Posts by Norm

57

IF YOU COULD LIVE ANYWHERE IN THE WORLD.......

by Mary in

jw
friends

.

where would you live??

for me, it'd be: hawaii..........no more filthy rotten lousy snow in april and may......or any other time of the year for that matter..............hell, i'd be willing to live on the beach if i could..........

Norm

I think I already live there:

http://home.broadpark.no/~nhovl/living/index.html

Norm

4

kent's observer site

by pepheuga in

.

has kent's place gone down again?

i can't get it from the link at my place.

Norm

Do you really think Kent is that easy to scare? Didn't you read those mails? Norm

35

Convention Drama, an example of Anachronistic Propaganda

by VM44 in

the recent 2005 "godly obedience" convention drama is an example of an anachronism!

and of propaganda!.

so why is the dram an example of anachronistic propaganda?.

Norm

<div>Hi folks,

Here you can enjoy some "refreshing" puctures of the "drama":

http://community.webshots.com/album/385626290hhyGJO

And in case you are joining here is a notebook for the convention:

http://www.benavery.co.uk/PDF/ObedienceNotebook.pdf

Norm</div>

45

Gods Hero[s]

by Norm in

those who are believers and worry about meeting gods standard for moral, ethics and general behavior seem to have very little to worry about.

at least if we are to take the bible serious.

most christians seems to be very selective in such matters.

Norm

A very interesting book by the title:

The Bible Unearthed : Archaeology's New Vision of Ancient Israel and the Origin of Its Sacred Texts

Is available on Amamzon and other book stores. I highly recommed reading it. You will change your view of the Bible forever after reading it. Here are some comments you can check up:

http://www.atheistcoalition.org/docs/bible-unearthed.html
http://www.rense.com/general18/bible.htm
http://www.thetruthseeker.co.uk/article.asp?ID=2554
http://www.bibleinterp.com/commentary/Finkelstein_Silberman022001.htm

Norm

2

A house for yourself or for the Lord?

by Norm in

have you built a house for yourself before building one for the lord?

i have to admit i have never taken the lord into consideration when i have tried to get a place to live.

the lord seems to be a very strange being, as he is both homeless and always broke, without any funds whatsoever.

Norm

How to con people.

Have you built a house for yourself before building one for the Lord? I have to admit I have never taken the Lord into consideration when I have tried to get a place to live. First of all I was never aware that the Lord was homeless, second I didn’t know that he could live in a house. The Lord seems to be a very strange being, as he is both homeless and always broke, without any funds whatsoever.

But what do you do when you have the money and resources to build a stately mansion in a lovely climate when you are the ruler of thousands of dirt poor people, spending all their resources and energy on selling the fourth rate crap you write? What do you do to sell such a blatant example of hypocrisy, to those poor dopes?

Here is how it is done folks:

“It is not always convenient to get a comfortable place to live when it is necessary to rent a house for a few months. For the past two years I and other brethren close to Brother Rutherford have urged upon him the necessity of a house in San Diego where he can live and do the work that is so necessary to be done. Last year, in company with a few other brethren, we pressed this matter upon him, at that time the Lord having provided the means for the building of the house so that it would not be a burden on the Society He finally consented that the house might be built only upon condition that it should be exclusively for use of the Lord's work, henceforth and for ever, and not for any private gain for any one. In October, 1929, I went to California and acquired the title to the ground in my name and entered into a contract with the builder, and the house was constructed in my name. I again went to California at the beginning of the year 1930 to close up the building arrangements. I am happy to have any part in this because I know what it means for the Lord's work.

I feel sure that the Lord loves Brother Rutherford as much as he loved David. David built a house for himself and afterwards thought about building one for the Lord. After repeated urging by loyal brethren the San Diego house was built, but Brother Rutherford refused to have it for himself except to use it for the Lord's work. A deed was made conveying the title to the house. This deed was written by Brother Rutherford himself. I am certain there is no other deed to any piece of property like it under the sun. I am grateful to the Lord that I had anything to do with it. The deed is a matter of public record on the deed records of San Diego, California, and therefore I am at full liberty to publish it, and I do here submit the deed for publication so that all may see and understand how much Brother Rutherford has been libeled and slandered by those who would injure the Lord's work.

I am certain that the loyal ones would have been glad to help finance the house had opportunity been given, and that they will rejoice when they know that this property will be for ever for the Lord's people; that when Brother Rutherford is through with it somebody else in the Lord's work will have it, and when David and Joseph or some of the other ancient worthies return they will have it.” Golden Age, 03.19.1930 pp. 405, 406.

This bootlicking, butt kissing drivel was written by one of Rutherford’s nodders and yes men, Robert J. Martin. Isn’t it incredible what you can sell to “ true believers”. The Lord would of course not mind having Rutherford loaning his house for a while, before David and “the other ancient worthies” returned to move in. Now enjoy the hilarious and incredible deed made to “prove” that Rutherford didn’t want the house for “private use”. As you can see the insanity scream at you from every word:

The Deed

“Both the grantor and the grantee, the said JOSEPH F. RUTHERFORD are fully persuaded from the Bible testimony, which is. the Word of Jehovah God, and from extraneous evidence that God's kingdom is now in course of establishment and that it will result beneficially to the peoples of earth; that the governing power and authority will be invisible to men but that the kingdom of God will have visible representatives on the earth who will have charge of the affairs of the nations under the supervision of the invisible ruler Christ; that among those who will thus be the faithful representatives and visible governors of the world will be David, who was once king over Israel; and Gideon, and Barak, and Samson, and Jephthae, and Joseph, formerly the ruler of Egypt, and Samuel the prophet and other faithful men who were named with approval in the Bible at Hebrews the eleventh chapter. The condition herein is that the said WATCH TOWER BIBLE AND TRACT SOCIETY shall hold said title perpetually in trust for the use of any or all of the men above named as representatives of God's kingdom on earth and that such men shall have possession and use of said property hereinabove described as they may deem for the best interest for the work in which they are engaged.

This property has been acquired and the improvements built thereon at the instance and under the direction of the said JOSEPH F. RUTHERFORD and dedicated to Jehovah God and to His King Christ who is the rightful ruler of the earth and for the express purpose of being used by those who are servants of Jehovah God. For this reason the provision is made in this deed that the property shall be for ever used for that purpose subject to any encumbrances that may have been placed thereupon.

IT IS FURTHER PROVIDED that if the said JOSEPH F. RUTHERFORD while alive on the earth shall by lease, deed or contract provide that any other person or persons connected with the said WATCH TOWER BIBLE AND TRACT SOCIETY shall have the right to reside on said premises until the appearing of David or some of the other men mentioned in the eleventh chapter of Hebrews as above set forth even such person or persons so designated by the said JOSEPH F. RUTHERFORD in such lease or other paper writing shall have the right and privilege of residing on said premises until the same be taken possession of by David or some of the other men herein named and this property and premises being dedicated to Jehovah and the use of his kingdom it shall be used as such for ever. Any persons appearing to take possession of said premises shall first prove and identify themselves to the proper officers of said Society as the person or persons described in Hebrews chapter eleven and in this deed. IN WITNESS WHEREOF I the said ROBERT J. MARTIN and the said JOSEPH F. RUTHERFORD have hereunto signed our names this 24th day of December A.D. 1929.

ROBERT J. MARTIN

JOSEPH F. RUTHERFORD”

Golden Age, 03.19.1930 pp. 405, 406.

This particular kind of insanity can be seen in the Watchtower Society to this day with the tendency to “explain” every detail of Watchtower policy with some half baked Biblical reference, no matter how insane, silly and far fetched it is. One prime example is the idea of the “Governing Body”, where the fantastic leap of faith is required that when Jesus, 2000 years ago allegedly talked about the “Faithful and Discreet Slave” he had a mind a bunch of halfwit geriatrics in Brooklyn, New York, Wow! But when you have the right kind of “faith” you can believe anything, and people do.

If I were an unscrupulous, scumbag bastard, I know what I should do for a living. There are millions of idiots out there just waiting for someone to come along and take advantage of them. The more incredible insane and unreal your message is the stronger they will believe. The Churches has sold illusions and thin air for thousands of years already and with enormous success. Just face it folks, elaborate con games based on superstition and nonsense is one of the best career opportunities there is, the only requirement is charm and being totally without any morals whatsoever. If you actually believe in the insane nonsense yourself it is even better. If you want to live the good life with plenty of money, property and all the women you want, become a "Preacher" and nothing can stop you.

Norm.

45

Gods Hero[s]

by Norm in

those who are believers and worry about meeting gods standard for moral, ethics and general behavior seem to have very little to worry about.

at least if we are to take the bible serious.

most christians seems to be very selective in such matters.

Norm

defd

Personally I have given the Bible many chances for the last 35 years. it has always failed, but by all means share with us all it's supposedly hidden depths and virtues. You must know something many of us have missed. You can start with explaining to me what I have missed in the Samson story. Here is your chance of making us all understand.

Norm

45

Gods Hero[s]

by Norm in

those who are believers and worry about meeting gods standard for moral, ethics and general behavior seem to have very little to worry about.

at least if we are to take the bible serious.

most christians seems to be very selective in such matters.

Norm

defd

By all means, why don't you tell us all the truth about Samson then?

After all we all want the facts you know.

Norm

21

Grounds for divorce.

by Norm in

jw
friends

divorce has always been a tricky thing in the watchtower world and has been subject of many articles in the literature.

for a year - from january 1972 until december the same year, "christian" husbands could technically screw anything with a pulse in the animal world without giving his spouse a "biblical" reason to divorce him.

the only thing he had to be careful about if having sex with humans - men or women was to use the "rear entrance".

Norm

Hello NeonMadman,

You said:

Many Christian believers live happy, productive lives, doing good for their fellow man to the best of their ability.

Indeed there is, and that's only because they completely ignore 90% of the icredible insane nonsense the Bible spew.

Norm

45

Gods Hero[s]

by Norm in

those who are believers and worry about meeting gods standard for moral, ethics and general behavior seem to have very little to worry about.

at least if we are to take the bible serious.

most christians seems to be very selective in such matters.

Norm

And that was all you got out of the story? I am not going to debate or make an issue out of her nationality, which is really irrelevant for the story, but no place in the relevant texts is her nationality revealed so it will be pure guesswork, I guess she was Philistine, you guess she was jewish. Anyway it is sidetracking the whole post.

Norm

45

Gods Hero[s]

by Norm in

those who are believers and worry about meeting gods standard for moral, ethics and general behavior seem to have very little to worry about.

at least if we are to take the bible serious.

most christians seems to be very selective in such matters.

Norm

Those who are believers and worry about meeting God’s standard for moral, ethics and general behavior seem to have very little to worry about. At least if we are to take the Bible serious. Most Christians seems to be very selective in such matters. Take the example of the well know Hero and Judge, Samson. Just like with Jesus, the Bible claims it took a direct intervention from God in order for Samson to be born:

*** Rbi8 Judges 13:2-5 ***
2 Meanwhile there happened to be a certain man of Zo'rah of the family of the Dan'ites, and his name was Ma•no'ah. And his wife was barren and had borne no child. 3 In time Jehovah’s angel appeared to the woman and said to her: “Look, now, you are barren and have borne no child. And you will certainly become pregnant and give birth to a son. 4 And now watch yourself, please, and do not drink wine or intoxicating liquor, and do not eat anything unclean. 5 For, look! you will be pregnant, and you will certainly give birth to a son, and no razor should come upon his head, because a Naz'i•rite of God is what the child will become on leaving the belly; and he it is who will take the lead in saving Israel out of the hand of the Phi•lis'tines.”

God seems to love this “barren woman” trick since he pulled it so often according to the Bible. In this incidence the writer didn’t even take the trouble of telling us the name of this remarkable woman. Anyway she got the son and for some inexplicable reason he was of course different from all other babies because he was “getting bigger” and Jehovah continued to “bless him”. Then God’s “spirit” apparently started to work on Samson:

*** Rbi8 Judges 13:24-25 ***
24 Later the woman gave birth to a son and called his name Samson; and the boy kept getting bigger, and Jehovah continued to bless him. 25 In time Jehovah’s spirit started to impel him in Ma'ha•neh-dan between Zo'rah and Esh'ta•ol.

What did God’s spirit influence Samson to do? Let us find out:

*** Rbi8 Judges 14:1-2 ***
14 Then Samson went down to Tim'nah and saw a woman in Tim'nah of the daughters of the Phi•lis'tines. 2 So he went up and told his father and his mother and said: “There is a woman that I have seen in Tim'nah of the daughters of the Phi•lis'tines, and now get her for me as a wife.

Well, apparently God made him think about, and (gasp) want sex because he wanted to marry, not to a fine Jewish woman, but a Philistine woman. God had apparently for some reason seen fit to endow Samson with “great strength”, one of the way’s Samson used this ability was to be cruel to animals, apparently something greatly admired in those days:

*** Rbi8 Judges 14:5-7 ***
5 Accordingly Samson went on down with his father and his mother to Tim'nah. When he got as far as the vineyards of Tim'nah, why, look! a maned young lion roaring upon meeting him. 6 Then Jehovah’s spirit became operative upon him, so that he tore it in two, just as someone tears a male kid in two, and there was nothing at all in his hand. And he did not tell his father or his mother what he had done. 7 And he continued on his way down and began to speak to the woman; and she was still right in Samson’s eyes.

As we can see tearing a male kid in two seemed like a common pastime among Samson’s contemporaries.

Samson also was quite a party man, according to the Bible he held a banquet that lasted for 7 days. If he tried such a stunt today Brooklyn would have been very displeased indeed. In the beginning of the banquet he tells the 30 Philistine groomsmen a riddle they have to solve before the banquet is over. Apparently this was serious business because the groomsmen threaten to burn down her father’s house if she doesn’t help them find out the answer to the riddle. This sent Samson’s wife into a crying fit lasting the 7 days of the banquet. It must have been quite a damper on the party having the wife of the host sobbing away all the time. But the crying eventually worked on Samson so he gave her the solution for the riddle, which she in turn told the despicable groomsmen. Samson seems to have learned about what happened:

*** Rbi8 Judges 14:17-18 ***
18 So the men of the city said to him on the seventh day before ever he could go into the interior room:
“What is sweeter than honey,
And what is stronger than a lion?”
In turn he said to them:
“If YOU had not plowed with my young cow,
YOU would not have solved my riddle.”

Here we can see the origin of the still doubtful custom of referring to women as heifers or cows, but what else can you expect from men of God? Now, what did Samson do? Did he pull a similar stunt as with the lion, and tear these deceptive groomsmen apart as a punishment for their despicable behavior? Let us find out:

*** Rbi8 Judges 14:19 ***
19 And Jehovah’s spirit became operative upon him, so that he went down to Ash'ke•lon and struck down thirty men of theirs and took what he stripped off them and gave the outfits to the tellers of the riddle. And his anger continued hot, and he went his way up to his father’s house.

Jehovah’s spirit made him very angry but instead of venting this anger on the guilty men he went to another place and killed 30 men who had had nothing to do with the whole matter, took their clothes and gave them to the 30 groomsmen, go figure. A man who randomly kills 30 strangers is what we today call a mass murderer and this guy also did it under the influence of Jehovah’s spirit. I mean get hold of your children and read this story to them, it is immensely up building and after that you can never say that they are really badly behaved. Isn't the Word of God wonderful?

Samson had no doubt been very displeased with the behavior of his wife, so much so that her father thought he hated her and had given her to one of the groomsmen, apparently this was what Samson had been “planning” for:

*** Rbi8 Judges 15:1-3 ***
So he said: “I will go in to my wife in the interior room.” And her father did not allow him to go in. 2 But her father said: “I really said to myself, ‘You must unquestionably hate her.’ Hence I gave her to your groomsman. Is not her younger sister better than she is? Let her, please, become yours instead of the other.” 3 However, Samson said to them: “This time I must be free of guilt against the Phi•lis'tines in case I am dealing with them to their injury.”

This did of course not help much to quench Samson’s anger and he had to find some other sick depraved way of venting it so let us see what happened next:

*** Rbi8 Judges 15:4-5 ***
4 And Samson went his way and proceeded to catch three hundred foxes and to take torches and turn tail to tail and put one torch between two tails, right in the middle. 5 With that he set fire to the torches and sent them out into the fields of standing grain of the Phi•lis'tines. Thus he set on fire everything from sheaf to standing grain and the vineyards and the olive groves.

Again we can see how this hero of God treated innocent animals and used them to devastate the crops of his enemies. Now the Philistines got a chance to show that they without the help of Jehovah could be just as vicious as the Jews:

*** Rbi8 Judges 15:6 ***
6 And the Phi•lis'tines began to say: “Who did this?” Then they said: “It was Samson the son-in-law of the Tim'nite, because he took his wife and then gave her to his groomsman.” At that the Phi•lis'tines went up and burned her and her father with fire.

Instead of coming after Samson and punish him for his act, they turned their rage toward the poor woman and her father, what had they done to deserve such a gruesome death? Then in true Middle East tradition, which we can see is still alive and well today, the violence escalated as Samson slaughtered a great number of Philistines. The other Jew’s didn’t seem very pleased with Samson because they tied him up and delivered him to the Philistines as the no doubt insane murderer he was, but of course with the help of Jehovah he was able to kill a thousand of them with a jaw bone of an ass. But the madman, liar and mass murderer Samson had other excellent Godly qualities too:

*** Rbi8 Judges 16:1-3 ***
16 Once Samson went to Ga'za and saw a prostitute woman there and came in to her. 2 And report was made to the Ga'zites, saying: “Samson has come in here.” So they surrounded him and lay in wait for him all night long in the city gate. And they kept quiet the whole night, saying: “As soon as the morning gets light, we must also kill him.”
3 However, Samson kept lying till midnight and then rose at midnight and grabbed hold of the doors of the city gate and the two side posts and pulled them out along with the bar and put them upon his shoulders and went carrying them up to the top of the mountain that is in front of He'bron.

Samson would of course not dream of doing something as vile as masturbating so instead he went to a whore in Gaza. His night with this no doubt remarkable and talented woman was so invigorating for him that in the morning he ripped out the city gates and carried them up to the top of a nearby hill. But being a man with an obviously great appetite for female companionship and a clear preference for Philistine women he soon cast his eyes upon another one by the name of Delilah, you know, by the same name as in the Tom Jones song.

However, Samson didn’t have much luck in choice of women as Delilah proved to be as much of a whiner as the first one and he didn’t learn much from that experience so he gave in to the whining this time too. Then we really get into the unmistakable realm of the superstitious nonsense and folklore. As we know the secret was in his hair. With a shaved head Samson, and even Jehovah was helpless. Then the Philistines were tying him up again and then they performed another very popular Biblical pastime and they put out his eyes. The rest of this story we know, with his 7 locks (no doubt rastafarian dreadlock style) now grown back, he calls for the help of the chief mass murderer, Jehovah, and together they kill a lot of Philistines. And this “Hero” was their “Judge” for 20 years. Poor Jewish people, no wonder they are so messed up.

But as I mentioned in the beginning, it shouldn’t be very difficult for anyone to live up to Jehovah’s standard for a genuine hero. Partying, frequenting whorehouses, tormenting animals, mass murder etc. Compared to Samson we all stand out as extremely good people, don’t you think?

Norm.