Posts by Norm

4

Flickering light

by Norm in

jw
friends

have you ever considered this excellent example of how the light flashes and flickers in brooklyn?

then let us look at the story about the 2,300 evenings and mornings did you know that jehovah makes his official announcements in the watchtower magazine?

you didnt?

Have you ever considered this excellent example of how the «light flashes» and flickers in Brooklyn? No? Then let us look at the story about the «2,300 evening’s and morning’s» Did you know that «Jehovah» makes his official announcements in the Watchtower magazine? You didn’t? Well take a look at this:

“This Resolution was adopted by congregations of Jehovah’s witnesses throughout the earth. The announcement in the Watchtower magazine of October 15, 1932, at the end of 2,300 evenings and mornings was the official notification made by Jehovah through his visible channel of communication that his sanctuary of anointed “living stones” had been cleansed, vindicated and justified.” Watchtower, October 1. 1959, page 601-2.

It is indeed nice to know that «Jehovah» has shown such great interest in us that he’s even printing his own magazine in which he publish his «official notifications» for our benefit. Look how thorough «Jehovah» explains it all in his magazine:

«In 1918 the "little horn" of Daniel 8:9, the Anglo-American dual world power, had cast down the place of this spiritual sanctuary, and in 1926 it together with other nations committed the "transgression that makes desolate" in connection with the League of Nations. This marked the beginning of the count of the 2,300 "evenings and mornings" mentioned in Daniel 8:14, at the end of which period of time Jehovah's sanctuary was to be restored to its rightful state. This period of six years four months and twenty days ended on October 15, 1932, when "The Watchtower," the official journal of the sanctuary class, published the evidence that the sanctuary class on earth had been cleansed and the sanctuary restored to its rightful state by the abolition from the congregations of Jehovah's witnesses of the democratically elected "elders" and by the theocratic appointment of service directors to the congregations for preaching the Kingdom good news.»
Watchtower, October 1. 1959, page 632.
«If the Bible rule for counting prophetic time is applied as already set out, a prophetic year of 360 days being taken as the basic unit, 2,300 evenings and mornings would amount to six years four months and twenty days, each day being composed of an evening and a morning. (Gen. 1:5, 8, 13, 19, 23, 31) Count now from the beginning of this International Convention of London on May 25, 1926, and we shall find that the 2,300 days of evenings and mornings bring us to October 15, 1932.»
Watchtower, October 1. 1959, page 600.

But alas, as usual with the «official notifications» and «promises» «Jehovah» makes in the Watchtower or Awake! Magazines, sooner or later they have to be revoked. «Jehovah» is indeed very shoddy, and can’t seem to make up his mind about even the simplest matters. Anyway, he apparently got his wires crossed over when the 2,300 evenings and mornings started. As you have noticed above he clearly stated in his «official notification» that they started in May 25, 1926 and ended in October 15, 1932. Did they? Apparently not!

“What Its "Right Condition" Means for Us Today
When did those 2,300 evenings and mornings begin? By knowing this we can find out when they end and thus when Jehovah’s “holy place” is “brought into its right condition,” or, “shall be restored to its rightful state” (Revised Standard Version). If Jehovah’s “holy place” is “brought” or “restored” to what it should be, then we should count the days from the time when previously it was in the “right condition” from Jehovah’s viewpoint. At the earliest this was on June 1, 1938, when the official magazine of Jehovah’s anointed remnant of underpriests at His sanctuary, namely, The Watchtower, published Part One of the article entitled “Organization,” so as to state more fully the theocratic requirements for it.”
Watchtower, December 1. 1971, page 724.
“If we thus count from the critical period when theocratic organization was being more fully installed in the congregations of Jehovah's witnesses, when did the 2,300 days end?” Watchtower, December 1. 1971, page 724.
«What, then, does all that combination of significant events at the critical time indicate? Apparently this: that Jehovah's "sanctuary" or "holy place" was "brought into its right condition" on time, at the end of the 2,300 evenings and mornings, in early autumn (October 8-22) of the year 1944.»
Watchtower, December 1. 1971, page 727.

As you clearly see from the above quotes the «2,300 evenings and mornings» now suddenly started on June 1, 1938 - six years after the time «Jehovah» clearly stated in his «official notification». Now they ended in October 8-22, 1944, not in October 15, 1932! Another embarrassing fact is that this change wasn’t noticed by anyone, until the end of 1971. When «Jehovah» issued his «official notification» in 1932, he didn’t notice the blunder until his «official» magazine» was issued in December 1971, some 39 years later! His own declared «truth» who had been dished out as «food in due time» for 39 years appeared to have been wrong all the time. Hey, just a thought, maybe it isn’t Jehovah who has issued these two conflicting statements? Who then dares to change or revise «Jehovah’s official notification»?

There are many more amazing and hilarious examples of the flickering «light» from «Jehovah’s Official channel» in Brooklyn. It is really beyond me how anyone can regard this organization as “Jehovah’s” when it is so painfully obvious that they don’t have half a clue about the 2300 evenings and mornings, and not about anything else for that matter.

Norm.

10

The wonderful future Christian America.

by Norm in

jw
friends

those of us who have frequented h2o and have otherwise encountered our fundie friends from the usa have many times been reminded of their strange arguments and ideas.

all of them seem to long back to biblical times and particularly the times of the old testament.

they have got the idea that those days were so wonderful when everybody was adhering to biblical morals, values and such.

Norm

Hi

You were mentioning something you called:

CREATOR's principals

Care to tell me what those principles are?

Norm.

10

The wonderful future Christian America.

by Norm in

jw
friends

those of us who have frequented h2o and have otherwise encountered our fundie friends from the usa have many times been reminded of their strange arguments and ideas.

all of them seem to long back to biblical times and particularly the times of the old testament.

they have got the idea that those days were so wonderful when everybody was adhering to biblical morals, values and such.

Norm

Those of us who have frequented H2O and have otherwise encountered our fundie friends from the USA have many times been reminded of their strange arguments and ideas. All of them seem to long back to Biblical times and particularly the times of the Old Testament. They have got the idea that those days were so wonderful when everybody was adhering to Biblical morals, values and such. They speak warmly about a theocracy:

Recently I have read a very good book on the subject written by Steve Allen. In the foreword he is discussing what would happen if the American society were going back to Biblical values, and becomes a theocracy. He observes:

Since the new ultra-extreme fundamentalists are so displeased by democracy, what, specifically, do they recommend as its replacement? On this question, too, they are quite frank. A theocracy. Shades of Puritan England, Inquisition Spain, or Iran, 1979-1989!
Theocracy means: rule not by the people, not by elected representatives, but by God (and whoever has the power to enforce claims that he speaks for God). Those of us who assume that God exists would presumably object to such a system only in the absence of God from the earth in a physical form. God can take over the administration of the affairs of all the nations of earth anytime he wants to, so far as I am concerned, but this has never happened. In the governments throughout history that have considered themselves theocracies, we have witnessed rule by clergymen who simply asserted (and in many cases may have honestly believed) that they were God's specially chosen representatives. Steve Allen on the Bible, Religion & Morality, 1990. page 32.

Then Allen goes on to describe some of the consequences to the US society if those who want this theocracy should succeed in their undertaking. First of all the homosexual community would have no reason to rejoice:

Let us now consider specs. As regards the question of homosexuality, it is clear that most Americans regard the sexual preference for a member of one's own gender as a problem. Some people have fascistic and heartless attitudes on the issue; others strive to be fair.
The Christian Reconstructionists are perfectly clear about a solution to the problem. That solution is nothing more complex than the prompt imposition of the death penalty.
To those unfamiliar with the recent drift of the public dialogue on this and related questions, what I have just said will sound like a libelous distortion. Would that it were. The Reconstructionist movement, which is chiefly Protestant although it has interested a few Catholics, absolutely insists that homosexuals ought to be killed. I do not mean that individual Reconstructionists consider themselves at liberty to arm themselves to the teeth and travel about their communities in vigilante bands, shooting or stabbing homosexuals on sight. That would, obviously enough, be a horrifying spectacle to witness. I refer to something worse.
The Reconstructionists insist that the slaughter of millions of their fellow citizens is to be conducted in strict accordance with the law. They argue, in other words, that homosexuality must simply be added to the list of capital crimes punishable by execution.
Steve Allen on the Bible, Religion & Morality, 1990. page 32, 33.

Of course the homosexuals wouldn’t the only “undesirable” elements that would be unwanted in a Society of true believers, so there would be a number of other people that would have to be killed:

What other crimes would the new fascist movement like to see added to the list of capital offenses? Habitual juvenile delinquency, for one. Please do not take my word for this; consult the public statements and writings of leaders of the new movement. It should take only a few days of investigation to establish that yes, the group at present is working very hard to do nothing less than take over the administration of the local, state, and national affairs of the United States. It insists that swiftly imposed death is the proper punishment for the kind of lamentable and sometimes criminal behavior engaged in by millions of young men and women in our presently troubled society.
If, as is commonly believed, about 10 percent of Americans have homosexual leanings, it inescapably follows that if the Reconstructionists ever do take over control of our country, some 25 million Americans will shortly be executed. Statistics about juvenile delinquency may be variously interpreted, but let us say that in that category perhaps another 20 million young men and women would be killed, and this, bear constantly in mind, by those who consider themselves Christians. It is obviously impossible to get precise statistics concerning that percentage of the approximately 250 million American population who have committed the moral and sometimes legal offense of adultery. Most of us would be pleased if no one ever was unfaithful to a marriage partner, and the American home would clearly be a more secure institution if this were the case. But, as the scriptures constantly remind us, humans have apparently as much a gift for wrongdoing as for virtuous conduct. So let us arbitrarily say that 75 million Americans have offended the moral law in this way. Add that to the other arithmetic.
Hitler's Nazis became the objects of most of the world's contempt by killing six million Jews, equally as many, if not more, Balts and Slavs, and being responsible for waging war in which millions more civilians and soldiers died. The Reconstructionists do not seek to obscure the fact that they propose the slaughter of their fellow citizens in numbers that Hitler, Stalin, and Pol Pot may never have dreamed of.
Steve Allen on the Bible, Religion & Morality, 1990. page 33, 34.

As we can see this wonderful new American theocracy would be founded on the execution of about 120 million Americans. It is of course still not as radical as the Watchtower Society "solution" that will kill 6 billion people, but at least the Watchtower Society leave the actual killing to their homicidal God. Their fundy brothers would like to do much of the killing by their theocratic state penal system.
Either way they both are according to themselves preaching “Good News”. How wonderful and attractive it must be to be this kind of Christian. Wouldn’t you all love to live in such a system?

Norm.

16

Always Late?

by Norm in

jw
friends

always late .

one of the watchtower society favorite themes is how incredibly late it is.

it is in fact always later than you think.

Norm

Hi there Java,

You said

It looks like the Norwegians have invaded this discussion board. We better hide the liquor keys before Norman and Kent get to the bar.
Any group believing Jesus would return in 1914, and a few years later told Jesus did return, but we just couldn't see it, would buy the Brooklyn Bridge or anything else coming from that end of town. Good post, Norman!

Well, frankly I didn’t know about this board or I would have been here a long time ago. As for the bar it is only wine and beer for me these days. :-)

I think there would be a chance that we could sell the Eiffel Tower to them too, or maybe some land on Mars, or a plot in the Pleiades.

Norman

16

Always Late?

by Norm in

jw
friends

always late .

one of the watchtower society favorite themes is how incredibly late it is.

it is in fact always later than you think.

Norm

Hi Ozziepost,

You said:

Seems to me that The TWs, along with other endtimers abuse the position described by the apostles in quoting Jesus.
For example, John, on the Isle of Patmos and needeing encouragement, receives the Revelation. The Lord said to him, amongst other things,: "Behold, I am coming soon!" (Rev 22:7) What was meant by the expression "soon"? Notice that Jesus uses the same expression to the congregation in Pergamum:"I will soon come to you" (2:16), and to the congregation at Philadelphia: "I am coming soon" (3:11).
The W/T Society have transferred the application of these sayings to the time since 1914, but the question should be, Why? These expressions were spoken to those actually receiving Christ's words in the first century. So when Jesus said to John that he was coming soon, we may say He is still coming soon. And when he does, every eye will see him. Could it be then that the date of 1914 is immaterial to the coming "soon"?
Ozzie

Of course we may say he is coming “soon” Ozzie. We also may say the ver same thing 4000 years from now. My point is that if we do that the very word soon has lost it’s meaning completely and can’t be taken serious at all.

Norm.

4

The Watchtower Society, a "True" Pr...

by Norm in

jw
friends

there has been a lot of discussion about the status of the watchtower society as a prophet.

is it a prophet and if it is, is it a true prophet?

let us look at the watchtower society own definition of a true prophet as found in the insight book: .

Norm

There has been a lot of discussion about the status of the Watchtower Society as a prophet.
Is it a prophet and if it is, is it a “true” prophet? Let us look at the Watchtower Society own definition of a true prophet as found in the Insight book:

"The three essentials for establishing the credentials of a true prophet, as given through Moses, were: The true prophet would speak in Jehovah's name; the things foretold would come to pass (De 18:20-22); and his prophesying must promote true worship" The book, Insight On The Scriptures Vol. 2 p. 696, 1988.

It is hardly a coincidence that this book made such a definition. Why? Because we all know which organization they claim to qualify to meet the standards of their definition. So let us take a look at the first point, “The true prophet would speak in Jehovah's name”. Have the Watchtower Society ever claimed to utter a prophecy in Jehovah’s name? According to themselves they have never claimed to do that:

“Jehovah’s Witnesses, in their eagerness for Jesus’ second coming, have suggested dates that turned out to be incorrect. Because of this, some have called them false prophets. Never in these instances, however, did they presume to originate predictions ‘in the name of Jehovah.’ Never did they say, ‘These are the words of Jehovah.” Awake! March 22. 1993, page 4.
They do not claim that their predictions are direct revelations from Jehovah and that in this sense they are prophesying in Jehovah’s name.
Awake! March 22. 1993, page 3-4.

Well, that’s extremely interesting. Here we have the official confirmation of what we have known all the time. The Watchtower Society isn’t a true prophet, because according to themselves, they have NEVER spoken in Jehovah’s name. How’s that, you may ask? Well, look at the definition in the insight book again, “The true prophet would speak in Jehovah's name”. Got it now? It is good to have that one settled once and for all.

But with that point settled, we must ask ourselves, is it really true that the Watchtower Society have never claimed that their predictions did originate from Jehovah? The only way to find out is to take a look at what the Watchtower Society has said about this matter. What do we find? Take a look and see for yourself:

“So God’s servants know what this world’s rulers do not. They know Jehovah’s purposes and his seasons… Since Jehovah’s servants of today obey him as ruler, God’s holy spirit also reveals to them what season it is from his viewpoint. Amos 3:7 says: “The Sovereign Lord Jehovah will not do a thing unless he has revealed his confidential matter to his servants the prophets.”
The Watchtower April 15. 1986, page 18.
"The resolutions adopted by conventions of God's anointed people, booklets, magazines, and books published by them, contain the message of God's truth and are from the Almighty God, Jehovah, and provided by him through Christ Jesus and his underofficers ... It is his truth and not man's ..."
The Watchtower May 1, 1938 p. 143.

When comparing these quotes, it is easy to see that they do not “add up”. Here we have a clear claim that they KNOW ”Jehovah’s seasons”. Why? Because Jehovah’s ”holy spirit also reveals” it to them! If Jehovah’s spirit reveals something you, how much more ”direct” can it be? How can anyone not draw the conclusion that when information is revealed to you by “Jehovah’s spirit, this must naturally come from Jehovah himself? As you can see in the more sweeping statement from the Rutherford era, they claim that all of their literature comes from God. Of course the Watchtower Society consider themselves a “true” prophet of Jehovah, this is how it looks when they want to hammer that very message home to the rank and file Jehovah's Witnesses:

"Who will be Jehovah's prophet to the nations, to speak to them everything that He should command? Who will be the modern Jeremiah? ... Back there, about forty years ago, that was the question. Today we may ask, how was the question answered? There are facts to show. We should not appeal to religious pride or boasting or self-made claims. We should appeal to the facts. Let facts speak for themselves. ... Whom has God actually used as his prophet? ... Jehovah's witnesses are deeply grateful today that the plain facts show that God has been pleased to use them." The Watchtower Jan. 15, 1959 pp. 40, 41.

Again we have to turn for a moment back to the Insight book quote: “The true prophet would speak in Jehovah's name; the things foretold would come to pass”. As we can see from the Watchtower quote from 1959, “facts speak for themselves”, and as pointed out by the Awake article from 1993, the predictions made by the Watchtower Society never came true, and the reason for this was that they didn’t come from Jehovah! So again the facts show that the Watchtower Society isn’t Jehovah’s true Prophet! The conclusion from above proved correct again. But let us take a look at some more claims made by the Watchtower Society:

"Spirit of Life from God Entered into Them
The announced purpose behind God’s pouring out of his spirit upon all sorts of flesh was that the recipients thereof might prophesy. The facts substantiate that the remnant of Christ’s anointed disciples have been doing that prophesying to all the nations for a witness in favor of God’s kingdom. Logically, then, they must be the ones upon whom God’s spirit has actually been poured out. That spirit is behind their worldwide preaching. Why argue about it?” Holy Spirit, 1976, page 148.
“No obstacle put in His way by the enemies will prove to be insurmountable for Jehovah. Just as at Mount Sinai He put his word in the mouth of his chosen people through the mediator Moses and thereafter he led them under the protective shadow of his hand into the Promised Land, so he has done for the remnant of spiritual Israel. He has put his word, his message of the hour, into the mouth of the spiritual remnant for them to confess openly before all the world, for their own salvation and for that of responsive hearers.” Holy Spirit, 1976, page 175.

In one moment they have never tried “to originate predictions ‘in the name of Jehovah.” In the next they tell us that Jehovah has “Put his word into” their “mouth”! Which is it? If Jehovah put his words into your mouth, doesn’t that make the words that you then utter in effect Jehovah’s words?

But it gets better. Take a look at this next quote:

"Jehovah, the God of the true prophets, will put all false prophets to shame either by not fulfilling the false prediction of such self-assuming prophets or by having His own prophecies fulfilled in a way opposite to that predicted by the false prophets. False prophets will try to hide their reason for feeling shame by denying who they really are."
The book, Paradise Restored To Mankind By Theocracy, pp. 353, 354, 1972.

And then compare it to this quote:

“They do not claim that their predictions are direct revelations from Jehovah and that in this sense they are prophesying in Jehovah’s name. Awake! March 22. 1993, page 3-4.

As documented so far in this short message, it is demonstrated how the Watchtower Society have claimed time and again to speak for Jehovah, how he have told them all about “Jehovah’s purposes and his seasons”, because his “holy spirit has revealed” it to them. And when all of these predictions fail, they turn around and tell us that, “oh no, we didn’t proclaim those predictions in Jehovah’s name, we just said all these things because we so strongly wanted our own fantasies to be true, we’re not false prophets, hey we’re not even prophets!”

Do you remember this line from the above quoted Watchtower book: ”False prophets will try to hide their reason for feeling shame by denying that they really are."

Could any of you think of a better description of the behaviour of the Watchtower Society? I certainly cannot!

Norm.

16

Always Late?

by Norm in

jw
friends

always late .

one of the watchtower society favorite themes is how incredibly late it is.

it is in fact always later than you think.

Norm

we're surprised that in your towering intellectual, insightful & literary stature you've failed to understand some very basic fundamentals:

Now where in my post did you find that I do not understand this?

Norm.

16

Always Late?

by Norm in

jw
friends

always late .

one of the watchtower society favorite themes is how incredibly late it is.

it is in fact always later than you think.

Norm

Always late

One of the Watchtower Society favorite themes is how incredibly ”late” it is. It is in fact always “Later than you think”. The problem is that most of the people who believe how “late” it always is, seem to completely lack the ability to do much thinking.

Have those present at a series of assemblies held in 1949 experienced any truth in the “public address held with the title: “It Is Later than You Think”?

*** w52 1/15 59 Assemblies in Frankfurt, Berlin, St. John's ***
After a dinner at the Berlin office, Brother Knorr and his companions went to the Woodland Stage, where at the district assembly July 29-31, 1949, a Resolution challenging and protesting to the Communist authorities of East Germany was adopted by 17,232 witnesses, this being followed by a public address by the German branch servant on “It Is Later than You Think” to 33,657 hearers.

Those present back then who is still alive will of course have to conclude that it wasn’t at all that “late”, why? Because they are still here 51 years later, and the speaker was of course talking trough his hat, spouting the usual Jehovah's Witness nonsense.

Have the Watchtower Society learned anything from this? Of course not! In 1968 it was time again. It was “Later than you think” time again:

*** g97 1/22 24 "When I Am Weak, Then I Am Powerful" ***
The Witness who brought the magazines had been coming by for about a year, but my routine did not change until I finally read the October 8, 1968, issue of Awake!, entitled “Is It Later Than You Think?” I liked what I read, and happily, it affected my husband in the same way. We began studying and absorbing the truth like sponges. We couldn’t get enough of all the wonderful things we were learning. In 1969 we were baptized.

They say that there is a sucker born every minute, and here we can read about at least two of them. Maybe they should have changed the heading to “When I am weak in the head, etc.”
Anyway, this was 32 years ago and hopefully these idiots have found out by now that it wasn’t at all as “late” as the Awake!, was “thinking”. As usual it turned out to be sheer nonsense. Now, have they learned anything from it? Of course not, in 1991 it is “Later Than You Think” time yet again:

*** w91 4/1 7 Is It Later Than You Think? ***
The Jerusalem of Jeremiah’s day was warned of its coming destruction; its inhabitants only scoffed, but it was later than they thought. Today, a much greater warning of Armageddon’s destruction is being sounded, with overwhelming supporting evidence. (Revelation 14:6, 7, 17-20) Millions turn a deaf ear. But time is running out; it is later than they think. Is it later than you think?

If this mindless idiocy continues, there will probably be a Watchtower issue with the same title 50 years from now, because superstition seems to be hard to get rid of. Come to think of it, the magazines have so many more ways of being useful. This lady used the Watchtower for insomnia, which is great. I have tried it myself, pick up a Watchtower/Awake!, and you will be fast asleep after the first 5 sentences:

*** yb70 225-6 Country Reports (Part Two) ***
The Watchtower and Awake! magazines have played a big role in spreading the good news of the established Kingdom. The special issue of Awake! on the theme “Is It Later than You Think?” was left with a Catholic lady in an outlying area of the territory. This lady was very difficult to contact during the winter months because of impassable roads. So three months elapsed before another contact was made. In the meantime what was happening? The lady read this special issue of Awake! over and over again, keeping it by her bedside so she could read it before going to sleep.

It is quite clear that the Watchtower Society have great problems with the subject of something being “late”. But the word “late” isn’t the only one in the Watchtower vocabulary, which they don’t seem to understand; they have exactly the same problem with the word “soon”. In 1950, the end was of course coming “soon”

*** w50 7/1 203 The Real Feast of Ingathering Under Way ***
Reports coming from various parts of the world prove that the work of the anointed remnant is expanding and that the multitude of the Lord’s other sheep are hearing the message and coming to the only place of safety on earth today, that is, the Lord’s organization; and happy is the man that has a part in this great work that will soon end to the glory of Jehovah and the blessing of all that take their stand on his side.
*** w50 7/1 203 The Real Feast of Ingathering Under Way ***
27 We have now reached the time of the end, that is, the consummation of this old system of things, and there is much work to be done before the storm of Armageddon breaks to destroy Satan’s wicked organization that has so long reproached the name of Jehovah and persecuted all that took their stand on his side of the great controversy.

In 1997, the same end would still come “soon”:

*** w97 5/15 19-20 Theocratic Administration in the Christian Era ***
The events foretold in Jesus’ great prophecy about “the time of the end” have been coming to pass since 1914, showing that the destruction of this world is near. (Daniel 12:4; Matthew 24:3-14; Mark 13:4-20; Luke 21:7-24) Soon, Jehovah will usher in a new world in which ‘the generation to come’ will ‘inherit the kingdom [the earthly realm] prepared for them from the founding of the world.’

Of course this endless folly is only natural. You can’t expect people who wait for something that was promised to happen “soon” 2000 years ago, to have any meaningful understanding of the very word soon. So the comedy/tragedy continues in the Watchtower where the end will be coming “soon” for many years yet. One thing is really certain though, when the Watchtower Society says “It Is Later Than You Think” it is always wrong, unless of course it might be later than they think for the Watchtower Society itself.

Norm.

Edited by - Norm on 13 March 2001 2:45:49

8

Do you practice incest?

by Norm in

comfort for those with a stricken spirit.

*** w95 11/1 25-6 "comfort for those with a "stricken spirit" ***.

*** w95 11/1 26 "comfort for those with a "stricken spirit" ***.

Norm

Hi Larc,

You said:

"By the way, are you the guy I met at Michael's house in Ohio?"

Yes, I am one and the same :-)

Norm.

8

Do you practice incest?

by Norm in

comfort for those with a stricken spirit.

*** w95 11/1 25-6 "comfort for those with a "stricken spirit" ***.

*** w95 11/1 26 "comfort for those with a "stricken spirit" ***.

Norm

Would you like to be able to do this undisturbed and with no risk of being punished?

If your answer to these questions is yes, you should not hesitate but as soon as possible get in contact with the nearest congregation of Jehovah's Witnesses, and ask for a ”study”.
By taking some simple precautions, like never taking two spectators to your abuse sessions (you can take one), you will be able to abuse as many children as you want without much danger of ever being held responsible for it.

The Pedophile Paradise

Why use a lot of money to go to Asia to abuse children, when you can have it all at home?
In the Jehovah's Witnesses congregations there will always be a good supply of little boy’s and girls. You just have to pick and choose, and you can always rely on the protection and support of the elders against possible accusations from your victims. And in addition they will see to it that the police is never involved.

Do you think this is a tasteless joke? Unfortunately it isn’t.

Let us take a look at an article published in the Watchtower magazine November 1, 1995 issue on pages 25 to 29, with the title:

“Comfort for Those With a “Stricken Spirit”

Problems with incest has reached such proportions in their congregations that the Watchtower Society has been forced to “deal” with it in their literature. As the title of the article indicates it has the apparent aim to “comfort” the victims of such abuse, but when reading the article there seem to be little real comfort for them:

The article brings up the problem of “Repressed memories” and states the following:

*** w95 11/1 25-6 "Comfort for Those With a "Stricken Spirit" ***
In recent years some have been “brokenhearted” for reasons that others find difficult to understand. They are adults who, on the basis of what have been described as “repressed memories,” say that they were sexually abused when they were children. Some have no thought of having been molested until, unexpectedly, they experience flashbacks and “memories” of an adult (or adults) abusing them when they were young."

The article continues to say that mental-health professionals, don’t really understand these memories and not surprisingly state the following:

*** w95 11/1 26 "Comfort for Those With a "Stricken Spirit" ***
So we look with confidence to God’s Word for guidance in handling them. The Bible provides “discernment in all things.” (2 Timothy 2:7; 3:16) It also helps all concerned to put faith in Jehovah, “the Father of tender mercies and the God of all comfort, who comforts us in all our tribulation.”—2 Corinthians 1:3, 4."

This kind of reasoning is unfortunately what usually lands the victims in the problems in the fist place. The Bible unfortunately provides no help for such victims. Faith in “Jehovah” is as we know synonymous with faith in the Watchtower organization and it’s representatives. Usually it is one of these representatives of this organization, which is the abuser. For the victims that kind of faith and trust was misused and exploited in the most despicable manner.
“Jehovah” and his alleged “organization” was helpless to prevent the abuse and by its very structure are only geared for protecting the abuser. If for arguments sake we exchange “Jehovah” with your own “fleshly” father. Let us say he had a “ring side view” to the abuse, like Jehovah has, being omni-whatever, and he didn’t do anything to help you and protect you but just let this trusted “brother” molest away. How would you feel when the Elders came to you and demanded that you should “trust” your father? What respect would anyone have for such a father? How sick and twisted is it possible to get for believers?

The Watchtower continues:

*** w95 11/1 26 "Comfort for Those With a "Stricken Spirit" ***
In the world, there is much controversy as to what these “memories” are and to what extent they represent things that actually happened. Jehovah’s Witnesses are “no part of the world” and take no part in this controversy. (John 17:16) According to published reports, “memories” have sometimes proved to be accurate. For example, after insurance adjuster Frank Fitzpatrick “remembered” being molested by a certain priest, almost one hundred others came forward to claim that they too had been abused by the same priest. The priest reportedly admitted to the abuse."

The article points out that such memories has turned out to be wrong, and when it comes to help such people the article mention the example of the “neighborly Samaritan”. Then the article proceeds to give them most strange interpretation of that parable that has ever been printed. Let us look at this masterpiece:

*** w95 11/1 26 "Comfort for Those With a "Stricken Spirit" ***
When the Samaritan came along, his heart went out to the wounded man. What did he do? Did he insist on hearing every last detail about the beating? Or did the Samaritan get a description of the robbers and immediately chase after them? No."

The message from the Watchtower Society is as follows: “Don’t talk about details, distract the already confused victim as much as possible, try to convince him/her to put the lid on the whole thing for good.”

The article then state:

*** w95 11/1 26 "Comfort for Those With a "Stricken Spirit" ***
True, there is a difference between physical wounds and a “stricken spirit” caused by actual childhood sexual abuse. But both cause great suffering. Hence, what the Samaritan did for the wounded Jew shows what can be done to help an afflicted fellow Christian. The first priority is to give loving comfort and to help him recover."

Yes, and how do they do that? One of the greatest concerns for a victim would of course be for justice and the knowledge that the abuser will be taken care of to protect other potential victims. A lot of mumbo jumbo about forgiving and you are probably just hallucinating probably isn’t much comfort. A new low is then reached with the next statement:

*** w95 11/1 26 "Comfort for Those With a "Stricken Spirit" ***
Can we doubt that the Devil now plays upon child abuse and the “downhearted spirit” of many adults who suffered this (or are troubled by “memories” of having suffered it) to try to weaken the faith of Christians?"

What fantastic comfort this must be for the abused! Of course this is what every victim of sexual abuse need, to be served some superstitious clap trap about the Devil planting memories in their heads, and that their abusers is probably innocent. “Oh, don’t bother about these pesky memories, it is the Devil trying to lure you out of the wonderful “truth”. Every trick in the book must be used to prevent the victim from starting to talk to others about such memories. This would of course set the Watchtower Society in a very negative light and that simply must be avoided at all costs.

Then follows a lot of talk about the importance of trusting God and remember that Jesus loves you. Etc. Totally missing from such twisted and insane reasoning is of course where God and Jesus were when the abuse took place. Obviously they were powerless to prevent the evil deed, and why should they deserve such immense trust now? Of course it is always the victim who is asked to “endure”. Why should they endure?

We find the reason here:

*** w95 11/1 27 "Comfort for Those With a "Stricken Spirit" ***
What of the Alleged Abuser?
A person who actually abuses a child sexually is a rapist and should be viewed as such. Anyone victimized in this way has the right to accuse his abuser. Still, an accusation should not be made hastily if it is based solely on “repressed memories” of abuse. In this case the most important thing is for the sufferer to regain a degree of emotional stability. After the passage of some time, he may be in a better position to assess the “memories” and decide what, if anything, he wants to do about them."

The follows another set of statements that show why victims of incest in the Watchtower Society really need all the strength they can muster:

*** w95 11/1 28 "Comfort for Those With a "Stricken Spirit" ***
If there is some valid reason to suspect that the alleged perpetrator is still abusing children, a warning may have to be given. The congregation elders can help in such a case. Otherwise, take your time. Eventually, you may be content to let the matter drop. If, though, you want to confront the alleged perpetrator (after first assessing how you would feel about the possible responses), you have a right to do so."

As we can clearly see from the above quotes the central leadership in the Watchtower Society isn’t very happy for or interested in having victims of incest “rocking the boat”. In some cases the abuser is himself an Elder. When an Elder have abused you, possibly for years, some times even with the knowledge of other Elders, it shouldn’t be difficult to understand the difficulty you have with trusting any of them.

When one read articles like this is easy to see how guiding the wording is. It isn’t a coincidence that words like: “an accusation should not be made hastily”; “After the PASSAGE of some TIME, he may be in a better position to assess the “memories” and decide what, IF ANYTHING, he wants to do about them.”; “If there is some valid reason to suspect that the alleged perpetrator is still abusing children, a warning MAY have to be given.”; “Otherwise, TAKE YOUR TIME”; Eventually, you may be CONTENT TO LET THE MATTER DROP” (my capitalisation) . After having received some sessions with this kind of “comfort” the victim usually get the message from Brooklyn, which is, forget it! Of course you knew all along that when it is your word against “Brother Elder” you didn’t stand much chance anyway. Somehow he forgot to bring two witnesses to observe the act.

The imitation “comfort” given by the Watchtower Society is even more visible in the next section of the article, under the heading:

What Can Elders Do?

As we will see they can’t do much but increase the victims problems:

*** w95 11/1 28 "Comfort for Those With a "Stricken Spirit" ***
What if the sufferer decides that he wants to make an accusation? Then the two elders can advise him that, in line with the principle at Matthew 18:15, he should personally approach the accused about the matter. If the accuser is not emotionally able to do this face-to-face, it can be done by telephone or perhaps by writing a letter. In this way the one accused is given the opportunity to go on record before Jehovah with his answer to the accusation. He may even be able to present evidence that he could not have committed the abuse. Or perhaps the one accused will confess, and a reconciliation may be achieved. What a blessing that would be!"

This “advice” is really a gem. The victim should approach the abuser, wow! But if the victim doesn’t feel up to it, will the Elders help? Not really, it is still the victim who must do it, by telephone or letter. What wonderful insight they have in Brooklyn. The article staggers on and get more pathetic by every sentence:

*** w95 11/1 28-9 "Comfort for Those With a "Stricken Spirit" ***
If the accusation is denied, the elders should explain to the accuser that nothing more can be done in a judicial way. And the congregation will continue to view the one accused as an innocent person. The Bible says that there must be two or three witnesses before judicial action can be taken. (2 Corinthians 13:1; 1 Timothy 5:19) Even if more than one person “remembers” abuse by the same individual, the nature of these recalls is just too uncertain to base judicial decisions on them without other supporting evidence. This does not mean that such “memories” are viewed as false (or that they are viewed as true). But Bible principles must be followed in establishing a matter judicially."

Here we can enjoy the pure genius of the Watchtower Society in full flight. By clinging to the “law” of an old Hebrew nomadic tribe they have created a safe environment for predators in general and pedophiles in particular. What a paradise! But it can still be even more pathetic:

*** w95 11/1 29 "Comfort for Those With a “Stricken Spirit” ***
What if the one accused—though denying the wrongdoing—is really guilty? Does he “get away with it,” as it were? Certainly not! The question of his guilt or innocence can be safely left in Jehovah’s hands."

That’s all the abuser has to do. He can deny everything and he is safe. As long as he haven’t sold tickets to the very act, he can go on indefinitely, after all such people doesn’t exist in the “New World Society”, do they?

Let us in conclusion look back to the quote further above about the priest that had abused over 100 persons. Apparently he confessed to the crimes, but if he had been a Witness and chosen NOT to admit to any wrongdoing, he would still be a Witness in good standing. Why? Because he neglected to bring two eye witnesses to the crime. Is that a problem? Not to the Watchtower Society. It is Biblical justice.

Norm.

Edited by - Norm on 12 March 2001 4:41:17