vienne

Joined

• started 95 topics
• posted 1,352 times   see topics posted on
• send a message

Posts by vienne

• 
  177

  Charles T Russell -a freemason and the connection to the illuminati...

  by dolphman in

  1. jw
  2. friends

  ok, i'm not one for conspiracy theories but lately i've uncovered some interesting facts that i think warrant some attention.. first of all, russell was a freemason.

  all the early watchtower and books he authored have freemason symbology and art throughout them.

  not a big deal i thought, until i read more about freemasons and the so-called "illuminati", a group of 13 families that supposedly control the world.. supposedly these 13 families, such as the duponts, mcdonalds, kennedys, .

  1. 
  2. 
  3. 
• 

  vienne

  Vid, you made me laugh.
  
• 
  177

  Charles T Russell -a freemason and the connection to the illuminati...

  by dolphman in

  1. jw
  2. friends

  ok, i'm not one for conspiracy theories but lately i've uncovered some interesting facts that i think warrant some attention.. first of all, russell was a freemason.

  all the early watchtower and books he authored have freemason symbology and art throughout them.

  not a big deal i thought, until i read more about freemasons and the so-called "illuminati", a group of 13 families that supposedly control the world.. supposedly these 13 families, such as the duponts, mcdonalds, kennedys, .

  1. 
  2. 
  3. 
• 

  vienne

  Pyramidology in the Russell era had nothing to do with the occult. It was widely believed even by well known religious figures and archaeologists. It's acceptance was short lived.

  From Separate Identity, vol 1:

  The Witness of the Great Pyramid

  They were introduced to speculations about the Great Pyramid of Giza at least by 1875.[1] How soon they adopted the view that the pyramid was God’s “great stone witness on the border of Egypt” is unknown, but it must have been in this era. As with so much else, claims made about Russell’s belief that the Great Pyramid was a secondary witness to the divine message are often wholly or partly false. One writer suggests that Storrs introduced Pyramidology to “the Millerites,” and that belief centered in Adventist bodies. Those who lack persistence and skill as researchers, the lazy and polemicists may have an interest in limiting belief to “fringe” groups, but this distorts the record. Pyramidology was discussed in America at least by 1861.[2] Believers were a diverse group that ran the spectrum from Astrologers to Thomas De Witt Talmage, a popular Presbyterian and Reformed pastor, who had “no doubt” that Isaiah’s reference to a stone witnesses on the border of Egypt meant the Great Pyramid.[3]

  Charles Piazzi Smyth, Astronomer Royal for Scotland, popularized and elaborated the theories of John Taylor, who without visiting the pyramid suggested that it was constructed by Noah. Smyth traveled to Egypt, examining and measuring the pyramid. He penned Our Inheritance in the Great Pyramid which was published in 1864. It attributed the Great Pyramid to Melchizedek and gave it a scientific and religious import. Smyth’s theories gained a following among Egyptologists, not the least of whom was William Matthew Flinders Petrie. But when Flinders Petrie traveled to Egypt in 1880, making his own measurements he found so many flaws in Smyth’s theory that he abandoned it, calling it “lamentable nonsense.” By the end of the 19th Century no reputable Egyptologist supported it.

  James K. Walker, president of the Watchman Fellowship, suggested that Pyramidology was “a major source of revelation” for Russell, writing that Russell admitted to this. As is true of most of what Mr. Walker writes, this is absurd. At least one writer claims that Pyramidology attracted Adventists primarily, and many claim that pyramid belief was rank superstition, occultism, or connected to the Masons. All of this is wrong, some of it out of context and some contrived. Certainly, Walker’s claim that Russell was dependent on pyramid measurement for his chronology is false. Ron Rhodes described Russell’s belief that the pyramid fulfilled Isaiah’s prophecy as “cornerstone component” of his belief system. This is also false.

  In 1881, Russell wrote that he had “great respect” for the teaching of the Great Pyramid, adding, “We do not build our faith upon it. It has well been called ‘A Miracle in Stone,’ and it commends itself to us as a work of God, and not planned by men, for it seems in every respect to be in perfect accord with God’s plan as we are finding it written in His Word; and this it is, that causes our respect for it.”[4] It is no more true that Russell found in the pyramid a cornerstone of his theology than it is of Clarence Larkin, the Baptist expositor, who also saw the pyramid as God’s stone witness on the border of Egypt.

  Russell was introduced to Pyramidology through his One Faith and Millennialist connections. Storrs, writers for Age-to-Come journals, and others promoted Smyth’s ideas and added thoughts of their own. Thomas Wilson’s Our Rest focused on the dual themes of Christ’s return and the Great Pyramid. Russell could not have avoided the discussion. The quotation above shows us that he read J. A. Seiss’ Miracle in Stone when it was published in 1877. Seiss published on the theme in 1869, but while Russell may have read that tract we cannot prove he did. The nature of the Great Pyramid was the subject of lectures, pamphlets, books and public discussion. If it later became the pet theory of fringe religion and occultists, it was not that in this era. We honor Isaac Newton for his science. We forget that when everyone else believed Phlogiston was a scientific reality, he did too. If he were alive today, we’d raise our eyebrows and scoff. Context is everything here. Put in context, Russell’s adoption of Smyth’s theory made him a man of his times. He believed it when others did.

  Seiss, whose works are still published, is honored as a serious and scholarly exegete. Others of repute in the religious world found the theory attractive. A long list of favorable reviews of his Miracle in Stone appeared in the religious and secular press. The Illustrated Christian Weekly expressed some reservations but recommended it. The Reformed Church Messenger approached it in the same way. So did The Christian Intelligencer. Messiah’s Herald wrote, “We’re glad that it is being studied by men of learning and piety; and those who have a taste for study in that direction, will find many things in this volume to help them.” We do not know how Russell was introduced to Seiss’ book. He probably heard of it from various sources. The Pittsburgh Dispatch reviewed it, saying: “The lectures of Dr. Seiss are as remarkable for the polished beauty of their construction, as for the information which they contain. That mysterious pillar, the Great Pyramid of Gizeh, its relation to ancient history, modern discoveries, and Bible connections, are thoroughly canvassed in this volume.” If we are to fault Russell at all, it is for believing the theory long after its defects were apparent.

  
  

  ---

  [1] The Great Pyramid, Bible Examiner, 1875, page 233 ff.

  [2] 1861 New York Tribune Almanac, page 3.

  [3] T. De Witt Talmage: Lesson of the Pyramid, The Peekskill, New York, Highland Democrat, October 24, 1891.

  [4] C. T. Russell: The Year 1881, Zion’s Watch Tower, May 1881, page 5.

  https://www.amazon.com/Separate-Identity-Organizational-Readers-1870-1887/dp/1304969401
  
• 
  177

  Charles T Russell -a freemason and the connection to the illuminati...

  by dolphman in

  1. jw
  2. friends

  ok, i'm not one for conspiracy theories but lately i've uncovered some interesting facts that i think warrant some attention.. first of all, russell was a freemason.

  all the early watchtower and books he authored have freemason symbology and art throughout them.

  not a big deal i thought, until i read more about freemasons and the so-called "illuminati", a group of 13 families that supposedly control the world.. supposedly these 13 families, such as the duponts, mcdonalds, kennedys, .

  1. 
  2. 
  3. 
• 

  vienne

  In what way was Russell "deeply involved into the occult"? And what masonic symbols did he use?
  
• 
  177

  Charles T Russell -a freemason and the connection to the illuminati...

  by dolphman in

  1. jw
  2. friends

  ok, i'm not one for conspiracy theories but lately i've uncovered some interesting facts that i think warrant some attention.. first of all, russell was a freemason.

  all the early watchtower and books he authored have freemason symbology and art throughout them.

  not a big deal i thought, until i read more about freemasons and the so-called "illuminati", a group of 13 families that supposedly control the world.. supposedly these 13 families, such as the duponts, mcdonalds, kennedys, .

  1. 
  2. 
  3. 
• 

  vienne

  Answered in detail before. Russell was not a Mason, had no connection to the Rothschilds, did not know of anything called the Illuminati. Giving a speech in a rented masonic hall did not make him a Mason. He is not buried under a pyramid. He is not buried in a Masonic cemetery. His belief in the significance of the Great Pyramid came from P. Smyth not Masons.
  
• 
  57

  interesting EX-CO AMA ( Ask Me Anything) over on exjwreddit

  by Diogenesister in

  1. jw
  2. experiences

  ex-circuit overseer here, ama.

  https://www.reddit.com/r/exjw/comments/6usaky/excircuit_overseer_here_ama/.

  1. 
  2. 
  3. 
• 

  vienne

  From context, I believe he was in Honduras.
  
• 
  9

  When was the book of Lamentations written?

  by Jules Saturn in

  1. watchtower
  2. bible

  so i was researching about 587 and 607 and couldn't help but notice that the wbts states that the writing of the book of lamentations was written by jeremiah near jerusalem and was completed in 607 bc.

  chapters 2 and 4 of this book describe jehovah's anger towards jerusalem and the terrible effects of jerusalem's siege taking place in chapter 4. can someone clear this up?

  was this book written in 607?

  1. 
  2. 
  3. 
• 

  vienne

  There is no way to date Lamentations to a specific year. Doing so is, from a historian's point of view, unethical. Even dating Lamentations to the event is problematic. My personal opinion is that it contemporary to Jerusalem's fall. But my steely-eyed historian's approach would not let me write that it is positively so because there is no way to unfailingly prove it so.

  The book is important for its content. It does not support a date.
  
• 
  14

  Simon O. Blunden, Watch Tower Director

  by vienne in

  1. watchtower
  2. beliefs

  i've uploaded two new-to-me newspaper articles about blunden to our history blog.. https://truthhistory.blogspot.com/.

  we urgently need a photo for our next book.

  can you help me locate a photo of blunden?.

  1. 
  2. 
  3. 
• 

  vienne

  dropoff, he was part of the original board of directors chosen with incorporation and continued as a director until 1908. We have a fairly extensive biography of him that will appear in volume 2 of Separate Identity. He owned a 'fancy store', selling women's accessories. It seems to have failed and he became a traveling wholesaler, preaching as he traveled. He was arrested once on a clergyman's complaint. He preached extensively in the New York City area and in Brooklyn which was a separate city at the time.

  He parted from Russell in 1908, but the details can only be surmised. A major schism arose that year over an aspect of Atonement doctrine. His resignation from the board seems connected to that.

  He and another Watch Tower evangelist started something called The New Church where Millennial Dawn readers met.

  We will tell more of his story in vol 2 of http://www.lulu.com/us/en/shop/b-w-schulz/a-separate-identity-organizational-identity-among-readers-of-zions-watch-tower-1870-1887/paperback/product-21546337.html
  
• 
  14

  Simon O. Blunden, Watch Tower Director

  by vienne in

  1. watchtower
  2. beliefs

  i've uploaded two new-to-me newspaper articles about blunden to our history blog.. https://truthhistory.blogspot.com/.

  we urgently need a photo for our next book.

  can you help me locate a photo of blunden?.

  1. 
  2. 
  3. 
• 

  vienne

  wifi, stellar research. thanks

  outlaw: I wish you well with future surgeries.
  
• 
  14

  Simon O. Blunden, Watch Tower Director

  by vienne in

  1. watchtower
  2. beliefs

  i've uploaded two new-to-me newspaper articles about blunden to our history blog.. https://truthhistory.blogspot.com/.

  we urgently need a photo for our next book.

  can you help me locate a photo of blunden?.

  1. 
  2. 
  3. 
• 

  vienne

  Are the surgeries helping? My vision is still impaired in my left eye. You may be full of cr*p but I am sorry you're going through eye-health problems.
  
• 
  14

  Simon O. Blunden, Watch Tower Director

  by vienne in

  1. watchtower
  2. beliefs

  i've uploaded two new-to-me newspaper articles about blunden to our history blog.. https://truthhistory.blogspot.com/.

  we urgently need a photo for our next book.

  can you help me locate a photo of blunden?.

  1. 
  2. 
  3. 
• 

  vienne

  Didn't get the first name right either, but I am sympathetic over your eyes. I had cataract surgery at an early age. It's miserable.

  Got closer than I did? I found his real grave on find-a-grave. I have a large file of material on his life and a decent biography of him. YOU found SAMUEL and who knows who THAT is .... Good job.