have you ever heard bitter divorcees relate their experiences about their former husbands or wives?
most of the time, if it is a wife telling the story, her former husband could not do anything right.
he was a terrible father, lover, provider, cook, gardener and he smelled funky and was abusive.
ballistic
I said that I know some witnesses who carry guns for protection. They think it is a conscience matter since the law in some countries permits one to have a gun. I do not like guns; non does not own a gun. slo there is nothing for me to argue. Take it up with those who think that it is ok to carry guns. I am not a mster over their faith..
I just mentioned it to show why people need not think that can attack jws and expect to come out unscathed.
have you ever heard bitter divorcees relate their experiences about their former husbands or wives?
most of the time, if it is a wife telling the story, her former husband could not do anything right.
he was a terrible father, lover, provider, cook, gardener and he smelled funky and was abusive.
$$$I must say I actually thought you were trying to count time up to that point. Now you're trying to get your arse kicked.$$$
One's behind only gets kicked if one lets his behind get kicked. Non ain't going out like that.
have you ever heard bitter divorcees relate their experiences about their former husbands or wives?
most of the time, if it is a wife telling the story, her former husband could not do anything right.
he was a terrible father, lover, provider, cook, gardener and he smelled funky and was abusive.
$$$MOSTLY PEACEFUL MY ASS. I HAVE NEVER KNOWN OF A PEACEFUL WITNESS. CHAOS AND DRAMA, YES. BUT PEACEFUL, NO!!!!$$$
What congregation were you in, sweetie? You shoulda been in mine. Most members afre peaceable there and very few of us tote guns.
have you ever heard bitter divorcees relate their experiences about their former husbands or wives?
most of the time, if it is a wife telling the story, her former husband could not do anything right.
he was a terrible father, lover, provider, cook, gardener and he smelled funky and was abusive.
$$$I have heard the "up-set husband/wife" comparison to apostates before. My wife tried it and I told her that if indeed the upset spouse were running her mouth with no proof then yes I would take it with a grain of salt. However...if she came to me with letters written in the offending spouse's own handwriting recounting/describing the same things she complaining about..well that lends some credibility. The watchtower sure has written a lot.$$$
You have not heard me deny that the wt does have certain failings. I just think people blow things out of proportion and love to shift the blame.
$$$Trying to antagonise with a threat like this proves Simons theory that you do not feel you've won your game unless you mange to provoke people.$$$
I am not trying to provoke anyone. Non has no guns in the house. But some people do carry them. That is my point. Do not think that just because a people like jws, who are mostly peaceful, muight not have some members who carry protection.
we are the decisions we make.
we are thrown into the world and left to make of it what we will.
non trias thinks there is some truth to these observations.. god has allowed us to see the light of life so that we might make of it what we will.
:You need to learn the difference between existential freedom or volitional freedom and freedom of speech. One is philosophical and the other is political. So your questions are null and void.:
$$$You never answered my question, nor did you qualify your definition of freedom in your original post.$$$
You are mistaken once again. In my original post it was clear that I was not talking about political freedom. I clearly pointed out that I was discussing existential freedom in relation to thrownness and rationality.
I did not answer your question because it was not framed properly. How do you expect me to answer such an ill-formed question??
$$$When faced with a challenge that you don't want to answer, you then pop up with what you "really" meant by a word you used in a normal unqualified context.$$$
Wrong again.
TR:
quote] Being free does not give you the right to do whatever you like. That is even true with poliitcal freedom.$$$Uh, is that what I said?$$$
You said that being free implies getting the job you want and reading what you want. But you are mistaking liberty for license.
Who is the liar now? I know many Witnesses that read all types of publications NOT produced by the WTS$$$Religious publications, that are critical of the WTS?$$$
Read your statement again. You wrote:
$$$Then there is freedom to read what you want. Well, not really, because you should limit your reading to good christian reading material that is published by the WTS.$$$
I then called you on this false statement. You then changed the issue.
That reasoning comes straight from the Bible. So it sounds like you have a problem with the holy book of Judaism and Christianity. Not just with jws.[/quote]$$$Hmmm... show me where is says we should only associate with 'hovah witnesses.$$$
You know the Bible verses that tell us to avoid bad associations and to only hang around with those who call on the Lord out of a clean heart. You have not forgotten those passages, have you?
have you ever heard bitter divorcees relate their experiences about their former husbands or wives?
most of the time, if it is a wife telling the story, her former husband could not do anything right.
he was a terrible father, lover, provider, cook, gardener and he smelled funky and was abusive.
$$$This post you've made, is a general accusation. There are many people here, with many different stories. When you step on toes with your general accusations, expect to be treated with a negative reaction. But of course, you should know this, since you've boasted your great intellect$$$
My post was not a general accusation. I used the word "sometimes" to qualify my statements.
$$$Let me give you a piece of advice, which is up to you to heed, but before making general accusations ask yourself this; Would I be willing to ask and say these things to someone's face, much less on a message board?$$$
I think you need help, friend. And I mean that sincerely. Witneses are peaceable freedom who just want the freedom to practice their religion the way that the Bible directs. We try to be peaceable with everyone, as far as it depends on us.
I am sure that people say a lot of things on the internet that they would not say to someone's face. Doing so might get one shot these days. There are even some jws who carry guns and tell me they "ain't going out like that" if someone attacks them. A little bit of advice from non.
this post is mainly for non_trias_theos - but any of you who are jw's feel free to respond.
i know this should probably be posted on the bible research board, but being that "non" is a newbie i wasn't sure he'd check there.. question - where is the great crowd?.
read the verses (revelation 7:9) in revelation that refer to the great crowd (or multitude) and tell me where they are in those verses.
I agree with follower. Revelation 7:15 states that the great crowd is in the temple (naos). Depending on what that part of the ver means, they could either be in Jehovah's earthly courtyards or in the temple sanctuary. I choose to believe that they are on earth.
we are the decisions we make.
we are thrown into the world and left to make of it what we will.
non trias thinks there is some truth to these observations.. god has allowed us to see the light of life so that we might make of it what we will.
$$$Then there is the freedom to earn a living. Well not really, because there are many types of work forbidden by 'hovah, right? Plus, you want to make sure you choose the kind of work that allows you to attend all meetings.$$$
Have you ever heard the saying, "Liberty does not mean license"? If not, you need to acquaint yourself with this lovely axiom. Being free does not give you the right to do whatever you like. That is even true with poliitcal freedom.
$$$Then there is freedom to read what you want. Well, not really, because you should limit your reading to good christian reading material that is published by the WTS.$$$
Who is the liar now? I know many Witnesses that read all types of publications NOT produced by the WTS.
$$$Then there is the freedom to associate with people that you choose as friends. Well, not really, because association needs to be limited to 'hovahs 'in good standing'.$$$
That reasoning comes straight from the Bible. So it sounds like you have a problem with the holy book of Judaism and Christianity. Not just with jws.
we are the decisions we make.
we are thrown into the world and left to make of it what we will.
non trias thinks there is some truth to these observations.. god has allowed us to see the light of life so that we might make of it what we will.
Syn:
$$$Sigh...so who SHOULD we blame? It was NOT a personal decision. The greatest motivator for becoming a Dub is simple, animilistic FEAR transmitted through the frontal lobe which groks religion to the inner bits of the brain, which only grok pain. Somewhere in the translation, faith is born! Don't tell me you don't fear "Judgement Day". What would your religion be without it? Answer: It wouldn't exist as a religion.$$$
It should have been a personal decision. You have all of the equipment, supposedly, to make rational decisions in life. If the decision was not a rational, wise, informed one--then blame yourself. And fear is not the only thing that motivates one to become a Witness. That is the fallacy of reductionism (nothing-nut-ness).
Fark:
$$$Is your argument that more dubs than not are free to speak what they think and make any non-religious legal decisions as they see fit with umpunity? Yes or no.$$$
You need to learn the difference between existential freedom or volitional freedom and freedom of speech. One is philosophical and the other is political. So your questions are null and void.
Puffy:
$$$Well, I do recall being told that women are to be submissive to their husband (just as Christ is to...someone or something, I cannot recall). I was taught this as a good JW young woman would be.$$$
You only apprehended part of the story. You need to focus on the overall pattern of truth. Remember Sarah and Abigail. Remember how God blessed these strong women? A husband is not supposed to be a dictator.
$$$I did so enjoy putting a napkin on my head when there was a male in the room; even if it was a baby. I also enjoyed not having any responsibility in the congregation...this really set me up as a house cleaner...$$$
You raise a lot of issues. But I do not want you to overlook the main point. You retain your freedom and autonomy since you have the capability to type on this board. Use it wisely. The Bible does not condemn such actions.
$$$Regarding Proverbs 31...when I left the dubs, I burned my bible!! Now that was liberating. Suddenly I saw the light! I do not need a man--to tell me what to do!! [8>]$$$
The Bible does not say that a man has to tell you what to do. You should have kept it and read it!
have you ever heard bitter divorcees relate their experiences about their former husbands or wives?
most of the time, if it is a wife telling the story, her former husband could not do anything right.
he was a terrible father, lover, provider, cook, gardener and he smelled funky and was abusive.
Thanks for your balanced reply, Dawn.
