I should add that admission to the Photo Drama was free, at considerable expense to the Watch Tower Society. So, how does it contribute to your belief that Russell made money off of it?
Posts by vienne
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30Watch Tower History
by vienne inwe've posted updated and new research on our history blog.
http://truthhistory.blogspot.com/2018/06/temporary-post.html.
this is rough draft material for a chapter in vol.
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vienne
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Watch Tower History
by vienne inwe've posted updated and new research on our history blog.
http://truthhistory.blogspot.com/2018/06/temporary-post.html.
this is rough draft material for a chapter in vol.
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vienne
Dear Listener,
You misapprehend the nature of what you read. We do not write either a polemic or defense of the Watch Tower. We write history based on the original documents. What you read is a partial of a much larger work, not even a complete chapter. We deal with Russell’s predictive failure elsewhere. For instance in volume one of Separate Identity we included a chapter entitled Aftermath of Failure. That chapter discusses the 1878 failure. We have another that will appear in volume two [the extract you read is part of vol. 2] that discusses Russellite expectations for 1881.
You ask about the Gospel Age, calling it “up-coming.” Our text makes it clear that in Russell’s dispensationalist view it was ending. He thought it would end at or near 1914. We deal with that in another chapter.
Do we have proof that the tracts were primarily paid for by Russell? Yes, we do, and we include a chapter [vol. 2, nearing completion] entitled Organizing and Financing the Work. Put briefly, in the 1880s Russell’s readers were relatively poor due to a series of post-Civil War recessions and depressions. We have some pages from the Watch Tower ledger, sent to us by someone connected to the Watchtower’s writing department and by the Watchtower itself. Most of these list expenses. One lists the major contributors by name and amount. Russell leads the list by far. We include the full text of that page in a later chapter. Additionally, over his lifetime Russell contributed a quarter million dollars to the WTS. WT ‘shares’ were issued if requested for each ten dollars in contributions. The number of Russell’s shares reveals the amount he contributed. He was majority share-holder until his death, and outstanding shares did not pass his in number until near his death.
Court testimony (Russell v. Russell and Russell v. Brooklyn Eagle] shows that Society publications were sold at a loss or simply given away. The partial chapter you read concentrates on the years 1879-1886. All publications were given away free except for a few remaining copies of Object and Manner which were available in large lots for ten cents. Colporteurs got everything for free, keeping money from subscriptions obtained to defray expenses. In this period there were no “more substantial publications.” Money for Paton’s Day Dawn went to Paton and A. D. Jones, his publisher; not to Russell. Russell paid for copies and gave them away at no cost to those who would circulate them. This was at a financial loss to Russell.
He offered a few Bibles and concordances at a break-even discount. From 1881 when Zion’s Watch Tower Tract Society was founded until 1887, the cut off year for Separate Identity, our book, the Society was deeply in debt. A donation of Florida lands by the Russells reduced the debt but did not put the Society in the black.
You write: “It is possible that what was printed ... about the funding at that time was deceptive.” Historians shouldn’t speculate. And that’s what this is. Ethically, we can’t make things up. We must be guided by available documentation – by that I mean original material, not secondary sources – unless there is a compelling reason to reject the original claims. If you can find proof that the WTS financial statements are deceptive, we will happily include it in this chapter. But ‘proof’ isn’t speculation; it is something in a trustworthy contemporary document.
In the period on which we concentrate [to 1887] ZWT operated at a loss. Later when forced to open the books in the two court cases I mentioned earlier, it was demonstrated that even Studies in the Scriptures circulated at a net loss. The books did not pay their way.
By message of “fear,” Russell meant Hell-Fire doctrine. We should clarify that. You wrote: “This doesn’t mean there was no fear being taught through his doctrine.” You mistake current Watchtower practice with Russell era practice. Your statement exemplifies a common logic fault. You presume something was true because you want it to be true. At this point you give us unfounded speculation. Speculation drives research, but alone it is unsound. If you can find in something Russell wrote some form of fear mongering, point me to it. We’ll happily use it in the next volume of Separate Identity.
Simply because the narrowly focused extract from this chapter leads to a conclusion differing from a commonly expressed opposition narrative is no reason to call us biased. We present in footnotes our sources. You have no sources except personal opinion. “Could be” and speculation are not a refutation. Evidence from original sources would be.
https://www.amazon.com/Separate-Identity-Organizational-Readers-1870-1887/dp/1304969401
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30
Watch Tower History
by vienne inwe've posted updated and new research on our history blog.
http://truthhistory.blogspot.com/2018/06/temporary-post.html.
this is rough draft material for a chapter in vol.
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vienne
We've posted updated and new research on our history blog. http://truthhistory.blogspot.com/2018/06/temporary-post.html
This is rough draft material for a chapter in vol. 2 of Separate Identity. As rough draft it will probably change before publication. The post is temporary because of copyright issues. [People steal our stuff sometimes. Bad boys all.]
Comments that are on point are welcome.
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I Ain't Got No Religion No More ... (But I Like to Get Myself Some Gospel Music)
by Simon ini love gospel music.
i don't feel like i need to believe in "jebus" to appreciate the music.
i can't go into a gospel church because i might just get religion again - that or i'll be grabbing the mic on be on the stage waving my hands and praising the lord.. i particularly like dylan's gospel period.
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Ectopic pregnancy
by Whynot inectopic pregnancies, when detected, are usually treated by surgically removing them.
i always understood that this procedure was ok for jehovah's witnesses.
but the subject came up during pioneer school.
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vienne
In my experience, most Circuit Overseers are under educated and do not know their own doctrine. Or misunderstand what the Watchtower teaches. No surprise. Watchtower doctrine is what is in print, not what is in the distorted mind of some man who thinks he's God's mouth piece.
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Introductory Essay - Vol 2 our book
by vienne inmr. schulz has posted a rough draft of his introductory essay for volume 2 of separate identity.
i'm not certain how many here are interested, but here is the link.
comments are welcome as long as they address the issues at hand.
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vienne
Mr. Schulz has posted a rough draft of his introductory essay for volume 2 of Separate Identity. I'm not certain how many here are interested, but here is the link. Comments are welcome as long as they address the issues at hand. Our readership is roughly equally balanced between academics, Witnesses, former witnesses, and Bible Students. We try to keep it civil.
The essay is a temporary post and will come down in a few days.
https://truthhistory.blogspot.com/
Links to our books are in the blog's side bar. We do not have a publication date yet, but we're slowly getting there.
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Collaborators of Charles T. Russell and members of esoteric societies
by mizpah2 insenor samuel david (1866-1955).
citoyen américain, samuel d. senor était cultivé et instruit dans le domaine médical.
a partir de 1887, il réalisa des études de médecine, à st joseph, dans l‘etat du missouri.
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vienne
Finkl, Thanks so much. I appreciate this.
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Collaborators of Charles T. Russell and members of esoteric societies
by mizpah2 insenor samuel david (1866-1955).
citoyen américain, samuel d. senor était cultivé et instruit dans le domaine médical.
a partir de 1887, il réalisa des études de médecine, à st joseph, dans l‘etat du missouri.
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vienne
This seems to suggest guilt by association more than anything else. A good translation would help.
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Extract from Separate Identity - Vol 2
by vienne insome of you know that b. w. schulz and i have written two histories considering the watchtower's earliest years.
we have posted an extract from a chapter that will appear in volume 2 of separate identity.
because of copyright issues, the post must be temporary.
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vienne
Oh, no, they are very reluctant to share mateterial. As I noted in my introductory essay for vol 1, they sent us 8 pages of photocopy, 4 of which we already had. They refused access to a document we know they have. I do not know why a 140 year old document is withheld from researchers. The watchtower is not the only institution to do this. An Episcopal archive had a change of management that took them from openess to secretiveness for no apparent reason. Boston University refused to copy papers their archivist thought held the Methodist Church in a bad light. One of our volunteer researchers traveled there making copies for us.
The Watchtower tries to control the narrative. They are secretive when they do not need to be. I know of no other religion that treats the textbooks used to train clergy as state secrets. Secretiveness extends back to a warning to the brethren from Rutherford given sometime in the 1920s.
This is probably full of typos. I'm typing this using my cell phone, and my vision is poor enough I can't see what I've written.
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Extract from Separate Identity - Vol 2
by vienne insome of you know that b. w. schulz and i have written two histories considering the watchtower's earliest years.
we have posted an extract from a chapter that will appear in volume 2 of separate identity.
because of copyright issues, the post must be temporary.
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vienne
You mean all his personal effects? Other than a minimal amount of money left to his estranged wife, yes. However, they do not have a complete set of everything ever published.