Morbid, but years ago in our area, Book Study Conductors were told to take photos of everyone in the Book Study...as these may be needed if someone was missing, or for the purpose of identifying a body.
They're preparing for tragedy. They're hungry for it.
Unlearn
JoinedPosts by Unlearn
-
18
FOUND JW EMERGENCY CONTACT LIST TAKE A LOOK!!!!!
by tiffy0212 inlooked into hubby's bag and found this paper.
they want to know person to contact in case of emergency , name of person in case of a disaster or evacuation-where would you like to go?
those who might be traveling with you (name, relationship.
-
-
Unlearn
-
105
I've lurked a long time: JW's produce some of the most paranoid humans
by Unlearn ini'll keep this brief for now.. long time lurker (4 years or so).. born-in, elder, used on district level (last talk i gave before i left was the baptisimal talk), and lots of hard time put in...before i finally made the move to split.
it's a long stoy, much like many of yours...but with it's own little interesting twists.
more details in the future, perhaps.. as i said, ive lurked here for a while.. its funny: for a long time i'd only come on late at night.
-
-
Unlearn
@ dontplaceliterature -
Aenima, eh?
So gla to hear you're awake and thinking as well. Hang in there with your wife. For me, it was a year long exercise...very planned. I looked for chances to undermine WT propaganda...and the chances present themselves regularly. With my wife, for instance, we would see some moving stoy of the human spirit by some humanitarian...or some self-less act covered on the news by an average-joe do-gooder...and after being moved, I'd immediately say something to her like, 'Wow, isn't the human spirit amazing?'. She'd chime in very affectionately that it is. And then I'd say, 'See, I just find it hard to believe that a person like this is somehow 'wrong' or 'harmful association'...just because they dont believe what I do about god. There are so many good people.'
And in the moment, she'd get it. And those moments add up.
I saw what she posted. Her inner struggle is written all over the page. She posts on an apostate site...even alludes to her own insecurities...but then neatly cleans it up at the end by basically saying, 'No one needs to answer this post, I wont respond cause it's a one-time-only thing'.
But she posted! On an apostate site. That means she can think for herself...and she can rebel against her 'training'. You're fortunate in that aspect: you know the possibility is there. Patiently build on it, man.
And, in the most respectful way possible, use your child. It's you alls most precious thing. Ask her, hypothetically, if the child needed blood to live, would she say yes or no? Then, remind her about the previous stand the WT had on organ transplants. Have her imagine your baby needing a kidney...or a liver, but living back in the time when WT said this was wrong. Have her imagine the baby dying. Then, have her imagine 2 or 3 years later, the WT flipping and saying that organ transplants now were a 'conscience matter'. Ask her then...how would she feel? Remind her that many faced that. Allude to the promise of your babies future...the great things they'll do and be. Ask her what is your babies life worth?
If she's all into that Bible, remind her of Abraham and Isaac. Jehovah wouldn't take Abrahams child: had an angel rush into the scene and scream at Abe that the gig was up. Why then would he take yours...if he knew that organ transplants were OK?
These kind of conversations...very real ones where I tried to bring the WT doctrines home and attach them to real people we knew and cared about...these were very effective. You've got to make her think in REALITY. She's in 'OZ' now.
I really hope you get her out, man. I love you so much. I know how you feel. I know the breathless desperation. Your wildest dreams CAN come true. You and your lady and your baby can be out, in the real world.
@ Ziddina -
You are goddamn right (excuse my french). Don't trust ANY of them. I'm talking about your parents, your siblings...NONE of them. They are NOT you're true friends. It hurts to realize, but it's true. It would be amazing to say that everyone close to you on the DNA family tree were also the same people you could trust the most. Sadly, that isn't always the case. Those people may only be just that: closest to you on the DNA family tree.
It's a nasty, mean thing. -
105
I've lurked a long time: JW's produce some of the most paranoid humans
by Unlearn ini'll keep this brief for now.. long time lurker (4 years or so).. born-in, elder, used on district level (last talk i gave before i left was the baptisimal talk), and lots of hard time put in...before i finally made the move to split.
it's a long stoy, much like many of yours...but with it's own little interesting twists.
more details in the future, perhaps.. as i said, ive lurked here for a while.. its funny: for a long time i'd only come on late at night.
-
-
Unlearn
@ mankkell -
Yes, read COC a few years ago. I've been out for a while...just keeping the details on the down low for right now.
Very glad you were able to find yourself free of someone elses 'dream', which is all I think dogma of ANY religion really is.
JW's pride themselves on being different. They take it as a very personal attack when you let them know, very matter-of-factly, that they are just like everyone else.
No more. No less. -
16
A question for current/former elders
by Mickey mouse inwhen you had to deal judicially with cases of apostasy, did it ever pique yout curiousity?
did anyone ever tell you about something they had learned that shocked you and made you investigate for yourself?.
-
-
Unlearn
Interesting...
Three times it came up during my service.
One I discussed in another thread here in a post from earlier today: the young woman was telling me things I already heard...1975, shunning, deep investigation of the Trinity, etc. I had already allowed myself to be conditioned to 'yea, yea, right' those things right out of my mind. Poor thinking.
The second time, it was a close friend...and it shocked me. I dismissed myself from any possibility of participating in that case. I was disturbed. This was an early tremor in my awakening.
The last time, it was brought up by a brother questioning the very reckless translating of the NWT, as well as some other information...which again included 1975 and shunning. Only this time, I was mentally out. What's funny is that it caused me to retreat very far from that situation and to make sure I had no hand in following up on that matter as well. It hit too close...and I was trying to protect my secret.
But LOTS of elders are awake.
Seriously. They are tired and scared...and very sad about their lives. Very sad. -
105
I've lurked a long time: JW's produce some of the most paranoid humans
by Unlearn ini'll keep this brief for now.. long time lurker (4 years or so).. born-in, elder, used on district level (last talk i gave before i left was the baptisimal talk), and lots of hard time put in...before i finally made the move to split.
it's a long stoy, much like many of yours...but with it's own little interesting twists.
more details in the future, perhaps.. as i said, ive lurked here for a while.. its funny: for a long time i'd only come on late at night.
-
-
Unlearn
Again, so thankful for the good wishes and welcomes.
My wife loves reading them as well: we feel like we know you all quite well already.
You just don't know: we've lurked here so long.@Viola - Yes, several people got 'passes' in my last year of serving. There was one exception: a young brother who had an issue that I could've let go, but pointing it out kept him from advancing further 'up the ladder'. Believe me, I did it for his own good. To keep him from reaching out. He was 'right there'...almost thinking for himself. 'Advancement' wouldv'e instantly appealed to his hungry ego...the ego of a young man who was never offered the chance to be great, successful, secularly respected, important, or anything else that really mattered in the real world. Young men in that congregation have only these 'privileges' to satisfy the natural urges to establish some sort of hard-fought identity. So, they fight over the next rung on the christian 'ladder'. These little bits of worthless cheese that are handed out are what keep all the mice 'in line'. Then, they only have to deal with the RATS, like us.
That final year of exericising alarmingly 'human' flexibility in elder's matters will do very little to quell the bitter thing I carry in my gut...the many people who I brought heartache to over the years by enforcing WT law. I remember a young woman who came to me years ago, in secret. She was in her early 20's and came to me in what she thought would be eternal confidence. She confessed that, although she believed in jesus, she did NOT believe that WT was the channel god was using. She laid it all out very convincingly, all of her evidence. Then, she asked me what I though. In a way, I still don't know what she really was asking me for....maybe to give her some nugget of godly wisdom that would 'turn her around'...or perhaps some validation (I was always the 'young people' elder...know what i mean?). In the end, it came out that she was sharing this information with others...many others...and I dimed her out. I caused her a lot of heartache, I'm sure. At this point, though, I was 'all in'.
But remember this: in your congregations, there are elders who are aware. They DO NOT believe. They are scared...and stressed out...and worried that someone might find out their horrible secret. They've learned through trial, error, and observing from the eye of the storm, that you can't trust ANYBODY in that org. NO ONE. Don't be fooled. They will turn on you viciously...in an instant...because they love you. And for that reason, combined with the fact that they feel they are following orders from GOD, they will do very mean and ugly things...with a vim and vigor that surrounds someone who is SURE they are righteous. So, these elders never come out. They're entire lives are built around this religion. All their friends and many relatives. Their wives and children are rooted. They've avoided ANY secular foundation and security: there's no 'safety raft' waiting overboard. I remember thinking that, if I stayed in the org, I was going to really go places. BIG places, according to the org. Did I really want to leave this? Understand, this is AFTER I knew it was all bullshit...and I still felt this little pull of 'status' and 'position'. It demonstrated a weakness in me which had been bred by an organization that rewards obedience with 'prominence'. How awful it must be for the women who slave away in that mess...some of them leaders by NATURE, all of them human beings with the natural urge to be seen and heard and felt and listened to. They have ZERO prospects in the org....other than pioneer...or marrying some brother on the come up. It's sick...the demeaning of a human spirit. It's a damn shame.
But you who are still in, pay attention (if you can) to the talks the elders give. Some of them are free inside...and if you listen closely, you may even hear it. They'll let bits of themselves bleed into their parts. It may just be a little spark...but you'll hear it...every so often.
And those folks at Brooklyn KNOW it. Some of the elders/ex-elders here will testify to all of the letters we get when the C.O. visits and has his meetings with the elders. They are very paranoid about apostasy...and will actually appeal to any brothers feeling apostate feelings to turn themselves in. I remember back in 2004 or so, they sent out a part with the C.O. for meetings with the elders: it basically was begging ANY elder who had looked at pornography to just confess. Right away. They KNEW it was an issue. They harped on this over and over for a while after that...but soon, at least in my area, this focus was replaced with 'apostasy'.
At this point, Im rambling. So much I've wanted to say in this forum for so long. But rambles are just rambles...so I'll hush up now. ;) -
36
Walk Away
by breakfast of champions inno, not the joe walsh song.
one of our last co visits, he was railing on the apostates who can't just shut up and be quiet.
rabble rousers.
-
-
Unlearn
In high school I had a teacher who handled the 'Debate Club'. This was a debate team who would debate each other and eventually other schools...for sport. It was great. Being raised a JW, my parents would only let me be in the class, but never officially 'on the team'. I always hated that: I think I wouldve been good.
Anyways, the teacher used to always state the major law of a good 'moral' debator:
'Always let your opponent retreat with his dignity.'And THAT is why JW's are a brutal bunch...a virtual T-Rex in sheep's clothing.
'You can leave if you want...but you better look pathetic doing it.
Quitter.' -
105
I've lurked a long time: JW's produce some of the most paranoid humans
by Unlearn ini'll keep this brief for now.. long time lurker (4 years or so).. born-in, elder, used on district level (last talk i gave before i left was the baptisimal talk), and lots of hard time put in...before i finally made the move to split.
it's a long stoy, much like many of yours...but with it's own little interesting twists.
more details in the future, perhaps.. as i said, ive lurked here for a while.. its funny: for a long time i'd only come on late at night.
-
-
Unlearn
Thanks again for the continuing 'welcomes'. Makes me feel like this was the right thing to do. :)
@ ABibleStudent - getting my wife out was tricky. So many compromising details to who I am here...and I'm not quite ready to go into all of them...but I am so glad she came out.
She always knew how I felt about the 'science'. She tried not to think about the fact that I was in the 'truth' and yet believed in evolution, that much of the Bible is myth, that Jesus Christ (the divine story) is one that's been passed down in various cultures (1st century Chirstian apologists even admitted it: blamed it on 'Satan'), & that I was recklessly pro-gay, pro-choice, and basically pro-human being. Funny thing is that she was the exact same way...VERY independent woman, but she suppressed it to conform to the cult.
I remember the first 'blunder I made': I accidentally left THIS SITE on my computer when I went to a meeting: my wife didn't feel well that evening. I came home after leaving a particularly petty, back-biting elders meeting, to my wife standing in the bedroom, with a deathly look on her face and my computer open on the bed. 'What is this?' she asked. This was early on, and I was still terrified of my house of cards falling down. So, I lied. I told her I was doing research...or some other bullshit like that. Since then, I've apologized to my wife about this, and she totally understands why I did it. But, it was a big notch in my process of leaving: lying to my wife about reading something really stuck with me. Who creates that type of fear between family?
I read something on this site back then that advised being patient and slowly trying to win your family. So, what began for me was a year long act of sorts...gradually bringing things to my wifes attention. Using every incident I could to plant seeds and steal other ones. The music we listen to, the things we read...our 'heroes' in the secular world are all very revolutionary, rebellious people. So, I had a lot going for me...including other details that I won't go into now: im so sorry. Just protecting my name.
I remember showing her that the cross information in the appendix of the NWT was not accurate...and how they had taken many experts quotes out of context in that information...as well as in the defense of their bible translation. The lack of transparency struck her as odd at first. More and more, she saw it for what it was: deception.
Things like Holidays had never been a problem for me: typically they aren't for born-ins. You don't really miss what you never knew. My wife, though, was not born-in. When I began to really break down the absurdity of not celebrating holidays as well as Birthdays, this was powerful. I showed her the 'Pinata' article in the Awake, where the brothers basically state that it would be unreasonable and improper for anyone to look down on a brother who used a pinata today, since he clearly would not be using it in any way similar to the pagan ways it was used eons ago. Reason! So, why not every holiday?
Once the evidence was overwhelming, it all started to fall apart for her. Add to the fact that the WTBS really supplies you with all the ammunition you need to leave 'mentally': you're just to hynotized by your ego to really see it. Once the spell is broken, their very teachings are glaringly strange, rigid, and mean-spirited. Their pet phrases and general culture scream CULT, and my wife saw it plainly after the cracks in the armor begin to form. This gradual chipping away at her 'foundations' eventually caused her to topple over...right into my arms, where I scooped her up and ran like hell. ;)
As far as other family, well...I'll perhaps discuss this in the future.
@ MrDarkKnight - yep, I totally can relate.
I was appointed rather young by some standards...and served for a certain amount of years...not a ton, but enough to be 'trusted' by several heavies and used in more visible ways. So I had this youth...and this natural desire to DO something...to be remembered. To be great. These are natural, dare-I-say 'healthy' ambitions. JW's demonize them, of course. The group needs only one 'head', which is a select club...and you ain't in it.
It's here that I have to pull a lot of words...because I'm still in a position where I'm guarding who I am...but it was very difficult to pretend to be 'conservative' in all aspects of my life. I'll just stop there. I'm getting to a point soon where it won't matter anymore...and I'll be recklessly transparent about everything.
For now, lets just say Im glad I got out before I was an old man.
That would've sucked. -
105
I've lurked a long time: JW's produce some of the most paranoid humans
by Unlearn ini'll keep this brief for now.. long time lurker (4 years or so).. born-in, elder, used on district level (last talk i gave before i left was the baptisimal talk), and lots of hard time put in...before i finally made the move to split.
it's a long stoy, much like many of yours...but with it's own little interesting twists.
more details in the future, perhaps.. as i said, ive lurked here for a while.. its funny: for a long time i'd only come on late at night.
-
-
Unlearn
Thanks again, folks.
@ Spectre -
Well, there were always little things...the type of rogue illogical 'facts' that JW's parade as Satanically suppressed 'truth'. Excuse any misspelled words or grammatical errors I may commit: when I start typing it's very 'in the moment'. ;)
Ever since I was a kid, these 'logical ideas' would linger in my head a bit longer that other JW kids...definitely longer than my parents would like.Still, I wholeheartedly embraced these things and immersed myself in them...which is the way you make your doubts kind of 'go away'...at least for a while.Theres a reason they like to keep their flocks busy non-stop. I remember when I was about 12 or 13 years old saying to my Dad that the reason that we were told not to read certain things or watch certain things or listen to certain people is because it seemed that, if we did, after a while we might believe them. A steady diet of these things would convince us that they were valid. And, if that was the case...couldn't the same be said of the constant admonition to drown our brains in WT lore. It's the same thing! Confine your brain in a cell with any ideology, and they likely will become 'friends'.
Anyhow, one thing that never, ever became 'settled' for me was the age of man. I'm no archaeologist, but it takes just a casual look at the evidence to KNOW that man is much older than 6,000 years. It's a fact. I know some Biblical apologists will argue and rationalize and this and that. I respect your right to see reality in your own way. But, it's a fact.
I always viewed myself as a fairly educated man. I prided myself on being rather 'forward' in my thinking...and it repulsed me over the years that I was indeed part of a 'fundamental' and conservative religion. Oh sure, JW's like to paint themselves as 'progressive' in some aspect...'revolutionaries' of truth, and all that. Bullshit. They're very 1950's conservative and 'right' leaning. This bummed me out to no end. I was a respected elder...who felt that gays were born that way, that use of natural drugs was a personal matter, who felt that men and women could be physically 'touchy-feely' friends. My wife knew this (she's as 'forward thinking' as I) and so did a couple of really close friends. Still, I hid what I was...which, coincidentally, is further proof that their vaunted 'holy spirit' is a manufactured feel-good scheme. I was used quite often in the district: id leave meetings for D.C. rehearsals, get in my car, and listen to 'debasing music' all the way home. I'd do other things that I won't go into just yet, (GOOD THINGS, trust me) but which would've shocked the most liberal brother.
'Holy Spirit' didn't expose me or boot me out. I got more privileges of service.
I stopped studying with my wife 2 years before we both made certain moves to break all ties. She would be so hurt...and cry to me. She'd beg me to study with her...to be the head of the family. She would say how she felt so deprived, because I was a service to so many in the cong. but not to her. I could not study with her, because I felt foolish. That shadow in my mind was growing: I could not focus seriously on myths.
I thought of my life and my future...and the future of others close to me, which I will not go into just yet...in an effort to retain some anonymity. There are so many things to do and be. Life is an amazing miracle. It's to be taken and clung to and relentlessly used! It's YOURS.
I will say too, that sadly 607 was an issue that I continuously had to sweep aside from my main view. Most JW's do this: it's a constant practice of 'distraction'. You develop the amazing ability of self-distraction: WT supplies you with the tools. There is always some counter-point manufactured by these cult leaders to do battle with any real 'truth' which myght stumble onto your radar. It's a very genius thing...interesting to see in action.
So, these things...among others were all swirling in my tired mind. I was literally just 'hanging in there'. I had begun researching this site and others sporadically. Sometimes I would be delighted to find that there were folks like me. Other times, I would be racked with guilt. I remember silently crying when listening to an interview with Ed Dunlap about his leaving the WT and then readinf Fred Franz's words about how WT kicked him out. I remember that night...cering downstairs. It was 2 am: my wife was upstairs asleep.
Then the push I needed came along. The thing that would make me finally call bull-shit. I still remember the first time I read it...and my shoch, anger, and strangely, relief...
'They had some sort of membership in the UNITED NATIONS?! WHAT?!' -
105
I've lurked a long time: JW's produce some of the most paranoid humans
by Unlearn ini'll keep this brief for now.. long time lurker (4 years or so).. born-in, elder, used on district level (last talk i gave before i left was the baptisimal talk), and lots of hard time put in...before i finally made the move to split.
it's a long stoy, much like many of yours...but with it's own little interesting twists.
more details in the future, perhaps.. as i said, ive lurked here for a while.. its funny: for a long time i'd only come on late at night.
-
-
Unlearn
Thanks so much guys...
Yes, through lurking, ive seen the debates. though im a new 'poster', i know the place well...everything from the wonderful posts of Barbara Anderson to the shameless hustle of the Kool-Aid-Man. ;)
My story is a bit weirder...there's some aspects of it that are different. But then, this is likely true of all here. I've been away for a bit of time now. My final year being mentally free but physically still in (in an eventually successful attempt to get my lovely wife out of the cult) was interesting...as I was being used very...um...'visibly'. The stress and melancholy was beyond words. Dealing with C.O.'s and D.O.'s and the branch...and at the same time fully understanding that 'power' is only inherent in what you give it to. These men have no real power. Human beings lay down for each other.
Sitting in meetings was horrible. The guilt and depression were rough. Having friends who would come to me to talk, for advice, for counsel, to admit wrongdoings. In that last year, more than once I told someone who had committed a 'sin' to go home and talk with their family, or a doctor, or a professional. Don't come to us. Don't beat yourself up. Let it go. That last year, I was the perfect elder to come to if you wanted a 'pass'.
But, as was stated, the layers keep coming off. I expect they will forever. When you're long-time born-in...it's a process that I believe never ends.
Cool thing is this: life is so much sweeter.
A Sunday morning. Goodness. A delicious 12-letter curse word at just the right time. Amazing. ;) -
105
I've lurked a long time: JW's produce some of the most paranoid humans
by Unlearn ini'll keep this brief for now.. long time lurker (4 years or so).. born-in, elder, used on district level (last talk i gave before i left was the baptisimal talk), and lots of hard time put in...before i finally made the move to split.
it's a long stoy, much like many of yours...but with it's own little interesting twists.
more details in the future, perhaps.. as i said, ive lurked here for a while.. its funny: for a long time i'd only come on late at night.
-
-
Unlearn
Hi...
I'll keep this brief for now.
Long time lurker (4 years or so).
Born-in, elder, used on district level (last talk i gave before i left was the baptisimal talk), and lots of hard time put in...before i finally made the move to split. It's a long stoy, much like many of yours...but with it's own little interesting twists. More details in the future, perhaps.As i said, ive lurked here for a while.
Its funny: for a long time i'd only come on late at night. Part of this was due to hiding from my wife (who fortunately is now also out of the org). Still, part of it was this very weird feeling of a more 'complete' secrecy, under the cover of night...hiding from myself? From jehovah? We feel more secure in the dark. I would keep my head downward in these sessions...in a physical attempt of sorts to 'hide' from Jehovah. As if by doing so, I would avoid eye-contact with his almighty gaze. I lived that way for years, while 'taking the lead' in the light of day.I resisted officially joining here for so long, wondering what would happen if the org got ahold of my identity. Thw way I was being used...well, it would be scandalous and affect a lot of people. What if the owners of this site were indeed in cahoots with Watchtower...and at some point, in one fell-swoop, dimed me out? Of course, this is irrational thinking: I was raised one of Jehovah's Witnesses, so it came easy.
I've had to unlearn much of what has been planted in me over a lifetime: thus, my username. It's an ongoing process...a continual 'weeding' of sorts...and these 'weeds' have gotten all tangled in among the roots of things that I must protect and preserve.
But, my life is mine.
It's an amazing gift, and it's mine. I control it! I worship myself and my dreams and my ideas...and I reserve the right to change my mind about everything...anytime I'd like. And the beautiful and glorious logic that was the shadow in my head, always ignored...it's been allowed to run free, and indulge itself in all sorts of nasty and sacreligious ideas.
Did I say this would be brief?
I'm sorry.
Nice to meet you all. Thanks to many of you for circling around my flickering flame and protecting it for years...even when you didn't know I was there.
You didn't even know you were aiding-&-abetting in the act of saving what was left of my life.
I love you.
-unlearn