"However, he [King Rehoboam] left the counsel of the older men with which they had advised him, and he began to take counsel with the young men that had grown up with him, who were the ones attending upon him. 9 And he went on to say to them: 'What is it that you are offering in counsel that we may reply to this people who have spoken to me, saying, "Make the yoke that your father put upon us lighter"?' 10 In turn the young men that had grown up with him spoke to him, saying: 'This is what you should say to this people who have spoken to you, saying, "Your father, for his part, made our yoke heavy, but, as for you, make it lighter upon us"; this is what you should speak to them, "My little finger itself will certainly be thicker than my father's hips. 11 And now my father, for his part, loaded upon you a heavy yoke; but I, for my part, shall add to your yoke. My father, for his part, chastised you with whips, but I, for my part, shall chastise you with scourges."' ... 18 Subsequently King Rehoboam sent Adoram, who was over those conscripted for forced labor, but all Israel pelted him with stones, so that he died. And King Rehoboam himself managed to get up into the chariot to flee to Jerusalem. 19 And the Israelites kept up their revolt against the house of David down to this day." (1 Kings 12:8-11, 18 & 19; NWT)
I think this is a great lesson in what happens when those in authority push people too far. Instead of understanding the people's concerns about how they had been treated by his father, Rehoboam made life even harder for them. If he had acted wisely and sort to lighten the load of the people he would probably not have had such opposition. New members of the GB could lighten the load of JWs by 'readjusting' their predecessors' laws on shunning. I think there was a time when it was only spiritual fellowship that was withdrawn from those who were disfellowshipped/disassociated. That was a more reasonable position. When you seek to interfere with family relationships by encouraging total ostracism you should expect some very strong feelings coming your way.
"For this is what Jehovah of armies has said, 'Following after [the] glory he has sent me to the nations that were despoiling you people; FOR HE THAT IS TOUCHING YOU IS TOUCHING MY EYEBALL.'" (Zechariah 2:7-8; NWT)
Posts by JWB
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2To Whom It May Concern: Avoid The Spirit Of Rehoboam
by JWB in"however, he [king rehoboam] left the counsel of the older men with which they had advised him, and he began to take counsel with the young men that had grown up with him, who were the ones attending upon him.
9 and he went on to say to them: 'what is it that you are offering in counsel that we may reply to this people who have spoken to me, saying, "make the yoke that your father put upon us lighter"?
' 10 in turn the young men that had grown up with him spoke to him, saying: 'this is what you should say to this people who have spoken to you, saying, "your father, for his part, made our yoke heavy, but, as for you, make it lighter upon us"; this is what you should speak to them, "my little finger itself will certainly be thicker than my father's hips.
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JWB
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More anti-apostate rhetoric from the Watchtower - are they running scared?
by cedars inyes, the may 15th watchtower is now available for download from jw.org.. the final study article, on page 26, directs another salvo at apostates - and warns witnesses not to try arguing with them on the internet:.
indeed, we ought to move as far away from wrongdoing as possible and not see how close we can get to it without being overcome by sin.
for instance, we need to guard against succumbing to apostasy, a sin that would make us unfit to glorify god.
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JWB
Marvin, this is what happens when Mother (the WTS) makes her children (JWs) so dependent upon her that her children's emotional growth is stunted. The children cannot cope when Mother is not around to protect them. Likewise, when spiritual babes are not encouraged to attain to the "measure of stature that belongs to the fullness of the Christ" (Ephesians 4:13), they won't be able to defend their beliefs very well. Christians should be confident in defending their own faith, not hiding behind publications. Did Jesus run away from the arch-apostate the Devil? No, he confidently defended his own position and refuted his enemy's arguments.
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Letter to the Writing Department from Barbara Anderson
by Dogpatch ini thought i knew you.
an open letter from barbara anderson to watch towers writing department.
in 1517, martin luther wrote in a letter to archbishop albert of mainz: you must graciously forgive that i, that scum of the earth, am so bold as to dare to address a letter to you.. yes, i know, you think of me as scum, just like mainz believed of luther, wondering how i dare write you a letter, someone jehovahs witnesses disfellowshipped back in 2002. i was accused of being an unrepentant sinner and condemned for causing divisions, then labeled apostate because i spoke out publicly on nbcs dateline tv program aboutthe child sexual abuse policies that protected pedophiles policies that you helped formulate.
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JWB
Thanks for posting this letter. Barbara has shown great restraint, despite the fact that she is being deprived of rightful family contact. Her dignity is worthy of respect. My message to the WTS leaders who create these sorts of hurtful situations is "shame on you". Where is your humanity? Really, do you think that this is the sort of thing that Jesus would condone? Using a position of trust and authority to create ecclesiastical laws that can result in a situation where a grandchild suffers the loss of contact with grandparents on account of religious belief is highly dishonourable of you in my opinion.
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Latest Watchtower page 30... They have some nerve to put this!
by TimothyT inone thing that i have always noticed even when i was a jw is that the jw org has lots and lots and lots of rules for allsorts of stupid petty rules which make no difference.
when you read the bible you see how they are clearly in the wrong here and are acting like the pharisees themselves, who imposed so much pressure on others to conform to the law.
am i missing something here!?!?
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JWB
Yes, those Pharisees had an awful lot to say about what others should be doing!
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More anti-apostate rhetoric from the Watchtower - are they running scared?
by cedars inyes, the may 15th watchtower is now available for download from jw.org.. the final study article, on page 26, directs another salvo at apostates - and warns witnesses not to try arguing with them on the internet:.
indeed, we ought to move as far away from wrongdoing as possible and not see how close we can get to it without being overcome by sin.
for instance, we need to guard against succumbing to apostasy, a sin that would make us unfit to glorify god.
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JWB
"Consider the example of the Pharisees and scribes of Jesus' day. When anyone—even a fellow Pharisee—expressed an opinion that differed from that of these proud individuals, they resorted to name-calling and derogatory remarks. (John 7:45-52) Jesus was different. He empathized with others when they expressed themselves to him.—Matthew 20:29-34; Mark 5:25-34." (Watch. 2008, 1 February, page 20, "Managing Conflicts")
Cedars, thanks for bringing this article to our attention.
Here are some of my own thoughts.
The GB thinks it is the representative of a group that has ALREADY been declared "faithful and discreet", a group that they believe has been put in charge of ALL the Master's belongings since around 1918. As representatives of Christ in this role, even though they are still on earth, they must consider themselves to have already "begun ruling" over the 'household' of JWs (This reminded me of 1 Corinthians 4:8). So, they wouldn't consider themselves to be still in position of simply 'serving food'. Maybe this is why they seem to feel they can expect the 'household' to be obedient to their every command.
On the one hand they tell JWs "be in subjection to the superior authorities" (Romans 13:1-4), that is national governments, yet I see they have opposed the "superior authorities" in Australia by ignoring the very reasonable requirement to have criminal record background checks. It seems they did not feel the scriptural warning "those who have taken a stand against [the superior authorities] will receive judgment to themselves".
Isaiah 5:20 - The next verse has this to say:
"Woe to THOSE WHO ARE WISE IN THEIR OWN EYES and clever in their own sight!" (Isaiah 5:21; NASB)
Matthew 7:6 - The previous verse has this to say:
"You hypocrite, FIRST TAKE THE LOG OUT OF YOUR OWN EYE, and then you will see clearly how to take the speck out of your brother's eye" (Matthew 7:5; NWT)
Of course, they have the audacity to speak in the name (or authority) of Jehovah, wanting the respect that goes with being a prophet of God, yet they refuse to accept the accountability that goes with that role, using the "imperfect men" get-out-of-jail-free card. The question is quite simple: Is the GB and the Writing Department being directed by God's spirit or not? Yes or no? Does God's spirit ever get things wrong? If not, then how come there have been so many doctrinal changes over the history of the WTS? Especially since they have supposedly been approved representatives of Jesus Christ himself for the past hundred years or so. If they are not always led by God's spirit, then how would we know when those times might be? And if we find out that something said by them was a "word that Jehovah has not spoken", then would we be bad for maybe thinking that they had been presumptuous, or would we be showing disrespect for God by no longer 'standing in awe' (guwr) of them? (Deuteronomy 18:21-22)
Is it apostacy to question doctrine? Is loyalty to the interpretations of a self-perpetuating (un-elected) tiny group men more important than loyalty to the truth? If a Catholic began to question the Pope's ecclesiastical authority and started a Bible study with JWs, would the GB consider that person to be courageous? Would the Pope consider that person to be a "mentally diseased" heretic/apostate?
"Beloved ones, do not believe every inspired expression, but test the inspired expressions to see whether they originate with God, because many false prophets have gone forth into the world." (1 John 4:1; NWT)
"I know your deeds, and your labor and endurance, and that you cannot bear bad men, and that you put those to the test who say they are apostles, but they are not, and you found them liars." (Revelation 2:2; NWT) -
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Congregations of Jehovah's Witnesses in Scotland
by JWB incongregations of jehovah's witnesses in scotland.
aberdeen deevale.
aberfeldy.
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JWB
CONGREGATIONS OF JEHOVAH'S WITNESSES IN SCOTLAND
[A]
Aberdeen Deevale
Aberfeldy
Alloa
Alness
Annan
Arbroath
Ardrishaig
Auchinleck
Ayr
[B]
Blairgowrie
Bishopbriggs
Bucksburn
[C]
Campbeltown
Clermiston
Cowdenbeath
Craigton
Crieff
Cumbernauld North
Cumbernauld South
[D]
Dalbeattie
Dalkeith
Dalneigh
Dingwall
Dumbarton
Dumfries
Dundee Clepington
Dundee Glenesk
Dunfermline North
Dunfermline South
Dunoon
[E]
East Kilbride Calderwood
East Kilbride Stewartfield
Edinburgh Muirhouse
Elgin
[F]
Falkirk
Forfar
Forres
Fort William
Fraserburgh
[G]
Galashiels
Gilmerton
Glasgow Anniesland
Glasgow Cathcart
Glasgow Clydebank
Glasgow Kings Park
Glasgow Kirkintilloch
Glasgow Mandarin
Glasgow Polish
Glenrothes Central
Glenrothes North
Grangemouth
Greenock
[H]
Haddington
Hamilton
Huntly
[I]
Inverness Hilton
Irvine
[K]
Kelvin
Kemnay
Kilbirnie
Kilmarnock
Kingdom Hall (Kelso)
Kirkcaldy
Kirkcaldy Sign Language
Kirkwall
[L]
Lanark
Larkhall
Lerwick
Livingston Deans
Livingston Dedridge
[M]
Mayfield
Methil
Montrose
Morningside
Motherwell / Bellshill
Motherwell & Wishaw
Mount Florida
[O]
Oban
[P]
Paisley
Peebles
Penicuik
Perth Craigie
Perth North Muirton
Peterhead
Pollokshaws
Portobello
Portsoy
[R]
Renfrew
Riddrie
Rothesay
Rutherglen
[S]
Skye
Shotts
Slateford
St Andrews
Stirling
Stonehaven
Stornoway
Stranraer
[T]
Tain
Tranent
[W]
Waverley
Whitburn
Whitehills
Wick
CONGREGATIONS OF JEHOVAH'S WITNESSES IN ENGLAND AND WALES -
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I'm going to sit on top of my pyramid in the Pleiades eating my miracle wheat for 1,000 years while I tack into the wind....
by baltar447 in.
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JWB
Dear fellow, please come down off that pyramid! You should be on the Kingdom Boat. You should know that while tacking the wind back in the 1950's it was illuminated by some massive flashes of spiritual light, revealing the following:
"He [God] has also exposed the great Pyramid of Giza as being, not 'God’s stone witness' or 'the Bible in stone,' but a monument of demonism to glorify belief in immortality of the soul or 'survival after death.'" - Watchtower 1955 November 15, from page 697 ("Jehovah Is in His Holy Temple").
"Incidentally, Pleiades can no longer be considered the center of the universe and it would be unwise for us to try to fix God's throne as being at a particular spot in the universe. Were we to think of the Pleiades as his throne we might improperly view with special veneration that cluster of stars." - Watchtower 1953 November 15, from page 703 ("Questions From Readers")
"Brother Russell was interested in anything related to the Scriptural prediction that the desert would blossom as a rose and the earth yield her increase. So, when the public press reported a new and unusual strain of wheat, called 'Miracle Wheat' by its original grower, Brother Russell reported this in The Watchtower, along with a government report on it. Some Watchtower readers contacted the grower, who was in no way connected with the Watchtower Society, and purchased some of the wheat. When theirs produced seed they offered it as a contribution to the Society. The original grower sold the seed at $1.25 a pound, so they suggested their contribution be priced at $1.00, and all the money received be given to the Society. The Society made no claim for the wheat on its own knowledge, though it won several State Fair grand prizes before it wore itself out. Brother Russell neither named it nor profited from it; the money went as a donation into Christian missionary work. When others criticized this sale, all who had contributed were told that if they were dissatisfied their money would be returned, and the money was held for a year for this purpose. Not a single person requested it back. The only critics were those who had no real knowledge of the matter, which was purely a donation sale for the benefit of the Society--as open and aboveboard as a church cake sale." - Watchtower 1953 May 15, from page 319 ("Questions From Readers") -
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Rick Fearon should apologise for accusing faders of being cowards
by cedars ini hate doing this type of thread.
none of us are perfect, least of all myself, and i would rather focus any criticism on the watch tower society for damaging people's lives.
however, in the short period since i've been a member of this forum i've noticed one member in particular deteriorate in his behaviour into the type of individual who threatens to undermine the credibility of the entire website.
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JWB
All warfare is based on deception. Hence, when we are able to attack, we must seem unable; when using our forces, we must appear inactive; when we are near, we must make the enemy believe we are far away; when far away, we must make him believe we are near. - Sun Tsu, "The Art of War"
There may be good reasons why some are remaining 'camouflaged'. Once you reveal your identity and position there are certain things you may not be able to do to help others. To effectively run out waving your arms saying "Look here! Look here!" may not be the best strategy. Wisdom is a quality that should not be overlooked. -
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Blondie's Comments You Will Not Hear At The 02-12-2012 WT Study (GUIDED HOLY SPIRIT)
by blondie ingods spirit?.
holy spirit.
the holy spirit is?
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JWB
Thanks Blonde for that very thoughtful look at the Watchtower study article.
Here are some of my own comments.
Who needs a compass when you can just "tack in the wind"? =;-)
However, it may have seemed to some as though that path has not always gone straight forward. At times explanations given by Jehovah's visible organization have shown adjustments, seemingly to previous points of view. But this has not actually been the case. This might be compared to what is known in navigational circles as 'tacking.' By maneuvering the sails the sailors can cause a ship to go from right to left, back and forth, but all the time making progress toward their destination in spite of contrary winds. And that goal in view for Jehovah's servants is the 'new heavens and a new earth' of God's promise.—2 Pet. 3:13. (Paragraph 2, page 27 of the 1 December 1981 Watchtower article "The Path of the Righteous Does Keep Getting Brighter")
I'd like to ask these questions: "What was the source of those 'contrary winds'?", "Why was the organizational boat being 'tossed about as by waves and carried hither and thither'?" (See Ephesians 4:14)
On the basis of this faith in God and in his provision for salvation, have you dedicated yourself unreservedly to God to do his will henceforth as he reveals it to you through Jesus Christ and through the Bible *under the enlightening power of the holy spirit? (Second baptism vow pre-1985, from "Baptizing Follows Discipling", 1 May 1973 Watchtower; emphasis mine)
*Note: NOT 'under the enlightening power of Jehovah's spirit-directed organization'! -
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JWB
Sorry, I made a mistake in starting this new thread and got 'ROM' as a title with an empty post!
This is to inform, from 'the horses mouth' so to speak anyone who has come across the rumor that Ray Franz messed with the text of Spanish and other foreign language publications.
RUMORS ABOUT RAYMOND FRANZ
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One rumor that circulated widely, in fact internationally, was that these three men (Vázquez, Sánchez and Kuilan), all of whom worked in the Spanish Translation Department, were deliberately making changes in material when translating and that I knew of this and had condoned it. (In French-speaking countries the rumor was adjusted to apply to French translation work.) René’s comments on this were:
That is ridiculous. It would have been impossible to do. There were no changes made and that never came into our minds. No one ever accused us of that. Everything translated had to go through about five different persons for checking, Fabio Silva
being the last one to read it. In translating it was always necessary to strive to be faithful to the original idea. [32]
Probably the most vicious rumor, passed on as "truth" by elders and others in various parts of this country, was that there was homosexuality being practiced among the "apostates." Where such a blatant lie originated is difficult to imagine. The only explanation I can think of is that, about a year before the inquisition tactics began, an organizational member in a position of considerable responsibility had been accused of homosexual tendencies. The Governing Body handled the case and endeavored to keep the matter quiet. Nonetheless, it seems that some talk did circulate. In the rumor mills this man’s actions were now transferred over to the "apostates." This was easy to do since spreaders of rumors are seldom concerned about facts. I can think of no other possible explanation.
Why would people priding themselves on their high Christian principles pass on such vicious rumors when they had absolutely nothing but gossip on which to base them? I believe that in many cases it was simply because many felt a need somehow to justify in their own minds and hearts what had happened. They had to have reasons other than the true ones to explain why such summary and harsh actions were taken against people with unblemished records, people whom even their closest associates knew to be peaceful, unaggressive persons. To see the ugly label of "apostate" suddenly placed on these people required something more than the facts of the matter provided. Without such, those who knew these people, and others who heard of them, would have been obliged to face up to the possibility that the organization they viewed as God’s sole channel of communication and guidance on earth was perhaps not what they thought it to be. For many this was to think the unthinkable. It would severely disturb their feeling of security, a security that rests largely (far more so than most would acknowledge) on their unquestioning reliance on a human organization.
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[32] Not only was everything checked by a number of different persons in Brooklyn, but a large percentage of Branch Office personnel in Spanish-speaking countries know English and read the publications in both languages. Had such charge of deliberate alteration been true, it would have been quickly reported. To think otherwise simply betrays an ignorance of the facts or a lack of concern for facts on the part of those originating and spreading the rumors.
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RUMORS ABOUT RAYMOND FRANZ,
Crisis of Conscience, from pages 322 & 323