Posts by vienne

11530

It's been a long 9 years Lloyd Evans / John Cedars

by Newly Enlightened in

original reddit post (removed).

Can you answer my questions, please?

by Sandie in

i have three questions.

i would be most grateful if someone could respond for me, please.

thank you.. 1. can jehovah's witnesses practice faith with the bible as a guide, or is it crucial to include the teachings of the watchtower society?

vienne

2. How do you explain the biblical passages that claim Jesus is God? How do you explain His own claims to be God?

The Bible does not present Jesus as God. Jesus did not claim to be God. He claimed to be God's son, stating that his father was greater than he.

11530

It's been a long 9 years Lloyd Evans / John Cedars

by Newly Enlightened in

original reddit post (removed).

Who are they? I have no clue. But if we ask 'what are they' we can safely suppose that they are deluded, or that they are as immoral as Lloyd is. Some probably think that the enemy of their enemy is their friend. That's silly.

However, his support stream is drying up. He is obviously desperate for money. He should go back to the old days and actually get a job. Maybe washing windows.

28

Jesus as 'The mighty + almighty God'

by JW Answers in

jehovah's witnesses refuse to believe that jesus is the almighty god.

they would state that jesus is 'mighty', but not almighty.. below is a 30 minute video proving from the word of god that the lord jesus christ is both mighty and almighty, separate from the father but equal too.. the verses used from scripture show without a doubt that christ is mighty (isaiah 9:6) and almighty (rev 1:7-8)..

vienne

S.B., you misrepresent what Hebrews says about the Christ. In chapter one Paul, presumed to be the writer, describes Jesus as "the express image" of God's person. An image is not the person himself, but a reflection of that person. Paul here rephrases what he we find in Colossians 1:15. χαρακτὴρ ['image'] derives from minting coins. The image on a coin is not the person himself, but a representation of him. Jesus, in turn, isn't God, but so carefully mirrors him that in substance and personality he is exactly like his father.

So how is Jesus relationship to his father explained in Hebrews? The answer - a very exact answer - is found at Hebrews 5:7. Certainly you've read that, but you seem to have missed its import. The verse says: "In the days of his flesh, Jesus offered up prayers and supplications, with loud cries and tears, to him who was able to save him from death, and he was heard because of his reverence." Let's think that through. Jesus prayed. God has no need to petition himself. If Jesus was God, he remained so when human. The verse says he was heard. Some versions say he was heard because of his Godly fear, others because of his piety. The ERV I quoted above says reverence. What are these things. Are they not alternate words for 'worship'? Vines Expository Dictionary suggests that's the meaning here. And Vine though Trinitarian was honest enough to say so. So who did Jesus worship? Certainly not himself.

He prayed to be saved from death. God cannot die. Jesus was not a God-man. His death, a true death, was essential to ransom mankind from sin and death. That he died for us demonstrates that he was not Almighty God.

One who worships and prays to another is less than the one to whom they pray.

Hebrews continues: "Though he was Son [of God] by nature, yet He learned obedience from the things which He suffered having brought to the place of completeness." (Wuest) God isn't obedient to anyone. Jesus had to learn obedience to fulfil his role as savior. God need not learn anything. He already knows what there is to know. Jesus is not almighty God in any sense.

Now what is this "place of completeness" as K. Wuest has it? Wuest seem to avoid the word 'perfection' used in other translations, but he leaves us with the thought that Jesus had to be made complete in some way. God is complete in himself and cannot be otherwise. Robertson [Word Pictures, in locum cit.] says the Greek word τελειωθεὶς (Having been perfected) suggests a "completion of the process of training." Since when does Almighty God need training? Jesus is not almighty God.

Hebrews 5:10 continues by saying that Jesus was designated/appointed ( προσαγορευθεὶς) by God high priest. The Lesser is sent forth or appointed by the Greater. A servant is not greater than his master, but less. In every respect Paul has Jesus as less than and subservient to God. Jesus is not Almighty God.

3

JW Harrasment

by enigma1863 in

as most probably know scientology harasses stalks and even spreads lies about their former members to convince you not to trust them.

they are very good at smearing peoples names.. has their been any evidence the jw organization uses the same methods on specific individuals?

i don’t mean the general all apostates are bad stories posted for the rank and file.

vienne

I have never seen any evidence of this, at least on an official level. Witnesses treat me as if I were one of their own, but then I'm not a former adherent. I've asked about former members in a general way. The answers are occasionally specific, most often mourning the disaffection of a friend or relative. I see tears, and some have told me they pray for those who have left.

Witnesses may be off the mark in some things, but generally they're very nice people, and their faith has made them what they are.

8

Manipulation through emitional acting?

by road to nowhere in

we had a co talk touching on resurrection, death, seeing family again.

the brother went into scenarios about his family, complete with tears.

i question getting that emotional every time he gives this talk.

vienne

I agree with you. Jesus did not preach that way. Neither did Paul. Acts 9:22 says that Paul's preaching was logical, not emotional.

"But Saul kept on acquiring power all the more and was confounding the Jews that dwelt in Damascus as he proved logically that this is the Christ" is how the NWT puts it. Proving is συμβιβάζων. It's usually just rendered proving without the added logically. But the basic meaning of the word is "to join together" implying a logical argument. While one can be logical and somewhat emotional, in Paul's preaching the logical part prevailed. So shouldn't Watchtower official copy that pattern?

31

Hobbies

by peacefulpete in

jw
friends

i think it's been a while since this was asked.

tell us your hobbies, interests, pastimes, whatever you find enjoyable as a diversion from work and school.

i am lucky enough to live in a small cabin on a lake, i enjoy rowing my old boat and fishing, i play with car projects, and we travel as much as we can.

vienne

I inherited my mom's stamp and coin collections. My money is limited. Textbooks come first. But I add to them as I can. Other than that, I read. Love to read. Read incessantly.

My mom participated in long distance black-powder distance shooting. She was an excellent shot. None of my sisters wanted her guns, so they came to me. I've shot her 45-90 Highwall a few times. And no, though I'm as small as my mom was, it didn't knock me onto my butt. It's a fun hobby, but I don't have time for it now. Maybe after I finish my master's degree.

11530

It's been a long 9 years Lloyd Evans / John Cedars

by Newly Enlightened in

original reddit post (removed).

vienne

vint,

Yes, he got a haircut, combed his hair, put on a suit, but with brown shoes and an black suit. He not quite there yet, and a bit of personal clean up does not change what's inside.

59

Why isn't this forum growing like reddit exjw??

by nowwhat? in

admittedly it 90% crap over there but still they are up to 80k in subscribers.

over here it's the same half dozen or so that posts something, including myself.

why is that?.

vienne

How is it right wing? I do not see that. But down votes are okay with me, as long as you read it and think about it. Rejecting it because it makes you uncomfortable is proof of what I wrote.

59

Why isn't this forum growing like reddit exjw??

by nowwhat? in

admittedly it 90% crap over there but still they are up to 80k in subscribers.

over here it's the same half dozen or so that posts something, including myself.

why is that?.

vienne

Mine is an outsider's point of view.

I read most of the posts here. Some are thoughtful and well done. Some, occasionally many, are illiterate and based on poor research. We get those who believe any negative thing they read on the Internet. Their posts are a huge turn off; though they interest me because of my master's thesis [in the works], they are cringe-worthy and won't convince an informed believer.

Spelling errors are common on the World-Wide Web. I try to take care when I post somewhere, but they creep out. And most often here, they're just typos. [e.g. "Maeby after thousands and thousands comments"] But when they're consistent, they indicate a low-level to almost non existent education. That effects thinking ability, and it shows in the post's content. Read up in this comment chain and you'll find a few. The solution must take place on an individual basis. That is, if we know we lack mental training and an informative education, we should seek to remedy that. "Seek wisdom" says one of the Proverbs. And stop being gullible.

One's education should continue through out a life time. I like challenging thoughts. I'm not satisfied until I've either rejected or accepted a new thought - on the basis of rational research. Working with Uncle B has put me to the test many times. It's fun. But I see here some whose response to a challenge is anger and ad hominem. That must lead to a frustrating, unsatisfying life.

Some who post here did not really know their former religion. As Witnesses they took in what others said without delving into it. Be a Berean. Put things to the test. You see these posters when they ask a question about Witness belief that they should have been able to answer on their own with the most basic Witness 'education.' This saddens me. They've brought into their life away from the Watchtower the same problems that caused them issues as a Witness. Again, this is something only the individual can remedy. My grand uncle says "thinking hurts." In fact neurologists have found that intense thought swells brain cells, and thinking can become uncomfortable. In my student-teacher experience I saw students who resisted thinking because it made them uncomfortable. There are free programs in most school districts for adult education. Take a few. Stretch out. Educate yourself.

Some of us, probably most of us, have a firmly planted belief system, not just religiously but in every other aspect of life. That's how people are. But some of those who post here resist challenges to their beliefs without giving them a thoughtful consideration. When we do that we go through life three quarters blind.

Okay, the person who usually down-votes my post can do that now. The rest of you, I wish well.