Posts by non_trias

50

Take Responsibility For Your Thrownness

by non_trias_theos in

jw
friends

we are the decisions we make.

we are thrown into the world and left to make of it what we will.

non trias thinks there is some truth to these observations.. god has allowed us to see the light of life so that we might make of it what we will.

non_trias_theos

:You need to learn the difference between existential freedom or volitional freedom and freedom of speech. One is philosophical and the other is political. So your questions are null and void.:

$$$You never answered my question, nor did you qualify your definition of freedom in your original post.$$$

You are mistaken once again. In my original post it was clear that I was not talking about political freedom. I clearly pointed out that I was discussing existential freedom in relation to thrownness and rationality.

I did not answer your question because it was not framed properly. How do you expect me to answer such an ill-formed question??

$$$When faced with a challenge that you don't want to answer, you then pop up with what you "really" meant by a word you used in a normal unqualified context.$$$

Wrong again.

TR:

quote] Being free does not give you the right to do whatever you like. That is even true with poliitcal freedom.$$$Uh, is that what I said?$$$

You said that being free implies getting the job you want and reading what you want. But you are mistaking liberty for license.

Who is the liar now? I know many Witnesses that read all types of publications NOT produced by the WTS

$$$Religious publications, that are critical of the WTS?$$$

Read your statement again. You wrote:

$$$Then there is freedom to read what you want. Well, not really, because you should limit your reading to good christian reading material that is published by the WTS.$$$

I then called you on this false statement. You then changed the issue.

That reasoning comes straight from the Bible. So it sounds like you have a problem with the holy book of Judaism and Christianity. Not just with jws.[/quote]
$$$Hmmm... show me where is says we should only associate with 'hovah witnesses.$$$
You know the Bible verses that tell us to avoid bad associations and to only hang around with those who call on the Lord out of a clean heart. You have not forgotten those passages, have you?

46

Love, Marriage and Leaving JWs?

by non_trias_theos in

jw
friends

have you ever heard bitter divorcees relate their experiences about their former husbands or wives?

most of the time, if it is a wife telling the story, her former husband could not do anything right.

he was a terrible father, lover, provider, cook, gardener and he smelled funky and was abusive.

non_trias_theos

$$$This post you've made, is a general accusation. There are many people here, with many different stories. When you step on toes with your general accusations, expect to be treated with a negative reaction. But of course, you should know this, since you've boasted your great intellect$$$

My post was not a general accusation. I used the word "sometimes" to qualify my statements.

$$$Let me give you a piece of advice, which is up to you to heed, but before making general accusations ask yourself this; Would I be willing to ask and say these things to someone's face, much less on a message board?$$$

I think you need help, friend. And I mean that sincerely. Witneses are peaceable freedom who just want the freedom to practice their religion the way that the Bible directs. We try to be peaceable with everyone, as far as it depends on us.

I am sure that people say a lot of things on the internet that they would not say to someone's face. Doing so might get one shot these days. There are even some jws who carry guns and tell me they "ain't going out like that" if someone attacks them. A little bit of advice from non.

8

Where is the Great Crowd?

by Dawn in

jw
friends

this post is mainly for non_trias_theos - but any of you who are jw's feel free to respond.

i know this should probably be posted on the bible research board, but being that "non" is a newbie i wasn't sure he'd check there.. question - where is the great crowd?.

read the verses (revelation 7:9) in revelation that refer to the great crowd (or multitude) and tell me where they are in those verses.

non_trias_theos

I agree with follower. Revelation 7:15 states that the great crowd is in the temple (naos). Depending on what that part of the ver means, they could either be in Jehovah's earthly courtyards or in the temple sanctuary. I choose to believe that they are on earth.

50

Take Responsibility For Your Thrownness

by non_trias_theos in

jw
friends

we are the decisions we make.

we are thrown into the world and left to make of it what we will.

non trias thinks there is some truth to these observations.. god has allowed us to see the light of life so that we might make of it what we will.

non_trias_theos

$$$Then there is the freedom to earn a living. Well not really, because there are many types of work forbidden by 'hovah, right? Plus, you want to make sure you choose the kind of work that allows you to attend all meetings.$$$

Have you ever heard the saying, "Liberty does not mean license"? If not, you need to acquaint yourself with this lovely axiom. Being free does not give you the right to do whatever you like. That is even true with poliitcal freedom.

$$$Then there is freedom to read what you want. Well, not really, because you should limit your reading to good christian reading material that is published by the WTS.$$$

Who is the liar now? I know many Witnesses that read all types of publications NOT produced by the WTS.

$$$Then there is the freedom to associate with people that you choose as friends. Well, not really, because association needs to be limited to 'hovahs 'in good standing'.$$$

That reasoning comes straight from the Bible. So it sounds like you have a problem with the holy book of Judaism and Christianity. Not just with jws.

50

Take Responsibility For Your Thrownness

by non_trias_theos in

jw
friends

we are the decisions we make.

we are thrown into the world and left to make of it what we will.

non trias thinks there is some truth to these observations.. god has allowed us to see the light of life so that we might make of it what we will.

non_trias_theos

Syn:

$$$Sigh...so who SHOULD we blame? It was NOT a personal decision. The greatest motivator for becoming a Dub is simple, animilistic FEAR transmitted through the frontal lobe which groks religion to the inner bits of the brain, which only grok pain. Somewhere in the translation, faith is born! Don't tell me you don't fear "Judgement Day". What would your religion be without it? Answer: It wouldn't exist as a religion.$$$

It should have been a personal decision. You have all of the equipment, supposedly, to make rational decisions in life. If the decision was not a rational, wise, informed one--then blame yourself. And fear is not the only thing that motivates one to become a Witness. That is the fallacy of reductionism (nothing-nut-ness).

Fark:

$$$Is your argument that more dubs than not are free to speak what they think and make any non-religious legal decisions as they see fit with umpunity? Yes or no.$$$

You need to learn the difference between existential freedom or volitional freedom and freedom of speech. One is philosophical and the other is political. So your questions are null and void.

Puffy:

$$$Well, I do recall being told that women are to be submissive to their husband (just as Christ is to...someone or something, I cannot recall). I was taught this as a good JW young woman would be.$$$

You only apprehended part of the story. You need to focus on the overall pattern of truth. Remember Sarah and Abigail. Remember how God blessed these strong women? A husband is not supposed to be a dictator.

$$$I did so enjoy putting a napkin on my head when there was a male in the room; even if it was a baby. I also enjoyed not having any responsibility in the congregation...this really set me up as a house cleaner...$$$

You raise a lot of issues. But I do not want you to overlook the main point. You retain your freedom and autonomy since you have the capability to type on this board. Use it wisely. The Bible does not condemn such actions.

$$$Regarding Proverbs 31...when I left the dubs, I burned my bible!! Now that was liberating. Suddenly I saw the light! I do not need a man--to tell me what to do!! [8>]$$$

The Bible does not say that a man has to tell you what to do. You should have kept it and read it!

46

Love, Marriage and Leaving JWs?

by non_trias_theos in

jw
friends

have you ever heard bitter divorcees relate their experiences about their former husbands or wives?

most of the time, if it is a wife telling the story, her former husband could not do anything right.

he was a terrible father, lover, provider, cook, gardener and he smelled funky and was abusive.

non_trias_theos

Thanks for your balanced reply, Dawn.

46

Love, Marriage and Leaving JWs?

by non_trias_theos in

jw
friends

have you ever heard bitter divorcees relate their experiences about their former husbands or wives?

most of the time, if it is a wife telling the story, her former husband could not do anything right.

he was a terrible father, lover, provider, cook, gardener and he smelled funky and was abusive.

non_trias_theos

$$$Just wondering if you were an active JW there NON???? The way you talk sounds like you are kind of defending them.$$$

Non is a jw. He defends the Bible and jws.

$$$And what happened with most of us is that we did start to see the "truth" after a while of being brain washed. Just like with marriage and dating, no one shows their true self up front.$$$

I disagree. There are some individuals who try to reveal their actual attributes when they date others for the purpose of marriage. Psychologically speaking, we are talking about personal disclosure (the act of A revealing himself to B). But the act of disclosure does not thereby exhaust the mystery of human existence. No one knows himself fully except God. So often it is not a matter of hiding undesirable traits. A person is a mystery to himself.

$$$The front is put on to impress and grab and then once they are secure that they have that person then the true colors come out and the love slowly dies. Look at it.$$$

As I look back in time through the recesses of my mind, I find that what the jws first told me is still the case today. But I investigated the religion long and hard before I accepted it. I saw the good, the bad and the ugly.

$$$If someone is studying with the Witnesses then everyone in the congregation will do everything that is needed to help that person studying, but after about a year of being baptized, if you are not a pioneer then they start looking at you to fault for some reason or another. Then the problems just start happening.$$$

I think you are exaggerating to a certain degree. Some congregations are warmer than others. And human dynamics being what they are and since we existents are metastable, things ever change. It is called human dynamics.

$$$Tell me your story. Why would you post something like that if you know how it is, and if you are still an active JW then what are you doing on this site anyway. You could be disfellowshiped for any dealings that you may have with apostates!!!!!! Think about it!!!!!!!!$$$

I use Scripture as my guide. Whatever consequences flow from my decisions based on the Bible will be handled by me with fortitude and courage.

50

Take Responsibility For Your Thrownness

by non_trias_theos in

jw
friends

we are the decisions we make.

we are thrown into the world and left to make of it what we will.

non trias thinks there is some truth to these observations.. god has allowed us to see the light of life so that we might make of it what we will.

non_trias_theos

$$$I thought I would respond to foolishNESS.$$$

Why are you not replying to your own threads then?

: Even the decision to use one's thrownness to become a jw is an act of freedom.

$$$And if it you become a dub, you surrender your freedom to think, speak and act to a bunch of clowns.$$$

You may have surrendered your freedom when you became a Witness. I did not. Speak for yourself and avoid the argumentum secundum quid.

: Freedom brings with it responsibility.

$$$That's why dubs don't have it: they cede their freedoms and their responsiblities of choice to a bunch of clowns.$$$

Again you are talking about your personal experience. You cannot justly generalize from your own abdication of rational freedom to my refusal to abdicate my God-given autonomy.

$$$After you become a dub, freedom is only a meaningless term.$$$

For you maybe. And those who place humans above the Bible. But the Scripture says that where God's spirit is, there is freedom. The truth will set you free (Jesus Christ). Get with it, dude.

: Fredom also includes the potential for enjoying blessings or suffering maledictions.

$$$That depends upon whether you surrender your freedoms to a bunch of clowns, or not.$$$

Don't blame jws for your personal decisioon to surrender your freedom. Do not blame God either.

50

Take Responsibility For Your Thrownness

by non_trias_theos in

jw
friends

we are the decisions we make.

we are thrown into the world and left to make of it what we will.

non trias thinks there is some truth to these observations.. god has allowed us to see the light of life so that we might make of it what we will.

non_trias_theos

$$$But I am a woman and have no ability to think freely....or perhaps you are one of the people who has seen the NEW LIGHT?$$$

I have actually seen the old light. Know what I mean?

There is a difference between potency and act; potentiality and actuality. You are free in potentia. That does not mean that you are necessarily free per actus. While the former always lies in your power, the latter only comes about when you employ your rational capacity and exercise your relative autonomy in a balnced way.

$$$I am submissive and ask my husband for direction on all topics. He especially enjoys going shopping with me and picking out bras and panties.I do not feel that I have the freedom to make this decision on my own. I trust his judgement. As I should, since he is a man.$$$

Why do you ask your huband for direction on all topics? Have you not read Proverbs 31? Proverbs 31 shows that you as a woman have been granted precious freedom by God to take responbility for your own existential thrownness and you have the authority to pick out your own undergarments.

46

Love, Marriage and Leaving JWs?

by non_trias_theos in

jw
friends

have you ever heard bitter divorcees relate their experiences about their former husbands or wives?

most of the time, if it is a wife telling the story, her former husband could not do anything right.

he was a terrible father, lover, provider, cook, gardener and he smelled funky and was abusive.

non_trias_theos

Have you ever heard bitter divorcees relate their experiences about their former husbands or wives? Most of the time, if it is a wife telling the story, her former husband could not do anything right. He was a terrible father, lover, provider, cook, gardener and he smelled funky and was abusive. In other words, he was a total loser.

One wonders how the woman ever became attracted to such a loser or did he just change over time?

While the awful depictions of husbands are sometimes true, I think the negative depictions are oftentimes exaggerated. Could everything have really been bad all the time? Maybe. Then again, maybe not.

Peeps on this board sometimes remind me of bitter divorcees. Once they were supposedly happy Jws who had that first love and joyfully engaged in meeting attendance and the preaching work. Then something happened. What took place? What was responsible for the change in attitude? How did the organization go from THE org to THE borg? You tell non. Are you folks being a little hypercritical in this place?

I turn the platform over to you.

non_trias_theos

Posts by non_trias_theos