Posts by OutsiderLookingIn

23

How to wind up a JW

by slimboyfat in

tell him that jesus probably didn't get married or it would have mentioned it in the bible, but at the same time we can't be 100% sure he didn't get married because it doesn't specifically say he didn't get married.

stand back watch fireworks.. i thought it was a pretty reasonable thing to say.

pop.

OutsiderLookingIn

Wasn't there an official WT teaching from some years back about how much of a sacrifice Jesus' death was?
As in, as many on here have posted, it really wasn't much of a sacrifice. 12 hours of torture, 36 hours of death, and then resurrection to glory. Millions if not billions of humans have had far more painful experiences.
So, the WT argument went, Jesus' sacrifice was that he could have fathered a race of perfect children. He could have decided to marry and try to reform human society through his descendants. He was potentially the father to millions of perfect human offspring, who could have transformed human society and even the planet. But that way was not "Jehovah's purpose", so he humbly did it Jehovah's way and made that sacrifice.

Huh?? How odd. The strangest and most infuriating thing to me is how the Watchtower will criticize the biblically sound beliefs of Christendom yet speculate ad nauseum on a series of "what ifs". Race of perfect children? With whom? Wouldn't His wife have been an imperfect human?

They cloud the issues at the heart of Christianity--who Jesus is and what He did--then glom on layers of "spiritual" nonsense. Missing the forest for the trees as usual and of course, missing the point that Jesus's sacrifice was as the ultimate Passover lamb--that's why the system of animal sacrifice isn't a part of Christianity. I'm convinced the only way the Watchtower makes any converts is because the unfamiliar information looks like insights rather than the confusion it really is .

14

The more things change, the more they stay the same

by OutsiderLookingIn in

oldskool wrote on another post that "the 'truth' is an experience, and the 'beliefs' are designed to get you to behave as a member of the experience.

" i've read a lot here about the many changes to the wtbts in recent years.

but this got me thinking about the practices or, for the most part, non-practices that make someone a jw.

OutsiderLookingIn

Thanks for these. Perhaps they can use some as catchphrases in their rebranding efforts:

JWs-- God's name is Jehovah and we don't clink glasses for toasts.

We hand out lifesaving Watchtower magazines and our women don't wear pants.

We have the truth so we don't say "bless you." (This one is still weird to me. )

14

The more things change, the more they stay the same

by OutsiderLookingIn in

oldskool wrote on another post that "the 'truth' is an experience, and the 'beliefs' are designed to get you to behave as a member of the experience.

" i've read a lot here about the many changes to the wtbts in recent years.

but this got me thinking about the practices or, for the most part, non-practices that make someone a jw.

OutsiderLookingIn

On another post, oldskool wrote: "the 'truth' is an experience, and the 'beliefs' are designed to get you to behave as a member of the experience." I've read a lot here about the many changes to the WTBTS in recent years. But this got me thinking about the longstanding practices or, for the most part, non-practices that make someone a JW. What has remained constant while doctrines are tossed aside? In the modern era of the JWs (let's say since the mid-50s), what has stayed the same? Here's what I've thought of so far:

no birthdays
no holidays
no blood transfusions
no voting
no military service
no illegal/non-prescription drugs
field service/door-to-door
God's name is Jehovah and you must use it or die at Armageddon
we have "the truth"

What else?

27

Old Relative Not Happy About Push To Use Ipads Etc

by disillusioned 2 in

i was in a close relatives house yesterday and she was having angry and resentful at the push to use electronic devices at the meetings.

she was talking to another relative of mine who has just got an ipad to use.

this relative of mine is very elderly and obviously prefers to use her bible and other books.

OutsiderLookingIn

Are the witnesses the only religion making this push to digital?
I can't think of anyone else who badgers their flock to abandon print.

As far as I know, yes. I've never heard of this and I really don't understand the point of making people feel uncomfortable (and "unspiritual") about using print books and a hard-copy Bible. Other churches allow both and it would never be mentioned as an issue or measure of devotion to God. I'm not an oldie but I still like print books. There is still tremendous value in print. Just like Lieu mentioned, it's portable and not dependent on external conditions. With the Bible, sometimes it's much easier to go to multiple passages in a hard copy than waiting for your phone to load on slow wi-fi.

This is a case of the Watchtower not wanting to spend the money. Because they are the only supplier of these materials, they are the only one bearing the cost of publication--and they don't wanna. It's also much easier to alter and remove digital media. Huge benefit for a group that would rather not be reminded of its past or keep a paper trail of its inconsistencies.

3

Interesting Prince quote from current Entertainment Weekly (yes, another Prince thread)

by OutsiderLookingIn in

this weekend, i was reading my cousin's hard copy of the entertainment weekly prince tribute (may 6, 2016 issue) and came across a very interesting quote.

ew journalist leah greenblatt, who conducted the last major magazine interview with prince in august 2015, recounted him saying: "religion is beautiful as long as you don't become a fanatic and start shutting other people out, other ideas.

prince may have still been a jw, but it sounds like he had a very open-minded approach to it.

OutsiderLookingIn

This weekend, I was reading my cousin's hard copy of the Entertainment Weekly Prince tribute (May 6, 2016 issue) and came across a very interesting quote. EW journalist Leah Greenblatt, who conducted the last major magazine interview with Prince in August 2015, recounted him saying: "Religion is beautiful as long as you don't become a fanatic and start shutting other people out, other ideas."

Say what?! Prince may have still been a JW, but it sounds like he had a very open-minded approach to it. Maybe he stuck around for the promise of paradise but didn't get into small-mindedness and looking down on non-JWs. I was so glad to read this. Whether or not it's the norm, Prince found some balance in the JW religion.

Unfortunately, I can't link to it because the EW website doesn't have the full article; it just refers you to ways to buy the magazine. I guess it's how to sell magazines in a dying industry. Check it out in a supermarket checkout lane near you. http://www.ew.com/article/2016/04/27/prince-ew-cover

15

Higher Education - is it really the end of the WT?

by OutsiderLookingIn in

as a non-jw, before i started looking into things, i must say i only encountered intelligent jws.

so i was quite surprised to read here and in the pew report about their low overall educational achievement.

granted, my exposure was limited (less than a handful of people over a lifetime) but i met two of them in post-college education (graduate school) at a very good school.

OutsiderLookingIn

Thanks for all the insight. I know it's anecdotal, but given my limited exposure to JWs, I was so surprised to hear the reality is the exact opposite of my own experience.

15

Higher Education - is it really the end of the WT?

by OutsiderLookingIn in

as a non-jw, before i started looking into things, i must say i only encountered intelligent jws.

so i was quite surprised to read here and in the pew report about their low overall educational achievement.

granted, my exposure was limited (less than a handful of people over a lifetime) but i met two of them in post-college education (graduate school) at a very good school.

OutsiderLookingIn

As a non-JW, before I started looking into things, I must say I only encountered intelligent JWs. So I was quite surprised to read here and in the PEW report about their low overall educational achievement. Granted, my exposure was limited (less than a handful of people over a lifetime) but I met TWO of them in post-college education (graduate school) at a very good school. I was friendlier with one during school (Dub A) and I got to know the other better after we graduated because we were in the same city (Dub B). Dub A wore it as a badge of honor--she’d drop the occasional “Jehovah God”, she chuckled and proclaimed that she was a JW when I suggested going to church together, and when I told her that I got to go to a Prince concert she didn’t hesitate to say “oh, you saw brother Prince.” I would forget that JWs don’t celebrate birthdays and invite them to my birthday celebrations. They wouldn’t come and Dub B even told me that she’s a JW so she doesn’t “do the whole birthday thing.”

Then last summer, I met a current student who was out in service. I asked a question and she gave me her email address, a school email for another good graduate school. I emailed her and have yet to receive a response.

I say all that to ask, why do people believe that higher education is a sign of trouble ahead for the WT? Is it because they’re going against official stance on education? If they still hold up the party line (no birthdays, pride in being a JW, even field service), then what is the excitement about? It’s a great personal achievement for sure, but in my experience, it doesn’t mean they’re moving from the WT. I’ll add that this was all within the last 10 years in case that makes a difference to your analysis.

51

A New Words With Friends Player Just Told Me That She Was a Jehovah's Witness And That's Why She's So Smart!

by minimus in

jw
friends

i saw she went under the handle of lovejahforever.....she said she is very smart and had cleaning jobs and was going in the ministry this morning.. when she told me she looked forward to beating me (she won the first game) she sid she was smart because she's a jehovah's witness.

my response was we will see how smart she is.. what next?

any suggestions??

OutsiderLookingIn

WHAT??! Who does that? What a weird thing to say. I would be annoyed and even more motivated to win. Maybe it's her version of a Jedi mind trick that lets her count time.

I'd just say: I dunno... it's been a long time since 1914.

Or: that's great! I've been dying to find out how many generations fit into an overlapping generation.

53

Here is what kind of person (Prince) a celebrity JW is

by Terry in

jw
friends

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=8lhcparuzpc

OutsiderLookingIn

Finkelstein, I'm talking about lies of the Watchtower machine (1914, God's organization, etc.) and interpretation of scriptures to control people instead of helping them grow in Christ. The story about Michael Jackson not even wanting anyone to acknowledge his birthday and wanting to celebrate Christmas--but it's okay because he had "Family Day"--makes me sad. As a non-JW, I've often wondered what a young child is told that well-wishes on his birthday as an adult would result in that emotional shutdown. All in the name of God

36

Faith, where now?

by Theburstbubble in

so for the first time ever i went to a church service at my local church (coe) and i have to say it was awful!

it was just like a ritual.

the vicar would say something and then the congregation would all say a phrase in unison back to him.

OutsiderLookingIn

So for the first time ever I went to a church service at my local church (COE) and I have to say it was awful! It was just like a ritual. The vicar would say something and then the congregation would all say a phrase in unison back to him. In between were prayers, hymns etc. This went on for an hour. It was totally unfeeling and I'm not sure how people even learn about the bible at such places.

Hi burstbubble, what day did you attend the service? I've never been to a Sunday WT service so I don't know how that compares. But the Sunday service of most churches is a worship service so there would be songs/hymns, liturgical or scripture readings, then a sermon. Even then, there are different worship styles depending on the church you attend so maybe the one you attended was more subdued. Many churches have a midweek Bible study which is typically smaller and will go into more extended discussion of an passage of scripture, not a hopscotch of verses.

Keep trying. I certainly didn't find my church on the first try. Even after I went, I alternated with other places just to make sure. It's worth the effort. Definitely take your time to investigate, make sure you're comfortable and that what they're saying is scripturally sound. Hope that helps :)