in compliance with the terms of a settlement agreement, my information and research web site, http://quotes.watchtower.ca, is now "dark".
the domain "watchtower.ca" has been transferred to wts (i assume they will have it pointing to borg.org watchtower.org asap).
my copies of the site have been destroyed, the files deleted, and my wt library cd has been destroyed, in accordance with the settlement agreement which will afford a "discontinuance" of their suit against me.
Quotes now hosted in China too!
I hope this is not a repeat of information, but this recent version of Quotes, is hosted and registered in China, so it might be a bit harder for the Watch Tower to closedown.
http://www.reexamine.org/quotes/
It also gives instructions on downloading the whole lot to your hardrive (about 42MB) here:
http://www.reexamine.org/quotes/admin-mirror.htm
One thing that made me laugh is the WHOIS site named owner is registered as “C.T. Russell and Ass”.
Regards,
Nemesis
http://www.watchtower.org/statistics/worldwide_report.htm.
can anyone confirm this is what it looks like?
i may be delivering old news.
I see the full stats are listed on an older thread with percent increase.
http://www.jehovahs-witness.com/6/81777/1.ashx
It amused me looking at the British figures. Last year in Great Britain Jehovah's Witnesses claimed to have door knocked for 18,115,252 hours, and yet they only made an increase in their total numbers of publishers of 36! (That's publishers not baptised) An increase of just one Watchtower publisher took the equivalent of 57½ years of continuous preaching, 24-hours a day, 365 days a year to achieve just one extra publisher (and they don't even need to be baptised to be one). Or more than 2,067 years of preaching 24-hours a day, 365 days a year, for to make just an increase of the full 36 publishers for the year. I'm amazed they give out these figures as they are so damning as to their preaching affects. They must be running out of the back door almost as fast as they come in the front.
Nemesis
is this video clip from randys site from a real watchtower video?
and if yes, does anyone have a source for a longer clip?
http://www.freeminds.org/video/vlc556.html.
I totally agree 2SYN, if it is real, maybe one of their old 1980s promotions, can you imagine what a fantastic anti-Watchtower tool it would be! It's so sick, it would be wonderful if it was real and the public could get hold of it, another Panorama maybe?
Nemesis
is this video clip from randys site from a real watchtower video?
and if yes, does anyone have a source for a longer clip?
http://www.freeminds.org/video/vlc556.html.
Is this video clip from Randys site from a real Watchtower video? And if yes, does anyone have a source for a longer clip?
http://www.freeminds.org/video/vlc556.html
Nemesis
Edited by - Nemesis on 1 August 2002 17:3:10
is the god of the bible, as bible accounts tell us and according to witness theology clever or a bit daft and wasteful?.lets look at a few things.. god creates man.so in someway man is designed by god.now for some reason which is either a natural law which god cannot break, an error on his part or done on purpose, man is able to become imperfect.so either god could not forsee this or he carried on despite knowing what would happen if man turned imperfect.. was god right to do this?if you were god would you have carried on?was it right that if only the first two humans managed to become imperfect or made by god imperfect that all humans from then on would now be so cursed?is god using a dodgy programme or does he have no power to do things differently?.
then god sets laws for humans.it is up to god what man can and can not do.truble is these are exactly the things humans what to do if imperfect.could god have changed things round a bit making it easier for humans to follow his laws?
in fact those cursed with imperfection had no choice in the matter.and are punished for following their instincts.it goes so far that god says unless you follow my laws (which are impossible to follow fully as we are imperfect)i'm going to kill the lot of you?in fact i already know that hardly any will survive.. if you are an imperfect human , unable to follow god through no fault of your own, you are considered wicked.but apart from that apparently god allows some other creature with his mates to to mislead these poor humans with devious plans.they are so good that you cant even tell satan and his demon friends even exist.yet god allows tham to causes havoc among his humans.. aparently only those who manage to find out god exist through a book written thousands of years earlier , without any supporting evidence of being genuinly written by god, and only those out of that number who come across a tiny religious group , lead by a bunch of men who can not prove god is using them, and who sell their magazines by going door to door are going to be saved.. does this make sense?why does not god make it easier for humans?why allow them to be bullied and mislead by super powerful creatures?why make the "truth" so hard to find , so difficult to believe?why punish people for things they can't help doing?.
Sleepy:
"But as imperfect humans, we don't have free will. The idea is that we are born sinners, we can't help sinning. If we can't help it we have no choice in the matter."
Sleepy, you forget that God does not in any way require us to be perfect; he knows well that is impossible. All he asks of us is to try our best, that is all we can do. Jesus' sacrifice covers all other sins. We can only do the best we can and no more, that is all he asks, not perfection.
SpiceItUp:
"If the first man was perfect then he could not have made the first mistake even with free will. Since the word perfect is defined as:
1 a: being entirely without fault or defect : FLAWLESS
If Adam had no flaws or defects then that would mean he would be in capable of making mistakes---therefore he wold not have sinned. . ."
Perfection is merely achieving the goal of the designer without flaws. Part of man's design was to have free will to become corrupt, which is why we are corruptible, not incorruptible, that was part of our design as humans. Adam didn't make a "mistake", he chose to sin, being a perfect being of free will would not remove his power and natural ability to choose bad if he desired it. The choosing was part of his design, so would not contradict his perfection. God could make a tree, and call it perfect (it met its design brief), but you may say: "Look, the trunk is a big wonky there, and those leaves are being eaten by bugs, etc." But what you forget is that is part of the design brief that is the nature of a tree! We are corruptible by nature, God does promise if we live good lives he will reward us in the future with incorruptibility and we will be like him, unable to sin, or become bad. But until then, we have to put up with this reality and get on with life, enjoy it, and try and see the bad things as lessons, and grow from them. No amount of blaming God will remove life's tests, and troubles, so we better get on and make the most if it before we cast off this mortal coil.
Nemesis
is the god of the bible, as bible accounts tell us and according to witness theology clever or a bit daft and wasteful?.lets look at a few things.. god creates man.so in someway man is designed by god.now for some reason which is either a natural law which god cannot break, an error on his part or done on purpose, man is able to become imperfect.so either god could not forsee this or he carried on despite knowing what would happen if man turned imperfect.. was god right to do this?if you were god would you have carried on?was it right that if only the first two humans managed to become imperfect or made by god imperfect that all humans from then on would now be so cursed?is god using a dodgy programme or does he have no power to do things differently?.
then god sets laws for humans.it is up to god what man can and can not do.truble is these are exactly the things humans what to do if imperfect.could god have changed things round a bit making it easier for humans to follow his laws?
in fact those cursed with imperfection had no choice in the matter.and are punished for following their instincts.it goes so far that god says unless you follow my laws (which are impossible to follow fully as we are imperfect)i'm going to kill the lot of you?in fact i already know that hardly any will survive.. if you are an imperfect human , unable to follow god through no fault of your own, you are considered wicked.but apart from that apparently god allows some other creature with his mates to to mislead these poor humans with devious plans.they are so good that you cant even tell satan and his demon friends even exist.yet god allows tham to causes havoc among his humans.. aparently only those who manage to find out god exist through a book written thousands of years earlier , without any supporting evidence of being genuinly written by god, and only those out of that number who come across a tiny religious group , lead by a bunch of men who can not prove god is using them, and who sell their magazines by going door to door are going to be saved.. does this make sense?why does not god make it easier for humans?why allow them to be bullied and mislead by super powerful creatures?why make the "truth" so hard to find , so difficult to believe?why punish people for things they can't help doing?.
Sleepy:
"God creates man. So in someway man is designed by God. Now for some reason which is either a natural law which god cannot break, an error on his part or done on purpose, man is able to become imperfect. So either God could not foresee this or he carried on despite knowing what would happen if man turned imperfect."
What you are missing is free will. God could have made us like plants, set by laws to form, function and grow, and then die; he has already done that with plants. He could have made us like animals, set by laws, instincts, and limited intellect and limited freedom from the overlying instinct; and he has already done that with animals.
He made us with fleshly bodies and minds that were capable of higher being, intellect, spirituality and true free will to choose between good and bad. The freedom to choose bad is the whole point of free will, without that we would not be free. It doesn't matter if most choose bad, as that is their privilege to decide that. If you wish to live like an animal and disregard spirituality and function solely on instincts, then that is your choice, but don't expect him to pick up the pieces, or bring you back when you return to the dust that you came from. If you wish to live like an animal then you should also expect the same destiny as an animal, eternal non-existence.
He also doesn't expect us to be perfect, and I'm sure he feels there is enough in the world and scriptures to prove his existence. Others may disagree and want a personal visitation, but he obviously sees there is enough in the world to get to know him and live a good life, whether you choose to open up to that or not is another aspect of free will. I'm sure he wants people to know him and Jesus because they want to, not because of selfish reasons or because they have had it all put on a plate in front of them and need little effort, or sincere faith to know him.
I find it amusing that humans screw up the world, and then expect God to jump to attention and make it all good so they can then screw it up all over again, why the heck should he? We are all damn lucky to even exist! Any one of us could die tomorrow, we should all count our blessings, and stop expecting others to wave a magic wand and make our lives ideal. Shit happens, and nearly all of it is from humans, not God. He has his timetable, and will sort reality out when he wishes, until then he makes it very clear that we are all capable of living a good life, and that is all he's asking, he owes us nothing but we owe him everything, especially if we somehow think he should give us immortality and a wonderful life all for nothing!
Nemesis
draffenville
congregation
of jehovah's witnesses
Bill,
Make sure you wear a pinhole camera and a hidden microphone. I can't see them frisking you, and you would have evidence of what goes on in the secret meeting.
Nemesis
in no specific order: .
suffer the little children.
secret database protects pedophiles.
Sorry if this is a repeat post, but here is the link to the after programme discussion of today with Bill Bowen on the phone, it's in Real Player format. (It runs for 30 mins)
http://news.bbc.co.uk/olmedia/cta/progs/02/forum/panorama/jehovah15jul.ram
PS. Simon, it would be good to get this on file and add it to your "Streaming media" main post so people can see it when it's not on the BBC anymore.
in no specific order: .
suffer the little children.
secret database protects pedophiles.
They have the transcript up now, might also be useful for the North American audience that might not have picked all the story with there being several Scottish accents.
http://news.bbc.co.uk/hi/english/static/audio_video/programmes/panorama/transcripts/transcript_14_07_02.txt
Nemesis
.
i'm still getting last weeks program via realplayer!!!.
the panorama site updated with the link "watch 'suffer the little children'" but that link brings last week's program.. mike.
http://news.bbc.co.uk/olmedia/cta/progs/panorama/latest.ram (It will only be on this link for one week)
