Posts by stuffwotifink

372

On respect for the belief of others. Sorry for the long post

by StarTrekAngel in

i am inclined to start this thread in response to some comments made in other threads.

i have been coming around these forum for quite some time now so whatever you find in here is not just related to something someone may have said this week.

it can go months back as well.. i have seen many who claim to respect the belief of others but when it comes down to applying it into practice, things take a whole different tune.

stuffwotifink

Can anyone "love" something they have no "knowledge" of?

I think knowledge is a prerequisite for love.

11

Is there actually a valid Translation of the Bible ?

by Phizzy in

i saw a vid on-line awhile ago, i cannot remember the title so can't find it, but the guy was some sort of expert in the languages of the bible, and he made a very good case that there has never been a proper translation of the bible.. what he was saying was that all translators fall into the same trap of an overly slavish use of the etymology of words rather than how language was actually used at the time of writing.. he said that what was needed were scholars who were familiar with secular contemporaneous writings, and knew how language was used at the time.. this looks like a very interesting argument.. any thoughts ?

?.

stuffwotifink

I remember some shit on the telly I watched a while back - someone made the point that historical films about Rome, tell us more about the eras they were filmed in than they do about Rome.

I suspect that the bible is similar in this regard.

3

JW Mindset Songs

by Simon in

i heard this and suddenly had an image of jws singing it.

it seems to sum up their self delusion.. https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=sttqxeq2l-y.

how i feel about them and their fake affection.. https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=8uvnt4wvigy.

stuffwotifink

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=dG-fxbEdOAU

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=d5R8kok_4d4

212

Why Do You No Longer Believe in God?

by Tenacious in

i know this question has popped up from time to time but i really would like to know how you guys, those that no longer believe, came to that conclusion?

was it the wts and all its crap?

was it something you read?

stuffwotifink

Is it your normal tactic to claim that people who disagree with you don't understand what you are talking about?

It is my normal tactic to point out that people who don't seem to know what they are talking about: don't seem to know what they are talking about.

Am I supposed to think that someone who claims everyone is an evidentialist and thinks that "epistemology isn't about evidence", knows what they are talking about?
If I honestly think that a person lacks understanding about something, should I hide my opinion?

Well I am open to being persuaded by evidence

Good for you. I hope you find someone who cares to try and persuade you. That person is not me.

I feel no obligation to a person who pops up (with what seems like a very poor grasp of what epistemology actually is) to say "epistemology has no value" and then demands that I persuade them of its value.
I have drying paint that needs watching first.

212

Why Do You No Longer Believe in God?

by Tenacious in

i know this question has popped up from time to time but i really would like to know how you guys, those that no longer believe, came to that conclusion?

was it the wts and all its crap?

was it something you read?

stuffwotifink

Nope. Lots of people are no such thing.
They are, it's why rational people don't walk out of second floor windows. I suggest you look up 'last thursdayism' as I think it applies to anything that comes from a study of epistemology.

You may want to find out what "Evidentialism" actually is, before stating that "everyone" is an evidentialist, perhaps.

If you think Last Thursdayism applies to "anything that comes from a study of epistemology": It is clear you don't understand epistemology very well.
(Assuming that you are using "anything", here, as synonymous with "everything", which you seem to be doing, given the context.)

I wasn't trying to convince you. Your opinion of epistemology doesn't effect me, one way or the other.
You bought it up, not me. If you don't want to discuss your own contribution to a discussion forum then why are you here?

I did mention epistemology, that is very true, have a cookie.
You then popped up and said that, according to what you see as the "evidence", epistemology has no "predictive power" (I've no idea at all why you think it should have) "or value".

In what way did you think that voicing your opinion of the lack of value in epistemology, was encouraging my further "discussion" of it with you?

An article you may find enlightening, maybe:
http://plato.stanford.edu/entries/evidence/#EviWhiJusBel

212

Why Do You No Longer Believe in God?

by Tenacious in

i know this question has popped up from time to time but i really would like to know how you guys, those that no longer believe, came to that conclusion?

was it the wts and all its crap?

was it something you read?

stuffwotifink

cofty

Evolution happened we know this with a level of certainty that is every bit as great as our knowledge that the earth is not flat.

Certainty is no measure of the veracity of a belief. No idea why you'd even mention it.
One can be certain and wrong, uncertain and right.

Why would anybody who already accepts this to be true want to debate whether this belongs in the set of facts or beliefs?

I wasn't debating the issue.
All facts are beliefs. "Facts" and "knowledge" are subsets of belief.
The statement I originally responded to was "Nobody "believes" in natural selection, it's just a fact."
I wasn't debating that point, I was offering correction.

I read the article on epistemology a while ago. It was outrageously tedious.

Seemingly you didn't understand it.

cappytan

Anyone that points to DNA as "proof" of a creator and evidence against evolution has no idea what the science behind evolution actually says. They're being intellectually dishonest.

If they have "no idea what the science behind evolution actually says": They are not being intellectually dishonest. They are just being ignorant or wrong.
To be intellectually dishonest, you have to know that you are in error...

For example:
Someone who is aware that "facts" belong in the catagory of "belief", but who continues to say that "you don't have to believe a fact", would be intellectually dishonest.

212

Why Do You No Longer Believe in God?

by Tenacious in

i know this question has popped up from time to time but i really would like to know how you guys, those that no longer believe, came to that conclusion?

was it the wts and all its crap?

was it something you read?

stuffwotifink

We are all evidentialists

Nope. Lots of people are no such thing.

that doesn't convince me there is any value in epistemology.

I wasn't trying to convince you. Your opinion of epistemology doesn't effect me, one way or the other.

212

Why Do You No Longer Believe in God?

by Tenacious in

i know this question has popped up from time to time but i really would like to know how you guys, those that no longer believe, came to that conclusion?

was it the wts and all its crap?

was it something you read?

stuffwotifink

But epistemology isn't about evidence, after all pretty much all the evidence I have confirms that the world we live in is as it seems. The world responds in a logical and consistent fashion to the things I do and there is no advantage to assuming that I am in a matrix type environment being fooled (or a brain in a jar). Let's be honest if there were such evidence to be found I very much doubt it is going to be provided by an epistomologist, because I see no evidence that there is any predictive power or value in epistemology.

Evidentialism is an epistemological position.

212

Why Do You No Longer Believe in God?

by Tenacious in

i know this question has popped up from time to time but i really would like to know how you guys, those that no longer believe, came to that conclusion?

was it the wts and all its crap?

was it something you read?

stuffwotifink

We descended from non-human ancestors.

That's a well justified belief. I also believe that it's true.

If you insist on calling this a "belief" you need to invent a new word for the "beliefs" of religious people. Superstitions would do fine actually.

I also agree that "superstitions" would be a good word for the kind of religious beliefs you are refering to. [I guess that excuses me from shouldering the burden of inventing a new word.]

Tedious semantics.

No. Not at all.
Not unless you consider epistemology "Tedious semantics". An odd postition for someone who enjoys evidence so much, but hey, philosophy isn't everyone's bag.

212

Why Do You No Longer Believe in God?

by Tenacious in

i know this question has popped up from time to time but i really would like to know how you guys, those that no longer believe, came to that conclusion?

was it the wts and all its crap?

was it something you read?

stuffwotifink

Nobody "believes" in natural selection, it's just a fact.

All knowledge and facts are beliefs, the rub lies in the justification.
Epistemology, anyone?

I'll just pop this here.
http://plato.stanford.edu/entries/epistemology/

Anyway, I do not believe in the God of the bible - because of reading the bible. Any other Gods I ever "looked into", also struck me as false. Metaphor, at best.
Even if, when I looked at the world I thought I saw the Hand of some Maker, I'd have to invent my own idea of a "God" to fit what I thought I saw evidence of.

Even if there is a real God - the best any human can do is invent their own idea of one or believe in someone else's invention.
[Without the god revealing itself, ofc. But even if the god reveals itself to Man number 1 -- Man number 2 is going around telling people about his invented god -- and Man number 3 has no way to distinguish between the false and true gods he's being told about.]

Seems unreasonable, in light of all that, to believe in any God that doesn't tap me personally on the shoulder.
So I don't.