vienne

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Posts by vienne

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  94

  New GB

  by XBEHERE in

  1. jw
  2. friends

  gage fleegle.

  jeffrey winder.

  anyone know them?

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  vienne

  Two classes for salvation didn't come from Rutherford. Russell believed there were three classes of saved: the 144K, a secondary spiritual class not quite reaching faith required of the 144K, and those who inherited a paradise earth.

  Current Witness doctrine derives from earlier 19th Century sources, among them an Anglican writer, Isidore Heath, who wrote The Future Human Kingdom of Christ. This book influenced Henry Dunn. I don't know that Russell read Heath's book, but he read much of Dunn's material as republished by Storrs. None of the heavenly/earthly class teaching came from Rutherford. What he did was to eliminate the thought that there was a secondary, less faithful, heavenly class.

  The Separate Identity series [2 vols. so far] considers the origins of Watchtower theology in considerable detail.

  https://www.lulu.com/search?contributor=B.+W.+Schulz&page=1&pageSize=10&adult_audience_rating=00
  
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  11530

  It's been a long 9 years Lloyd Evans / John Cedars

  by Newly Enlightened in

  1. watchtower
  2. scandals

  original reddit post (removed).

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  vienne

  He's not bored. This is a plea to make it all go away. It wont of course. Poor, poor Lloyd boy
• 
  94

  New GB

  by XBEHERE in

  1. jw
  2. friends

  gage fleegle.

  jeffrey winder.

  anyone know them?

  1. 
  2. 
  3. 
• 

  vienne

  I've met a few Witnesses who claim divine anointing. They're all very old. I think Witness doctrine is off the mark. I don't dispute that some Witnesses receive divine anointing, but I cannot see the 144 thousand number as anything but symbolic.
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  8

  Was Satan in Heaven while Christ was crucified?

  by Sharpie in

  1. watchtower
  2. beliefs

  just a shower thought came to mind.. while jesus was nailed to the stake/cross (take your pick) because of the witnesses lack of belief in hell.

  does that mean according to witness doctrine that satan and his demons were in heaven while jesus was being executed?.

  what about after jesus went to heaven?

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  vienne

  Saran in heaven when Jesus died? I dont know, but you can ask him.
• 

  Research Help, Maybe

  by vienne in

  1. watchtower
  2. beliefs

  between writing an essay and working part-time, i'm trying to help uncle b with volume three of his separate identity series.

  probably most of you know what that is, but in case you do not: shop the independent bookstore | lulu.

  volume three traces the fragmentation that occurred after the 1881 failure.

• 

  vienne

  Hi everyone,

  Between writing an essay and working part-time, I'm trying to help uncle B with volume three of his Separate Identity series. Probably most of you know what that is, but in case you do not: Shop the Independent Bookstore | Lulu

  Volume three traces the fragmentation that occurred after the 1881 failure. Resources as we have them are the available issues of Paton's World's Hope, some scattered issues of A. P. Adams' Spirit of the Word, and what issues of Herald of the Morning we could find. There are many missing "bits and pieces."

  Missing is a booklet by Barbour critical of Zion's Watch Tower. It's mentioned in The Herald, but seems not to exist. We have two letters by Paton. Neither is important. That is, they don't add to the story. We have Paton's post-Russell books.

  No letters by Barbour seem to exist, yet we know he was a prolific letter writer. No issues of H. B. Rice's magazine seem to exist. But these things must be out there somewhere. We need material that plugs research holes. If there are letters by the Russells from the 1880-1890 period, we could not find them. If you can add to any of this, please do. [That's a bit like asking for the deed to the moon.]

  I don't need your personal opinion of these men. We're historians, not polemicists. Besides, part of the story is what they say about each other. Not always very nice, as you can imagine.

  If you can add to our resources, please do. I appreciate any help you can give.
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  42

  Just courius, some questions about the past

  by Gorb in

  1. jw
  2. friends

  curious.

  time goes by so fast.

  who remembers 1975, the ray franz incident, the generation change in 1995, the blood fractions, alternative service, participation in ochr, aid afrique, the historical research by james pellechia, jolene chu and johannes stephan wrobel?

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  vienne

  thankfor your comments.
• 
  42

  Just courius, some questions about the past

  by Gorb in

  1. jw
  2. friends

  curious.

  time goes by so fast.

  who remembers 1975, the ray franz incident, the generation change in 1995, the blood fractions, alternative service, participation in ochr, aid afrique, the historical research by james pellechia, jolene chu and johannes stephan wrobel?

  1. 
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  vienne

  I suppose I'm being a pest, asking questions. Waton, I don't understand your post. As I understand it, Witnesses returned to seeing the superior authorities as governments in 1958. Please elaborate.
• 
  42

  Just courius, some questions about the past

  by Gorb in

  1. jw
  2. friends

  curious.

  time goes by so fast.

  who remembers 1975, the ray franz incident, the generation change in 1995, the blood fractions, alternative service, participation in ochr, aid afrique, the historical research by james pellechia, jolene chu and johannes stephan wrobel?

  1. 
  2. 
  3. 
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  vienne

  I'm not old enough to remember these things, though I know of most of them. What is the historical research event? Please explain.
• 
  11530

  It's been a long 9 years Lloyd Evans / John Cedars

  by Newly Enlightened in

  1. watchtower
  2. scandals

  original reddit post (removed).

  1. 
  2. 
  3. 
• 

  vienne

  I think Lloyd's worst problem is finally understanding that he is irrelevant, other than as a topic of conversation, and that he has no control over his life.
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  17

  Research project: A study designed to explore the experience of leaving the Jehovah’s Witnesses

  by Researcher2023 in

  1. jw
  2. friends

  as part of a psychology msc research project, i am looking for participants to take part in a study designed to explore the experience of leaving the jehovah’s witnesses.. former witnesses who were raised in the organisation will be asked a few questions about their reasons for leaving, their experience of leaving, and how their life has changed since leaving.. taking part involves completing an interview over the internet.

  according to research needs, the number of questions asked in each interview may vary.

  the interview will take between 5 – 90 minutes depending on the questions asked and the level of detail you wish to provide.. your participation will remain confidential and anonymous, and it is completely voluntary so that you may withdraw at any time up to two weeks after the interview.

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  vienne

  Hi,

  I'm not a Witness and never have been, so I cannot participate, but I'd like to read the finished product. Will you post it online?

  Julia Gutgsell's master's thesis was on a similar topic. Her title was 'A Loving Provision'? How Former Jehovah's Witnesses Experience Shunning Practices. [Vrije Universiteit, Brussels, 2017] Mom [R. M. de Vienne, PhD] corresponded with Julia, but I don't have access to the emails. [We deleted mom's email account after she died.] However, I know that Mom's primary observation was that Julia's work lacked the balance that any academic work should have. Ms Gutgsell interviewed former Witnesses but failed to consider those who returned. Do you plan on interviewing those who returned?

  Returnees seem to be divided between those who genuinely 'repented', that is they felt real shame at their behavior, and those who returned to regain lost associates or family. My unscientific assessment is that the 'repentant' outnumber those seeking lost family. Equally 'unscientific' is my impression that the number of returnees is quite small.

  An academic who is also a Witness suggested that access to returnees might be facilitated by contacting the Branch Office in your country, or by approaching the issue through the closest congregation first. My personal suggestion is to contact the Watchtower's Office of Public Information in Warwick NY. They have an email box, but a letter addressed to them at 1 Kings Drive, Tuxedo Park NY 10987 will be more effective. My experience is that they are very slow to answer because they must go through layers of approval for any response.

  I hope this helps.

  Anastasia [aka Annie]