ray franz states that, according to governing body decisions on matters of faith, fault found with certain of a religion's teachings makes said faith, in its totality, unacceptable to god.
therefore one's association in that religion renders one unclean.
as a consequence, a jehovah's witness would be disfellowshiped for joining the y.m.c.a.
He doesn't expect JWs to stay in the Borg and wait on God...his example is proof of that.
I am not in any way critisizing Raymond Franz but Blondie said the above. However, Isn't it true though that he did not leave the org but was basically spyed upon by the GB and dismissed from Bethel, then disfellowshipped for eating with his boss? Who's to say how long he would have been "technically" a JW while still having feelings that the org is wrong.
i remember one windy summer day, after a meeting on sunday morning, i walked out of the hall behind a sister who was part of the church congregation with her two teenage children.
her husband did not attend.
the wind caught her dress unexpectedly and blew it up a'la marilyn monroe and revealed that she was wearing (shock, horror) french knickers...... there were a few murmers behind me which i at the time put down to things like "oh poor girl, so embarrassing".
Star Wars promotes the occult (the Force and whatnot).
What blasphemy.... that elder should've been taken out and shot in the back of the head for that comment.
i drove by the kingdom hall tonight and saw only 12 cars parked in the lot.
five years ago there would have been at least 30.
I would imagine that it depends on the area of the U.S. or other country you are in but here my area of the U.S. the young ones are leaving in droves...not getting baptized, getting df or just simply moving to a cheaper area and disappearing off the JW radar.
The other english congregation that meets with us in the same hall is suffering severely, their TMS and Service meeting looks like a bookstudy. From what old timers in my cong say before the 2 split about 20 yrs ago the attendance used to be over 150 every single meeting and some sundays almost 200. Watchtower's waters are drying up particularly in the english speaking field here in the U.S.
when i was a young and idealistic elder - the attitude that was stressed continually was this one :.
christiangreatnesscomesfromserving.
"among you, whoever wants to be great must be your servant."matt.
Having been the wife of an elder, I know how much stress is put upon these men to sometimes go against their conscience. It really is a "good old boys club" and you must adjust your thinking to theirs to fit in. To step aside takes great humility because the gossip starts in full force and you are immediately treated as a lesser person.
This is exactly it in a nutshell. Once you stop "adjusting your thinking and going against your own conscience" that is when the pestering starts like in my case.
"How are you?" "We missed you at the last meeting" PO: "Do you think we could meet and talk with you for a few minutes?" "We noticed..you seem stressed out lately"
I have made a concession recently to start to go more regularly to the meetings again w/ the wife but I am done playing games with the other elders and she understands this. She knows my stepping aside/deletion isn't far away. Maybe when she sees how I am treated afterwards she'll finally see how unloving and unchristlike these people really are and leave with me.
when i was a young and idealistic elder - the attitude that was stressed continually was this one :.
christiangreatnesscomesfromserving.
"among you, whoever wants to be great must be your servant."matt.
Most of the elders now suck. many are power hungry, insecure, petty, unloving, etc, etc. There was a time where elders were reccomended based on what the bible said now its more who you know and who's big fat ass you kiss.
lets say you go throught the bank drive through, and cash a check.
they give you an extra hundred bucks.........would you tell them?
(i have to admit, i didnt, and felt guilty).
I once went to a local deli here and ordered lunch, gave the nasty owner/cashier a $10 and she gave me back change for a $20. I admit that because I didnt like the way she yelled at her migrant (mexican most likely) staff I walked away. I felt a little guilty but not that much since I didnt care for her. I would not deliberately cheat someone though.
ok, so this is purely speculative, but with the dwindling numbers in the org do you think the wts may actually start encouraging the r&f to have children?
as counterintuitive as it may seem with the constant impending armageddon agenda, i know of many died-in-the-wool company men (and women) who would swallow whatever spin the society feeds them to keep the numbers up.
farfetched perhaps, but what else can they do?.
Observing my "generation" mid 30's-early 40's I'd say that most of us planned on not going to college and pioneering until the end came. Which was soon since people alive in 1914 couldn't really live that long right? Lately many of us since the generation change, myself included opted to stop pioneering and have kids. Afterall the end could be 10-20-30 yrs from now. Its amazing how WT doctrines really toy with people's lives.
i actually attended the bookstudy on friday, don't ask me why.
anyway the revelation book is being considered and we're at the paragraph where the congregation in ephesus is comended for "not bearing bad men.." apostates.. .
the comments from the ones attending were so baised and ignorant.
I actually attended the bookstudy on Friday, don't ask me why. Anyway the Revelation book is being considered and we're at the paragraph where the congregation in ephesus is comended for "not bearing bad men.." apostates.. . The comments from the ones attending were so baised and ignorant. One sister: "Oh the apostates, they just get so bitter and angry..they aren't happy"
HELLO... if you found out that you had been lied to for x amount of yrs or decades wouldn't you initially be pissed?!!? Of course nobody talks to these "apostates" years later to see how happy to be out they really are. I guess JW's need to tell themselves that all apostates are bitter, angry evil people to solidify their own decision to stay in mind controlling cult. Just had to vent, more and more I realize why I dont like going to meetings.
hello chumz on the board.
nothing really to do with jwism but who prefers the american 'bourbon' type such as 'wild turkey', 'jim beam' etc or who prefers a fine single malt scotch such as 'glenfiddich' or 'glenmorangie'?
i am not trying to stir up nationalism with this question but am just genuinely curious.. lfcv.
Southern Comfort is best with Coke Classic
That used to be my drink of choice after beer but an incident with a brother who was at bethel at the time barfing up a mix of southern comfort, coke and cheeto's turned me off to it pretty much for good.
i posted a similar topic a year and a half ago.
i thought with all the new people it would be interesting to ask it again.
so i began to research ... and here i am.
Good, thorough list ITIS.
While I am still in technically what lead me to be mentally free of the WT was being an elder for the passed 11 yrs. I got to see firsthand how unloving and pharisaical many elders are. They are power hungry, egotistical, selfish, back stabbing, morons. I saw how the PO would sit and complain to me about this elder, and that elder...then when I'd speak to "this" and "that" elder they would tell me how he would complain about me. Stars in the right hand of christ?!?!!??
The class system in most congregations also caused me to doubt that we were fulfulling John 13:35 to have love, the lack of genuine shepherding calls, I could go on and on but you get the point.
The final straw was watching that dateline on pedophiles and then a bulb went off in my head "what else can they be wrong about if they allow something this serious to go on". Went online, found this site and many others then finally read both of Ray Franz's books last summer and that was it.
