 20th century, and the actions of a small group of men.two-tier christianity - faithful and discreet slave are anointed who go to heaven to whom ransom provisions apply directly, whereas remainder, or "great crowd" stay on earth and form a sub-class, only access benefits of ransom through fds.i realise that many of these issues are inter-related, but that's roughly how i would put them.
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cedars
That's a very scary thought indeed, although I suppose you couldn't put it past them. You paint a picture of a cat playing with its semi-dead prey just to show who's boss. Irrespective of how the idea came up initially, and I confess to being sceptical that THAT was the real motive behing it, I maintain that it's mostly tragically misguided theological stupidity that the Society are sticking to if only to 'set them apart' from the masses as part of a sick version of the 'inferiority complex'. If that's what you were referring to, then I could buy into that.
As regards your conversations with Dunlap, I will be PMing you shortly.
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34
Fallout from the apostate-bashing WT article?
by cedars ini've noticed there are a few excellent threads on here about sunday's 9/11 watchtower study.
my own analysis of its more blatantly farcical claims (including that of apostates being "mentally diseased") can be seen here.. what i really wanted to know is - what has the fallout been?
has it created any horror-stories within people's families or homes, etc?
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cedars
The fallout for me is that I will fight all the harder against WT tyranny.
Good for you CoCo. I really hope there haven't been too many nightmare encounters behind closed doors that have been caused by this ridiculous article. I am anxious to hear if there have been any. If nothing else, it would all serve as further testimony against the unspeakable emotional and pyschological warfare that is being waged against those who would dare to speak out against the mighty Governing Body, or even attempt to hear from those that do.
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68
Your top 5 most irritating doctrines/practices?
by cedars init's clear that virtually everyone on here is infuriated by wt teachings/doctrines/practices, but i would really like to know what is of most concern to people who frequent this forum.. here is my top 5, number 1 being the most significant/infuriating:.
the disfellowshipping practice - expanded to include family members (but not parents) who are old enough to leave home.
wrecks families and creates abject fear once people find out the truth about the organization.the blood issue - another unmerciful teaching, but one that costs lives.unquestioned authority of governing body - a handful of men make life-altering decisions as representatives of a larger group of people who they never see or speak to, and yet they demand unquestioning obedience on pain of being disfellowshipped.failed prophecy - the fulfilment of huge swathes of bible prophecy, including revelation, has been attributed to the events of the early 20th century, and the actions of a small group of men.two-tier christianity - faithful and discreet slave are anointed who go to heaven to whom ransom provisions apply directly, whereas remainder, or "great crowd" stay on earth and form a sub-class, only access benefits of ransom through fds.i realise that many of these issues are inter-related, but that's roughly how i would put them.
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cedars
You touch on a trenchant point, and that is that (to many) being shunned by one's family could be a fate worse than death. Not that I would advocate suicide to anyone in this position (as many on this site are) because there is life after disfellowshipping, as has been proven time and again. However, the scars of this policy can never be totally erased, and it results in a whole lot of screwed up people.
A noteworthy thing is that DFing doesn't need to actually be carried out in order to wreck people's lives. Many go through the motions of pretending to be a witness and are forced to live a lie through the sheer fear of potentially being disfellowshipped and cut off from their loved ones. Some even feign 'repentance' and re-enter the organization just so they can be spoken to by their family members. It is a wicked, wicked policy entirely conceived for the purposes of self-preservation - whereas the blood issue is more tragically misguided theological stupidity.
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WT: "Disfellowshipped teenagers = Nadab and Abihu"
by cedars incontinuing on my objective sojourn through the latest watchtower study editions, i thought i would write a few words about the article "god's rest - have you entered into it?
" taken from the july 15th watchtower.
incidentally, this watchtower is the same one that i discussed on my previous post concerning the society's latest bout of apostate-bashing.
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cedars
Thanks Invetigator74 - the sad thing is there is no reason for any parents to go through any emotional turmoil, because the whole disfellowshipping principle has been designed to protect the Society rather than to protect individuals. There is no other explanation for such a ludicrously unmerciful system of shunning.
Who knows what the fallout will be for families affected by this issue when the article is discussed 2 weeks from now?
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68
Your top 5 most irritating doctrines/practices?
by cedars init's clear that virtually everyone on here is infuriated by wt teachings/doctrines/practices, but i would really like to know what is of most concern to people who frequent this forum.. here is my top 5, number 1 being the most significant/infuriating:.
the disfellowshipping practice - expanded to include family members (but not parents) who are old enough to leave home.
wrecks families and creates abject fear once people find out the truth about the organization.the blood issue - another unmerciful teaching, but one that costs lives.unquestioned authority of governing body - a handful of men make life-altering decisions as representatives of a larger group of people who they never see or speak to, and yet they demand unquestioning obedience on pain of being disfellowshipped.failed prophecy - the fulfilment of huge swathes of bible prophecy, including revelation, has been attributed to the events of the early 20th century, and the actions of a small group of men.two-tier christianity - faithful and discreet slave are anointed who go to heaven to whom ransom provisions apply directly, whereas remainder, or "great crowd" stay on earth and form a sub-class, only access benefits of ransom through fds.i realise that many of these issues are inter-related, but that's roughly how i would put them.
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cedars
James - you raise an interesting point related to blood issue versus shunning/paedophilia in terms of 'which is worst'. I suppose that could be a thread in its own right! You're correct in saying that something that can actually deprive people of life is more serious, although (speaking for myself) I think those that have put shunning at number one have done so because they are perhaps prioritizing an issue that effects them personally, and few who visit JWN will die due to the blood issue, largely because they now realise that the Society uses flawed reasoning to justify it. That was simply my reasoning, I can't speak for everyone who has put shunning ahead of the blood issue.
Paedophile secrecy didn't make it into my top 5, but perhaps those who put it ahead of blood were more angered by it because of its potential to ruin people's lives, and the gross injustice of it all. I personally would put down the blood issue as being of more concern, but I suppose everyone has their reasons for how they are voting.