It's possible the WT study article was based on a convention talk from 2013. The WT is notorious for not updating talk-based WT study articles, leaving them with outdated information.
matt2414
JoinedPosts by matt2414
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27
Did the organization admit declining growth and stagnation in today's watchtower?
by kneehighmiah indid anyone catch this quote?
"over seven and a half million witnesses of jehovah really have found him and they truly love him.".
why are they no longer touting "nearly 8 million" witnesses?
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106
If you thought Tony Moris the Third was extreme, wait till you hear this other GB member!
by Island Man inhttp://www.youtube.com/watch?v=wqzc2m8_mba&list=uus0vqkpnsxult0gsz6ahpta.
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matt2414
I've never heard anything so stupid in my life! Samuel Herd is a flaming idiot! Brain size has nothing to do with anything -- my new small notebook can do a lot more than my old clunky PC. On the one hand, he says that men's brains are bigger, therefore, women are not qualified to be elders. Then on the other hand, he talks about women who are smarter than men. He tries to have it both ways in his argument ... and to confuse listeners even more, he compares women who want to serve as elders to homosexuals. Huh? Samuel Herd is all the proof we need that God is NOT directing the Governing Body.
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Will reserrected Gays and Lesbians have to give up homosexuality in order to stay in the new system?
by booker-t indo jws believe that if a gay or lesbian is reserrected after the great trib he or she will have to give up homosexuality in order to live..
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matt2414
Actually, the JWs have long taught that in the new world, people would no longer die and the Earth would eventually become filled with perfect humans, just as God purposed in Genesis, so there would no longer be any need for child-bearing. That would mean that all humans would have to be either sterile ... or gay. Too bad the governing body members won't live to see it. (Rev. 21:8 " But for the cowardly, the faithless, the vile ... and all liars—their share will be in the lake that burns with fire and sulfur. This is the second death.”)
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Today's "gay-bashing" and other embarrassing content public talk!
by stuckinarut2 inoh wow..... the public talk today is certainly embarrassing for witnesses!.
started (completely left field too...seemed to come out of nowhere) with condemning homosexuality, and anyone who even tolerates it.
if you like tv shows or movies with gay characters, you are "just as bad" (eg modern family tv show).
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matt2414
25 They exchanged the truth of God for a lie, and worshiped and served created thing rather than the Creator--who is forever praised. Amen. 26 Because of this, God gave them over to shameful lusts. Even their women exchanged natural relations for unnatural ones. 27 In the same way the men also abandoned natural relations with women and were inflamed with lust for one another. Men committed indecent acts with other men, and received in themselves the due penalty for their perversion. (Romans 1)
Apognophos: I appreciate your comments about Romans 1:26, 27, because I used to have a difficult time explaining it ... until I had my own self-realization that I am gay. Now when I read it, there are several red flags that stand out to me.
First of all, what did Paul mean by "exchanging natural relations for unnatural ones"? For gay people, it's natural to have have relations with the same sex, it's something they can't change. Researchers have also found that same-sex bonding occurs naturally in animals. Even many plants are bisexual. But it's not natural for heterosexuals, so that appears to be whom Paul is referring to. Yes, Paul does say they are inflamed with "lust," but notice he doesn't use the word "love." A man may have relations with a prostitute, but that doesn't mean he loves her. I personally know about a dozen self-described God-fearing married, straight people (men and women) who at one time or another have had relations with someone of the same sex. They did so out of lust, not love. Today, they all self-identify as straight.
Why would those in the Roman congregation do this? Paul answers that question in the beginning of verse 26 when he says, "Because of this." Because of what? Verse 25 explains: Because some members of the Roman congregation stopped worshiping God and went back to vernerating man-made idols. Those idol oftentimes required same-sex relations with temple prostitutes, both male and female. (By the way, drugs and other hallucinogens were sometimes used in worshiping idols; spiritism and druggery were closely related. This may have contributed to the "inflamed" "lust.")
Remember, the stabilizing influence of the Jewish founding fathers on the congregation in Rome was gone. Emperor Claudius had expelled them (circa AD 49) along with all the rest of the Jews from Rome because of their constant fighting with the gentiles who lived there (see Acts 18:2). His edict remained in effect until Claudius' death in AD 54, which was sometime before Paul penned his letter to the Romans about AD 55. That means that the only members of the Roman congregation during that time were former worshipers of pagan idols. The expulsion could be one of the reasons Paul was unable to visit the congregation sooner. With the Jewish Christians gone, it's likely some of the gentile Christians (perhaps due to family pressure or lack of faith) returned to worshiping their old gods (remember the Israelites?), many of which required some form of sexual activity as a part of their worship.
Romans 1:26, 27 makes much more sense when read in historical context. If the verse were referring to homosexuals, it would raise the question, "Why were there homosexuals in the congregation in the first place if God disproved of them?" Also, gay people having heterosexual relations would not be natural. After knowing what we do today about plants and animals, would homosexuality and bisexuality also be "unnatural" for them, after Paul glowingly describes creation at Romans 1:20? This entire passage falls apart if we try to view it as fundamentalists (including the Witnesses) view it today, because homosexuality was not viewed in the same way in the first century. It appears, from historical writings, that love and sex were viewed in a more tolerable manner. Infidelity and idolatry (for Christians), however, were strongly condemned. So it's important to consider ancient writings as they were viewed then, and not as misguided churches (including the Jehovah's Witnesses) try to apply them now.
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Today's "gay-bashing" and other embarrassing content public talk!
by stuckinarut2 inoh wow..... the public talk today is certainly embarrassing for witnesses!.
started (completely left field too...seemed to come out of nowhere) with condemning homosexuality, and anyone who even tolerates it.
if you like tv shows or movies with gay characters, you are "just as bad" (eg modern family tv show).
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matt2414
When scientists first observed homosexual actions, and relationships in the animal kingdom, religious leaders kept these findings supressed for many years because it conflicted with their teachings that homosexuality is unnatural.
BU2B: You would think the JW's would apply what's in their own New World Translation: " For his invisible qualities are clearly seen from the world’s creation onward, because they are perceived by the things made, even his eternal power and Godship, so that they are inexcusable." Romans 1:20
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Today's "gay-bashing" and other embarrassing content public talk!
by stuckinarut2 inoh wow..... the public talk today is certainly embarrassing for witnesses!.
started (completely left field too...seemed to come out of nowhere) with condemning homosexuality, and anyone who even tolerates it.
if you like tv shows or movies with gay characters, you are "just as bad" (eg modern family tv show).
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matt2414
RedhorseWoman: I love your comment. It's right on!
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48
Today's "gay-bashing" and other embarrassing content public talk!
by stuckinarut2 inoh wow..... the public talk today is certainly embarrassing for witnesses!.
started (completely left field too...seemed to come out of nowhere) with condemning homosexuality, and anyone who even tolerates it.
if you like tv shows or movies with gay characters, you are "just as bad" (eg modern family tv show).
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matt2414
Witness My Fury: The greek work for the NWT's "men who lie with men" is arsenokoitai. It seems to be a word coined by Paul. Strong's Concordance translates it as: Ar-sane: Male, man and Koy-tay: A couch; by extension, cohabitation; by impl. the male sperm: bed, chambering, X conceive. Many scholars say it refers to male temple prostitution. In Paul's day, men knew sex with a female temple prostitute would be wrong, but perhaps it would not be so bad with a male prostitute. Paul made it clear in at 1 Cor. 6:9-11 that such acts were also wrong. (Notice how Paul did not mention "women lying with women"?)
Why would Paul need to make such a statement? Just two weeks ago the National Center for Health Statistics reported that only 2 percent of the population is gay, 3 percent if you add bisexuals. However, a whopping 12 to 15 percent of straight -- and many married -- men admit to occassional sexual encounters with other men. (That figure is likely much higher when you consider that most straight men refuse to participate in such surveys.) The percentage in the first century was likely much higher because pederasty was still acceptable among some Greeks and so was sex with male temple prostitutes. So the question is: Was Paul refering to homosexuality as it is known in 2014 and only involes a tiny percentage of the population, or was he refering to a larger population of straight men (many married) in his day who widely practiced idolatry by having sex with male temple prostitutes and had sex with young boys? All of this is well documented in history, but churches -- including the Jehovah's Witnesses -- need a target to rally their members, much like the Pharisees did with lepers and women in Jesus' day.
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Today's "gay-bashing" and other embarrassing content public talk!
by stuckinarut2 inoh wow..... the public talk today is certainly embarrassing for witnesses!.
started (completely left field too...seemed to come out of nowhere) with condemning homosexuality, and anyone who even tolerates it.
if you like tv shows or movies with gay characters, you are "just as bad" (eg modern family tv show).
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matt2414
As I've stated before, I'll state again, the Bible says NOTHING about homosexuality. Anyone who says it does brings into question their qualifications for talking about the Bible. I challenge any governing body member to show me any place in the Bible that mentions the word "homosexual." If they refuse my challenge, they in effect are tacitly admitting they are frauds. By the way, they have to use a real Bible based on the original Bible languages and translated by real scholars. Not the New World Translation or others that are paraphrased or are based on personal opinion or have introduced the word "homosexual" into the text where it does not originally exist.
Any GB takers? ... I'm waiting...
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All morals are dead. Pedophilia soon to follow.
by defender of truth in13 jul 2014. trottigy, on 12 jul 2014 - 9:25 pm, said:.
"yes, sadly it is only a matter of time before pedophilia and incest becomes an "alternative lifestyle".
it was true in parts of canaan and rome.
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matt2414
All of this is now a non-issue. Most intelligent people were so outraged by this judge's comparing homosexuality to incest that he has been suspended from all criminal cases, including the one in question. http://www.theguardian.com/world/2014/jul/11/attorney-general-hits-out-at-nsw-judge-over-controversial-incest-remarks.
But what I find even more outrageous are the despicable comments made over on the JW Talks Forum. http://jwtalk.net/forums/topic/16059-wow-all-morals-are-dead-judge-says-incest-is-no-longer-taboo/
What an embarrassment to Watchtower by allowing its members to spew such stupidity and hate. It's a reflection of the organization as a whole and its leaders. They're claiming this case in question is opening the door to pedophilia, so Armageddon needs to come and destroy everyone. What ignorance! The article they supposedly read only quotes the view of one misguided judge; it doesn't say anyone agrees with him. And that's why God needs to destroy everyone? Wow! It's hard to find the love of Christ there. No wonder the org. is hemorrhaging followers.
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The hardship of being a gay Jehovahs witness.
by truthwillsetyoufree inplease spare a moment to consider the difiiculties faced by gay jehovahs witnesses.
i was raised and baptised as a very serious jw.
every waking moment of my day was lived for jehovahs and his organization and for nothing else.
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matt2414
In my congregation, it was considered improper for a brother to be alone with a sister who was not his wife. If the brother were gay, he was not to be alone with another brother either. Basically, he was treated like a leper in Bible times. In Truthwillsetyoufree's case, it sounds like the elders took it upon themselves to yell out "Unclean! Unclean!" to the congregation. I guess they never made it to the part in the Bible where God says, "It is not good for the man to be alone." God only said that after Adam observed all the other animals with companions, both straight and gay. Wait, that's in Genesis chapter 2. They should have read that, shouldn't they?