vienne

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Posts by vienne

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  67

  Russell's aleged freemasonry on JWfacts.com

  by NikL in

  1. jw
  2. friends

  paul has written an interesting piece on jwfacts.com .

  https://jwfacts.com/watchtower/blog/russell-not-a-freemason.php.

  anyway, it jogged my memory and reminded me of something i thought i would pass on to you.back in the late 80s i had the opportunity to chat with ray franz on the phone and i asked him about this very thing.he didn't say yes or no to russel's masonic connection but what he said was something like, "he is buried in the masonic section of the cemetery so draw your own conclusion.

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  vienne

  We should note that plagiarize has a very specific meaning. Holding doctrines similar to or the same as others is not plagiarism. Russell drew from a very narrow set of doctrines, those held by the Age-to-Come/One Faith movement as represented by The Restitution, a religious newspaper. Some claim he was a closet Adventist. He wasn't. None of his doctrine came from Adventism, and all Adventist bodies opposed him.

  He read widely from the religious press, often quoting from or mentioning the books and periodicals he read. But he had a narrow doctrinal set, not really meant to please others. If he had plagiarized from others to draw adherents, he would have taught popular doctrine. He did not.

  Nothing he taught is original. But why would we expect it to be? He sought the 'old theology,' original New Testament doctrine. He did not seek something novel as did Mary Baker Eddy.

  Again, from our book:

  Russell saw himself as a kind of cut-and-paste Bible Student, reassembling from scattered sources the Old Theology. Russell said as much in 1889:

  We must disclaim any credit even for the finding and rearrangement of the jewels of truth. “It is the Lord’s doing, and it is marvelous in our eyes.” The writer wholly disclaims superior ability or qualification for the reorganization of the truth in its present solidarity. As the time had come for the bringing together of the scattered thoughts of past centuries in the marvelous inventions of our day, – so the time had come for the bringing together of the fragmentary hopes and promises of God’s Word scattered through Christendom. To deny that the Lord has simply “poured out” this harvest time blessing of “present truth” in his own due time and in his own way, would be as wrong as to claim it as of our own invention. … It came gradually, silently, as comes the morning dawn: the only effort necessary was to keep awake and face in the right direction. And the greatest aid in so doing was the effort put forth to awaken others of the “household of faith” and point them to the light and in turn to urge upon them the necessity for serving also, if they would overcome the lethargic “spirit of the world,” and be ready to go in to the marriage of the Lamb.[1]
  

  
  

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  [1] C. T. Russell: Views from the Watch Tower, Zion’s Watch Tower, April 15, 1899, page 87.
• 
  67

  Russell's aleged freemasonry on JWfacts.com

  by NikL in

  1. jw
  2. friends

  paul has written an interesting piece on jwfacts.com .

  https://jwfacts.com/watchtower/blog/russell-not-a-freemason.php.

  anyway, it jogged my memory and reminded me of something i thought i would pass on to you.back in the late 80s i had the opportunity to chat with ray franz on the phone and i asked him about this very thing.he didn't say yes or no to russel's masonic connection but what he said was something like, "he is buried in the masonic section of the cemetery so draw your own conclusion.

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  vienne

  Finkle, you find it probable because you wish it to be so, not on any evidence. The cross and crown feature on Zion's Watch Tower's later issues was a common and commercially produced type fixture [matrix], used on 'Christian' publications.

  Here is what Schulz and I say in Separate Identity, volume 1:

  Symbolisms

  Decorative motifs found on Watch Tower publications are interpreted as Masonic. From an early date a cross and crown design appeared on Zion’s Watch Tower’s front cover. Because it was also used on Masonic paraphernalia, notably on the ceremonial swords, the presumption is that Russell borrowed from Masonic forms, covertly announcing to all “in the know” his Masonic connections. The logic flaws behind this reasoning are astounding.

  Cross and Crown

  Masonic use of the cross and crown symbolism derives from Christian usage. The symbolism became popular in the 17th Century at least in Christian phraseology. In 1621, Francis Quarles wrote the poem Hadassa: The History of Queene Ester. It contains this couplet:

  The way to bliss lies not on beds of down,

  And he that has no cross deserves no crown.

  There is a high probability that William Penn took the title of his famous essay No Cross, No Crown from Quarles’ poem. From Penn and others who wrote similarly, the cross and crown coupling became popular. For instance, Matthew Henry observed in his Exposition of the Old and New Testaments (published in several volumes between 1708 and 1710): “We only bear the cross for a while, but we shall wear the crown to eternity.”

  By mid-19th Century the phrase, “we must all bear the cross before we can wear the crown” had become common, finding its way into poems, homelies, sermons and common speech. Russell would have heard it repeated ad nausium. The cross and crown was found as an embroidery pattern; it found a place on Sunday school pins, on convention ribbons, and on jewelry, and this long before it appeared on the Watch Tower’s front cover or on a Masonic sword. The cross and crown symbol found on The Watch Tower in the early 1890s is a combination of type matrixes commonly found in a printers type drawer. The revised version from the later 1890s is a single type face, also common in usage.

  
  

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  [1] See his commentary on James in any complete edition. He made the comment when considering James chapter one.
• 
  67

  Russell's aleged freemasonry on JWfacts.com

  by NikL in

  1. jw
  2. friends

  paul has written an interesting piece on jwfacts.com .

  https://jwfacts.com/watchtower/blog/russell-not-a-freemason.php.

  anyway, it jogged my memory and reminded me of something i thought i would pass on to you.back in the late 80s i had the opportunity to chat with ray franz on the phone and i asked him about this very thing.he didn't say yes or no to russel's masonic connection but what he said was something like, "he is buried in the masonic section of the cemetery so draw your own conclusion.

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  vienne

  finkel, can you list the times and places when Russell spoke in a masonic hall?
  
• 
  67

  Russell's aleged freemasonry on JWfacts.com

  by NikL in

  1. jw
  2. friends

  paul has written an interesting piece on jwfacts.com .

  https://jwfacts.com/watchtower/blog/russell-not-a-freemason.php.

  anyway, it jogged my memory and reminded me of something i thought i would pass on to you.back in the late 80s i had the opportunity to chat with ray franz on the phone and i asked him about this very thing.he didn't say yes or no to russel's masonic connection but what he said was something like, "he is buried in the masonic section of the cemetery so draw your own conclusion.

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  vienne

  fukitol, would you care to submit proof that some of the GB are masons ....
  
• 
  67

  Russell's aleged freemasonry on JWfacts.com

  by NikL in

  1. jw
  2. friends

  paul has written an interesting piece on jwfacts.com .

  https://jwfacts.com/watchtower/blog/russell-not-a-freemason.php.

  anyway, it jogged my memory and reminded me of something i thought i would pass on to you.back in the late 80s i had the opportunity to chat with ray franz on the phone and i asked him about this very thing.he didn't say yes or no to russel's masonic connection but what he said was something like, "he is buried in the masonic section of the cemetery so draw your own conclusion.

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  vienne

  Also, my name is Rachael. It's okay to call me that if you want.
  
• 
  67

  Russell's aleged freemasonry on JWfacts.com

  by NikL in

  1. jw
  2. friends

  paul has written an interesting piece on jwfacts.com .

  https://jwfacts.com/watchtower/blog/russell-not-a-freemason.php.

  anyway, it jogged my memory and reminded me of something i thought i would pass on to you.back in the late 80s i had the opportunity to chat with ray franz on the phone and i asked him about this very thing.he didn't say yes or no to russel's masonic connection but what he said was something like, "he is buried in the masonic section of the cemetery so draw your own conclusion.

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  vienne

  As far as his death date goes, do you really think he planned to die on Halloween? He thought he'd live long enough to be taken to heaven, given a spirit body and rule with Christ as part of the Little Flock. His death on a train wasn't planned. It just happened, as most human events do.
  
• 
  67

  Russell's aleged freemasonry on JWfacts.com

  by NikL in

  1. jw
  2. friends

  paul has written an interesting piece on jwfacts.com .

  https://jwfacts.com/watchtower/blog/russell-not-a-freemason.php.

  anyway, it jogged my memory and reminded me of something i thought i would pass on to you.back in the late 80s i had the opportunity to chat with ray franz on the phone and i asked him about this very thing.he didn't say yes or no to russel's masonic connection but what he said was something like, "he is buried in the masonic section of the cemetery so draw your own conclusion.

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  vienne

  It wasn't a Roman toga. He was wrapped in a sheet at his request because of body pain. His last illness made it impossible to tolerate normal bed clothes. Seeking a outré explanation from something with a more rational explanation is illogical.

  People like Maxwell find in easily understood acts conspiracies and symbolism that do not exist. The best approach is to find the simplest explanation. There are conspiracies. History is full of them. Asking for comfort in one's last hours is not part of a conspiracy.

  Others have connected this to the white robes of Revelation. That's nonsense too.
  

  
  
  
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  4

  Anyone have a scan of this ...

  by vienne in

  1. watchtower
  2. beliefs

  about 1910 the brethren writer william d. forsyth self published a booklet entitled israel's greater faith contrasted with zion's watch tower.

  i need a copy to further current research.

  anyone?

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  vienne

  Thanks Splash. The libraries mentioned are all in the UK and charge international users an arm and a leg. We pay research expenses out of our own pocket. I need free or very inexpensive.
  
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  19

  Reaction of Governing Body Belies More than their Accusation

  by carefullyread in

  1. watchtower
  2. bible

  a disfellowshiped brother wrote a letter of disquisition to the governing body of wbts a little while ago.

  it was not in any way nasty, derogatory, rude, blasphemous, or with profanity but it was civil, truthful, & very informative that some have described as extremely truthful to enlightening, an ebullient disclosure.

  i got to see some paraphrases extracted from it that have been circulating quietly or rather secretly passed around & i agree with the latter description.. the governing body was greatly perturbed, alarmed, to confused with this letter particularly as they became aware several of the congregation were also sent copies which some of the local congregational elders raised controversial questions about but mainly was dismissed by them without reading, to scoffing & ridicule but some also saw something more truthful to concern them.

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  vienne

  Let's see scans of the letters to which you refer.
  
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  67

  Russell's aleged freemasonry on JWfacts.com

  by NikL in

  1. jw
  2. friends

  paul has written an interesting piece on jwfacts.com .

  https://jwfacts.com/watchtower/blog/russell-not-a-freemason.php.

  anyway, it jogged my memory and reminded me of something i thought i would pass on to you.back in the late 80s i had the opportunity to chat with ray franz on the phone and i asked him about this very thing.he didn't say yes or no to russel's masonic connection but what he said was something like, "he is buried in the masonic section of the cemetery so draw your own conclusion.

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  vienne

  No, you misstate what I said. I'm saying that no matter what Masons thought about the Pyramid, Russell did not come to his belief from that source. The pyramid is not a Masonic symbol today. It was in the fairly distant past. But none of Russell's beliefs about the Great Pyramid come from or are parallel to Masonic teaching.

  Russell names the authors he read. He names many of the publications and periodicals he read. That trail leads us to Smyth, Ford, Seiss, The Restitution and similar sources. Seiss and others saw it as the stone witness of Isaiah's prophecy. So did Russell. They did not see a Masonic connection but a divine one.