Socrateswannabe

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Posts by Socrateswannabe

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  18

  Outcast Doctrines

  by Socrateswannabe in

  1. watchtower
  2. beliefs

  in a recent post about the watchtower’s claim that all animals were created as vegetarians, one commenter said that watchtower could no longer sustain this belief so they simply stopped talking about it.

  i began thinking about other wacky doctrines and statements by the borg that have faded away.

  i’ll offer two of them below, but the complete list must be longer than your arm.. 7000 year-long creative days: watchtower once taught that each of the creative days was 7,000 years in duration, hence the hype leading up to 1975. they believed that year marked 6,000 years since adam’s creation, and oh how nicely the 1,000-year reign would fit as the last piece of the puzzle, thus completing the final “day”.

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  Socrateswannabe

  In a recent post about the Watchtower’s claim that all animals were created as vegetarians, one commenter said that Watchtower could no longer sustain this belief so they simply stopped talking about it. I began thinking about other wacky doctrines and statements by the Borg that have faded away. I’ll offer two of them below, but the complete list must be longer than your arm.

  7000 year-long creative days: Watchtower once taught that each of the creative days was 7,000 years in duration, hence the hype leading up to 1975. They believed that year marked 6,000 years since Adam’s creation, and oh how nicely the 1,000-year reign would fit as the last piece of the puzzle, thus completing the final “day”. Watchtower usually ignores scientific and geologic evidence that doesn’t support their claims but in this case, they backed off. In recent years, the creative days have been described in Watchtower literature as periods of time of unknown length.
  

  “This generation”: While it was still feasible for any of Watchtower’s tortured "generation” formulas to work in connection with 1914, it was a hot topic in their literature. When it became obvious that the formula no longer worked, Watchtower came up with the most wackadoodle doctrine in memory, the “overlapping generations”. When he presented this in a video, David Splane seemed smug and self-satisfied with the teaching, and obviously the GB believed the R&F would swallow whole this transparent form of misdirection. I remember one or two JW’s talking about it briefly after the video and the subsequent Watchtower study article, and I seem to remember them giving it the stock JW response to all new light, “Of course, now it makes perfect sense!” But since then, I don’t recall any JW speaking of overlapping generations, or attempting to teach it from the stage or on a bible study. Discussion of the all-important generation doctrine has all but disappeared.
  

  For an organization that prides itself in accepting “new light” when it is revealed to them, dropping once key doctrines without an apology or explanation seems like the height of cowardice. Will you add your own outcast doctrines to the list?
  
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  25

  Sexual Morality In The Old Testament Differs From That In The New Testament

  by AlanF in

  1. watchtower
  2. bible

  conservative christians like the jehovah's witnesses often claim that, like the new testament, the old testament forbids all sexual relations outside marriage, including relations between unmarried people.

  that is not quite true.

  to see that patriarchal and israelite culture adhered to a different standard, we must first understand just how the old testament treats marriage, sexuality and related items.. the old testament view of women as property.

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  Socrateswannabe

  The OP was made long before I knew this forum existed, so thanks krismalone, for resurrecting this excellent thread.
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  39

  Publisher ID - I Saw It In Person & It Was Terrifying!

  by thedepressedsoul in

  1. watchtower
  2. beliefs

  i'd like to start off this post by saying, we all know that the wt loves control.

  it's clear by their history, their wt's, the elder arrangement and so on.

  however, after witnessing and using the publish id program in person, it takes this need for control to a whole new level & it was scary.. if you've ever seen builder assist (the website program used for ldc volunteers) or the metro program, it actually looks pretty similar to that.

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  Socrateswannabe

  Stillin, the congregation responsible for the DFing action retains the committee's notes indefinitely. The congregation sends a highly condensed version of their notes to the Branch (they fill out a WTS form), which, I'm assuming, is also kept by them indefinitely. No information is sent to the Branch when a person is reproved, even if it involves an announcement.
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  39

  Publisher ID - I Saw It In Person & It Was Terrifying!

  by thedepressedsoul in

  1. watchtower
  2. beliefs

  i'd like to start off this post by saying, we all know that the wt loves control.

  it's clear by their history, their wt's, the elder arrangement and so on.

  however, after witnessing and using the publish id program in person, it takes this need for control to a whole new level & it was scary.. if you've ever seen builder assist (the website program used for ldc volunteers) or the metro program, it actually looks pretty similar to that.

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  Socrateswannabe

  Hello everyone,

  As a congregation secretary of about 20 years running (PIMO), I’m certain that “Joe or Jane Publisher” has little to worry about respecting their data. Congregations do not routinely provide an individual’s data to the Org. The Org doesn’t know your birth date, your baptism date, your publisher status, or your field service stats. In fact, as far as I know, it doesn’t know (or care) that Joe or Jane Publisher exists, other than as a number (your secretary reports the sums for the congregation, including the number of active publishers).

  The exception to this is when a publisher “reaches out” for special privileges, such as:
  

  Regular pioneer

  Ministerial servant

  Elder

  Temporary or permanent Bethel service

  Special Metropolitan Public Witnessing

  School for Kingdom Evangelizers

  LDC

  Etc., etc.

  In addition, you can show up on the Org’s radar (and thus have a file with data) if:
  

  You are disfellowshipped (though not if you are simply reproved)

  You write or call the Org, complaining about something or indicating skepticism regarding a JW belief. This will generate a letter or phone call to your congregation elders, along with a request for some of your data.

  In the past few years, the LDC has asked congregations for the addresses of all active publishers in their territory for the purpose of rearranging congregation boundaries, etc., but (at least in the US) they have never asked for publisher’s names. Each visit, the circuit overseer gets a list of active and inactive publishers in the congregation along with their contact information, and it is possible that this information is shared with the Org, but I doubt it. It looks to me that the Org, for liability purposes, wishes to know as few details as possible of the congregation, its members, and their activities.
  

  If you don’t want your data shared with the Org, my suggestion is to fly under the radar. Don’t request or accept any privileges and don’t create a kerfuffle, and you shouldn’t have anything to worry about.
  
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  17

  Whatever happened to them??

  by jeffory1 in

  1. jw
  2. friends

  just talking to someone recently about former co's in our area.

  it went as follows,,,,george cook,saw that he was now in princes congregation or should say the former prince.. brother gwaltney,,nw usa area now drives a school bus his wife sold cosmetics at a nordstrom.

  brother spangenberg had to leave co work as his wife was sick ,,went to low paying menial job.. brother ---- cant remember his name but he is now working a a waiter in a italian restaurant,,singing as requested by customers.

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  Socrateswannabe

  Jeffory1, if these guys had any time in the circuit work at all and they are now working menial jobs for a living, then they are morons or very poor money managers. If you think about how much money they can extort from each congregation they serve, every time they serve them, AND the fact that every freakin' expense they have in life is paid by somebody else, then by the time these guys hit 70, their mandatory retirement age, they should be far more set than you or I are likely to be at that age.
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  74

  The Watchtower's Real Crisis

  by JeffT in

  1. jw
  2. friends

  when discussing the watchtowers financial problems, i've generally been of the opinion that they probably are not in a real financial crisis.

  i've come to believe that money may be something of an issue, but its wrapped up in a much larger problem.

  this came to me this morning when reading about the annual meeting.. i think the society's leadership is just plain out of ideas.

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  Socrateswannabe

  Point taken, Cofty. Their videos are an investment only in the sense that it helps to mainstream the JW sect and attract new membership. They have to hope that those new members earned university educations before entering the sect and thus will be better contributors than the born-ins.
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  74

  The Watchtower's Real Crisis

  by JeffT in

  1. jw
  2. friends

  when discussing the watchtowers financial problems, i've generally been of the opinion that they probably are not in a real financial crisis.

  i've come to believe that money may be something of an issue, but its wrapped up in a much larger problem.

  this came to me this morning when reading about the annual meeting.. i think the society's leadership is just plain out of ideas.

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  Socrateswannabe

  As other large printing businesses have done, they have recognized that their business model must change. Printed publications, in all markets, have been shrinking for two decades. It makes sense for them to move toward digital delivery of their content. However, it requires a massive investment in infrastructure to do so. They are also dumping many, many millions into video production. For the Borg, this is a good investment. If you watch their content, you can see that the videos paint them almost as a mainstream, or at least as a charismatic-type religion, not as a nutter group.

  The problem that they have run into is that there is less perceived value to a video or a PDF document than there is for a printed publication. I would guess that the number of contributions that publishers receive in the door to door work is just about zero. That means their source of revenue is coming from their members only, not the public. Their own policies are creating a catch-22, though, since they discourage their members from education that would provide them with good paying jobs. And, speaking of good paying jobs, they discourage that too. Not much of an economic pool to drain for contributions, if you ask me.
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  29

  Relaxed rules toward oral sex?

  by Socrateswannabe in

  1. watchtower
  2. beliefs

  these people won't state anything definitively, but here's an excerpt from the study article entitled "making christian marriage a success", in the august, 2016 watchtower.

  it does make me wonder.. although the bible does not provide specific rules about the kinds and limits of love play that might be associated with natural, sexual intimacy, it mentions displays of affection.

  (song of solomon 1:2; 2:6) christian marriage partners should treat each other with tenderness.

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  Socrateswannabe

  These people won't state anything definitively, but here's an excerpt from the study article entitled "Making Christian Marriage a Success", in the August, 2016 Watchtower. It does make me wonder.

  Although the Bible does not provide specific rules about the kinds and limits of love play that might be associated with natural, sexual intimacy, it mentions displays of affection. (Song of Solomon 1:2; 2:6) Christian marriage partners should treat each other with tenderness. (Italics mine)

  Does this indicate a softening of their antiquated view of oral sex?
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  79

  WT Flip-Flops on Jesus’ Inspection… Was it in 1918 or 1919?... Did the WT PASS or FAIL?

  by Alfred in

  1. watchtower
  2. bible

  this is utterly ridiculous.... .

  the more i research this particular subject, the more flip-flops i uncover.

  it seems the fds cant even make up their minds regarding what happened in 1918 (or should i say 1919?).

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  Socrateswannabe

  I am impressed that ex-JWs know far more about JW doctrine than active JWs know. Well done!
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  16

  Argument for JDubs or any Fundi's

  by Socrateswannabe in

  1. watchtower
  2. beliefs

  jehovah's witnesses believe:.

  1. man was created in 4026 bce.

  2. a global flood occurred in 2370 bce.

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  Socrateswannabe

  Punkofnice: Although they now admit that earth is millions of years old, they still believe that man and other living things are only 6,000 years old. So I guess god made the earth, let it sit there for millions of years, and then finally decided to do something with it. I'm pretty sure these are valid dates in JW world.