Posts by NeonMadman

Peter Barnes is a very pleasant man who used to be a circuit overseer, but left the Watchtower in 1978, when he received Christ. He had been a JW for 30 years. He is the author of at least two books that I know of, Out of Darkness Into Light, and The Truth About Jesus and the Trinity. I had the pleasure of making his acquaintance at the Witnesses Now For Jesus convention in PA this past October (after having corresponded with him in the past), and found him to be a delightful, humble, man, as well as extremely knowledgeable. He currently lives in southern California.

Tom
"The truth was obscure, too profound and too pure; to live it you had to explode." ---Bob Dylan

13

"While the Bridegroom was delaying..."

by Yadirf in

jw
friends

---> http://www.wfm.org/congress/index.html.

---> http://www.wfa.org/about/.

---> http://www.wfa.org/index.html.

NeonMadman

You say that you don't "see" the WTS mentioned in "that verse". Of course you don't, do you imagine that I figured that YOU would be able to discern such a thing. Of course not, Weed. I knew in advance of posting all of this that you haven't the insight that it takes to understand hardly ANYTHING about the Bible. Why are you that way? Because you're not in association with the right group, for only one reason.

Right. So unless you are in association with the WTS, you won't have the discernment to see the WTS mentioned in the Bible. Undecided may be right; you do sound like Fred Franz. Possibly you could cite some unambiguous scriptures showing that one must associate with the right group in order to discern the meaning of scripture?

I do believe there is one reference to the Watchtower and similar groups in scripture - I believe they are and always have been a big part of the 'foolish virgin' class, you know, the ones who ran out of 'oil' because the bridegroom had delayed his arrival? The wise virgins, of course, had heeded Jesus' words that 'no man knows the day and hour,' and remained prepared for his arrival at any time. The foolish virgins, on the other hand, had expected his arrival at a specific time of their determining, and were therefore nonplussed when he appeared to be 'delaying' his arrival. So, because they had focused on a man-made date, they ran out of oil and were taken by surprise when he arrived at a time they had not forseen. This, I believe, will be the fate of the Watchtower and similar 'false-prophet' groups.

Tom
"The truth was obscure, too profound and too pure; to live it you had to explode." ---Bob Dylan

66

ex-JW Christians Suck!

by mikepence in

jw
friends

there, i said it.. how can you leave one brainwashing controlling world view and dive right into another?!.

duh!!!.

see http://www.jehovahs-witness.com/forum/thread.asp?id=17131&site=3 for a great example of why they suck.. aaaaaarrrrrrgggghhhh!.

NeonMadman

I guess the problem that I have with what I am reading from some in this thread is the presumption that, when one leaves a cult such as the JW's, one must necessarily abandon ALL religion, or he/she is just getting 'sucked out of one controlling cult into another.'

The bottom line to that, I guess, is that some of us left the JW's precisely because of the faith and respect we had for the Bible, and the growing realization that what the Watchtower was teaching and practicing was in no way consistent with what the Bible said.

I can understand that some of you were soured on religion entirely by your JW experience. I can respect that, because I can see how just such an attitude could have developed in me under other circumstances. But it didn't. I'm content with what I believe now, I'm still looking for a church to belong to, and believe me, one of the big qualifications is non-controlling. I have no desire to ever get involved again with anything remotely similar to the Watchtower. Yes, I'm a Christian, and that's strictly between me and Jesus. Organizations have nothing to do with it. If I can find a group of fellow Christians with whom to interact, great. If I can't, I'll continue to study and pray and wait for the Lord's leading.

But I am really disturbed by the mocking attitude that some ex-jw's here who have abandoned religion entirely take toward those who have not. You were deceived in that cult, too, remember? You are no more immune to false belief systems than any of the rest of us. And make no mistake, atheism is a belief system, based entirely upon faith in unprovable assertions, like these:

* The universe is rational and orderly, and given sufficient data, can be completely understood
* There is no God
* Matter arose from nothing, or, conversely,
* Matter has always existed

All of the above are unprovable statements based upon faith, yet dearly held by those who claim to be without faith. And that's fine. If that's the paradigm in which the universe makes sense to you, then you have every right to hold those views. I disagree with them, and I don't ridicule you; please don't mock me because my faith-based views are different than yours.

Of course, as a side note, there is one other benefit of becoming a Christian after leaving the JW's, and that is that it's exactly what the Society doesn't want to see. They would much rather see everyone abandon religion completely, because then they can impugn your motives: "See that? When people leave the Troooth, it's because they just can't live up to the standards, and they want a life of sin." It's a lot harder for them to explain when someone leaves and finds a better religion. This isn't a reason to make such a decision, of course; I just bring it up because I get so much pleasure out of irritating the Society...

Tom
"The truth was obscure, too profound and too pure; to live it you had to explode." ---Bob Dylan

66

ex-JW Christians Suck!

by mikepence in

jw
friends

there, i said it.. how can you leave one brainwashing controlling world view and dive right into another?!.

duh!!!.

see http://www.jehovahs-witness.com/forum/thread.asp?id=17131&site=3 for a great example of why they suck.. aaaaaarrrrrrgggghhhh!.

NeonMadman

Mike;

I'm an ex-JW, I'm a Christian, and I've been enjoying your site from time to time.

What seems to be the problem here?

Tom
"The truth was obscure, too profound and too pure; to live it you had to explode." ---Bob Dylan

35

Addition To post on Disfellowshipping!

by Bill Parker in

jw
friends

i should have closed with the following comnment on my post.. when the clean-up is finally done by the messiah through the angels it will be fair and just.

no one at that time will be able to argue what he does.they will not be able to say it is a cruel practice.

it wasn't in the 1st century as i showed in the article.

NeonMadman

it has been my personal experience that the vast majority of disfellowshipped ones do not return, and i could name at 10+ of these cases from my old congregation. my experience could be the exception though, which is why i asked for hard stats.

My experience parallels yours, though, for whatever it's worth. In my 30 years as a JW I heard many, many disfellowshippings announced, but reinstatements were a rare beast, indeed, the number of which I can recall could probably be counted on the fingers of one hand.

Tom
"The truth was obscure, too profound and too pure; to live it you had to explode." ---Bob Dylan

35

Addition To post on Disfellowshipping!

by Bill Parker in

jw
friends

i should have closed with the following comnment on my post.. when the clean-up is finally done by the messiah through the angels it will be fair and just.

no one at that time will be able to argue what he does.they will not be able to say it is a cruel practice.

it wasn't in the 1st century as i showed in the article.

NeonMadman

RE: Bob Dylan lyric

Thanks, YK!

That explains why I didn't know it, and why it isn't in the official lyric search database. It's from "Love and Theft," a great album, but one I haven't listened to enough times yet to be thoroughly familiar with the lyrics, and which hasn't yet been catalogued in the Sony website's database.

Tom
"The truth was obscure, too profound and too pure; to live it you had to explode." ---Bob Dylan

35

Addition To post on Disfellowshipping!

by Bill Parker in

jw
friends

i should have closed with the following comnment on my post.. when the clean-up is finally done by the messiah through the angels it will be fair and just.

no one at that time will be able to argue what he does.they will not be able to say it is a cruel practice.

it wasn't in the 1st century as i showed in the article.

NeonMadman

I'm going to spare the defeated
I'm going to speak to the crowd
I'm going to spare the defeated
Boys I'm going to speak to the crowd
I'm going to teach peace to the conquered
I'm going to tame the proud. --- Bob Dylan

YK, what Dylan song did you quote these lyrics from? I entered it into the search database on bobdylan.com and it came up empty.

Tom
"The truth was obscure, too profound and too pure; to live it you had to explode." ---Bob Dylan

18

WAS DISFELLOWSHIPPING FOR CHRISTIANS TODAY?

by Bill Parker in

jw
friends

was disfellowshipping for christians today?.

tuesday, december 11, 2001. .

in an effort to keep this as short as possible i am going to try and focus only a bare minimum of scriptures realizing that no one today appreciates too long a post.. in luke 12:48 these words are found, in part: ... to whom much was given much will be demanded.

NeonMadman

For once I actually agree (at least partially) with You Know...

At least to the extent that Bill Parker is twisting scripture in his arguments on this subject.

Note what Bill says:

The 1st Century Christians were given the “Gifts of the Spirit.” Having these special gifts they were empowered to read the heart’s of individuals. This can be seen by reading Acts 5:1-12. THEY were told in 1 Corinthians 5:13 to “remove the wicked man from among themselves. Having that special ability they knew who the “wicked one’s were. So they could follow that direction. They practiced “righteous judgment” as commanded by Jesus. {John 7:24}

There is no scripture I know of in which 'righteous judgment' is shown to be a gift of the spirit, akin to speaking in tongues or prophecy. Since your whole argument hangs on that premise, you will have to prove that assertion before any of the rest of your arguments will stand.

In Acts 5, verses 3 and 4 demonstrate clearly that what was in operation was the Holy Spirit, not some spiritual gift that Peter possessed. It would really be more accurate to say thet Peter was speaking under direct inspiration than that he was exercising a 'gift of righteous judgment', since no such gift is described in the Bible.

At John 7:24, Jesus was not offering instruction about congregational procedure, nor was he discussing spiritual gifts to be given; he was chiding the crowd because, after he performed a miracle, they accused him of being demon-possessed. You are using this scripture completely out of context when you say,

No man today has that ability. not you, not the Governing Body, not any so called "older One" or Elder in whatever congregation you can name. They were all instructed to "judge with righteous judgment." {John 7:24}

That verse has no reference to elders or the Christian congregation; it was addressed to unbelieving Jews. To use it in the fashion you are using it is to misrepresent its meaning. At no time that gifts of the spirit are listed is 'righteous judgment' among them; you are inventing that gift on the basis of scriptures twisted out of their context, and your whole line of reasoning hangs on it. There is no scriptural basis at all for your teaching.

Tom
"The truth was obscure, too profound and too pure; to live it you had to explode." ---Bob Dylan

26

New Jersey peoples

by Naeblis in

jw
friends

i'll be moving there sometime next month.

who wants to go out for a beer?

:p

NeonMadman

I'm in! (I'll stick to SoCo, though, can't quite hack the taste of beer)

So when's the party?

Tom
"The truth was obscure, too profound and too pure; to live it you had to explode." ---Bob Dylan