Posts by NeonMadman

87

Beliefs Tied to Geography

by OnTheWayOut in

jw
friends

.

NeonMadman

Unless critical thinking is first and foremost, Unless a "belief system" has built-in corrective measures as far as testing its own truthfulness, then is would be correct to assume it is wrong.
edit: of course these corrective measures would be biase to support the "belief system's" viewpoint.

I'm not sure how that relates to the discussion at hand, that of beliefs being determined by geography. My point was that this sort of argument (that of beliefs being determined by geography, as advanced in the graphic in the original post in this thread) is often raised against theists, but it really proves nothing. How we acquired a belief in no way relates to whether the belief is true or not. The same could be said of atheists and agnostics in this regard as of theists.

One might also wonder what "corrective measures" are in place to test the presupposition of materialistic naturalism that forms the basis of the atheist's belief, and whether such corrective measures (if they exist) might be biased in favor of that belief system's viewpoint. Ultimately, all belief systems - including atheism - are based on presuppositions that cannot be absolutely proven.

6

Will there be a SECOND Armageddon in the year 2914?

by Alfred in

ok... i know the answer... absolutely not..... but where does the watchtower get this idea that satan will be released in the year 2914 (1914 + 1,000) to test the faith of jws who have been cleaning up the planet for a thousand years?

which bible texts have they taken out of context to arrive at this bizarre and exclusive jw teaching?.

also, what are they saying will happen to the those who fail this "final test"?

NeonMadman

I don't believe I've ever seen it in a WT pub where they specified that 2914 would be when Satan would be released. In fact, their teachings would seem to argue against that date. The 1000 years begin at Armageddon, not in 1914. Satan is released at the end of the 1000 years. Since Armageddon has not yet occurred, the 1000 years have not begun, therefore, could not end in 2914. Do you have a citation from a publication where it mentions this date?

11

Did you / do you have KH Parking Lot Security Duty?

by Alfred in

jw
friends

just wondering if this is only a regional thing.... i've been in two kingdom halls in the 90's where the parking was basically shared or public... so every 15 minutes, baptized publishers (who were not irregular or inactive) were rotated and had to stand outside in all kinds of weather just to watch everyone's vehicles.

when the weather was nice, it was a good opportunity stretch out to take a break from the borefest.

but i always thought that this was so contrary to their belief of "putting kingdom interests first"... i even approached an elder one time about this and asked: "why are we putting material things ahead of listening to the public talk?

NeonMadman

I think we only had it at the Memorial, but I lived in a pretty low-crime area. Except for higher crime areas, where it may have been necessary, it wasn't a big thing that I was aware of. However, I wouldn't be surprised if they had instituted it even in low-crime areas to prevent apostates from coming in and pamphleting cars during the meeting.

87

Beliefs Tied to Geography

by OnTheWayOut in

jw
friends

.

NeonMadman

And if you were born in certain secular areas of Europe, you'd probably be atheist or agnostic.

None of which says anything about the truth or falsity of the given belief systems. The argument presented in this graphic is often used against anyone who believes that their particular belief system is true, but it really is no argument. The prevalence of belief or unbelief in certain geographical areas is unrelated to the validity of those beliefs. Citing the cultural, emotional or psychological reasons why someone believes only tells you something about that person, not about the truth value of his or her belief system. As an argument, this could actually be seen as a form of the genetic fallacy, since it seems to imply that belief systems are wrong because of how they were acquired, and not because of their merits as truth claims.

As C.S Lewis wrote,

" Suppose I think, after doing my accounts, that I have a large balance at the bank. And suppose you want to find out whether this belief of mine is "wishful thinking." You can never come to any conclusion by examining my psychological condition. Your only chance of finding out is to sit down and work through the sum yourself. When you have checked my figures, then, and then only, will you know whether I have that balance or not. If you find my arithmetic correct, then no amount of vapouring about my psychological condition can be anything but a waste of time. If you find my arithmetic wrong, then it may be relevant to explain psychologically how I came to be so bad at my arithmetic, and the doctrine of the concealed wish will become relevant — but only after you have yourself done the sum and discovered me to be wrong on purely arithmetical grounds. It is the same with all thinking and all systems of thought. If you try to find out which are tainted by speculating about the wishes of the thinkers, you are merely making a fool of yourself. You must first find out on purely logical grounds which of them do, in fact, break down as arguments. Afterwards, if you like, go on and discover the psychological causes of the error."

In the same essay, Lewis also wrote,

You must show that a man is wrong before you start explaining why he is wrong. The modern method is to assume without discussion that he is wrong and then distract his attention from this (the only real issue) by busily explaining how he became so silly. In the course of the last fifteen years I have found this vice so common that I have had to invent a name for it. I call it "Bulverism". Some day I am going to write the biography of its imaginary inventor, Ezekiel Bulver, whose destiny was determined at the age of five when he heard his mother say to his father — who had been maintaining that two sides of a triangle were together greater than a third — "Oh you say that because you are a man ." "At that moment", E. Bulver assures us, "there flashed across my opening mind the great truth that refutation is no necessary part of argument. Assume that your opponent is wrong, and the world will be at your feet. Attempt to prove that he is wrong or (worse still) try to find out whether he is wrong or right, and the national dynamism of our age will thrust you to the wall." That is how Bulver became one of the makers of the Twentieth Century.

8

Power Supplier Fired Jehovahs Witness For Wanting One Day Off to Attend Religious Convention

by Bangalore in

jw
friends

power supplier fired jehovah's witness for wanting one day off to attend religious convention.. http://thejobmouse.com/2012/01/27/power-supplier-fired-jehovah%e2%80%99s-witness-for-wanting-one-day-off-to-attend-religious-conven.

bangalore.

.

NeonMadman

I had a job where I used to get hassled that way. Frankly, as much as I think it's a bad idea to be a JW and to go to those conventions, I'm on the side of the JW woman on this issue, at least in principle. At one job in particular, I always got hassled when I requested a day off for the convention, yet other guys who wanted a day off to go to the beach or run personal errands had no problem at all. Fortunately, I always (grudgingly) was allowed the day in the end, but I could probably still have made a case for religious discrimination. This woman has the right to believe what she wishes, no matter how wrong it is, and she should be given the same freedom to practice her beliefs that other employees have. If other employees are allowed days off for personal reasons (and I'm sure they are - what company today doesn't make at least some PTO days available?), then she should be too.

What actually crossed my mind when I read this story, though, was that she may have been a problem employee in other ways, and the company just used this issue as an excuse to get rid of her. Probably a bad management decision, if that's what it was, since they are likely to lose the inevitable lawsuit.

17

Star Trek - the Borg

by finally awake in

jw
friends

it just occurred to me that we use the term "borg" when talking about the organization.

it's a cute play on words, but i wonder if the writers of star trek who came up with the idea of the borg had some experience or connection with witnesses.

.

NeonMadman

Actually, I think it was ex-JWs who co-opted the expression from Star Trek, then picked up on the fact that "Borg" makes a decent contraction of "Brooklyn Organization." Maybe in a few years we'll have to talk about the "Worg" instead?

7

Looking for ex-JW in Upstate NY

by Anony Mous in

anyone living in the upstate ny area?

i am looking for expert witnesses (ex-jw) to collaborate my story regarding jw doctrine.

i will pay for time lost, travel etc.

NeonMadman

That's a pretty good hike for me, but it's not outside the realm of possibility. What exactly are you looking for someone to do?

7

Looking for ex-JW in Upstate NY

by Anony Mous in

anyone living in the upstate ny area?

i am looking for expert witnesses (ex-jw) to collaborate my story regarding jw doctrine.

i will pay for time lost, travel etc.

NeonMadman

How far upstate are you? I live in northern NJ, right next to the NY state border.

10

are these publications legit?

by emanresu in

i was searching the 'net for collections of watchtower literature and i came across these.

has anyone ever heard of them?

are they legit?.

NeonMadman

Yes, they appear to be genuine. Not everything is actually a WTS publication. I see some early Bible Student materials and a few opposition pamphlets. But mostly, these are actual WT pubs.

27

I have never felt at home at a bar

by sabastious in

jw
friends

last night i went to the casino for a friends birthday, we played blackjack and some slots, it was a 6.5/10 on the fun scale type of night.

i got up from the blackjack table to go to the bar to get myself a drink.

i sat down at the bar and ordered my favorite drink: a long island iced tea.

NeonMadman

I know the feeling; I've always felt out of place in bars. My daughter competes in a lot of karaoke contests and likes me to come see her, but I've never been comfortable on the few occasions when we've gone. Even when I was young and single, I never enjoyed being in bars. Not sure if it's the JW thing or something else.