Oh, yes, Jesus obviously didn't appreciate the name 'Jehovah' (and therefore could not have witnessed properly about him?)! He always addressed God as 'heavenly father'.
Posts by JWB
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10According to today's JW standards, would Jesus be considered an apostate or opposer?
by I_love_Jeff inwhat rules in the elder's manual would jesus be charged with if he were here today?
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According to today's JW standards, would Jesus be considered an apostate or opposer?
by I_love_Jeff inwhat rules in the elder's manual would jesus be charged with if he were here today?
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JWB
I don't know about Jesus, but what about the Christians?
"But they have heard it rumored about *you that you have been teaching all the Jews among the nations an apostasy from Moses, telling them neither to circumcise their children nor to walk in the [solemn] customs." - Acts 21:21 (NWT); *Christians
It seems the Christians left off at least some teachings "peculiar to the beliefs of Jehovah's Witnesses" (ie the Jewish nation - Isaiah 43:10). -
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Who are the "glorious ones"?
by JWB inwho are the "glorious ones"?.
* 'doxas' (greek strongs #1391) 'glories'/'glorious beings' (the new greek english interlinear new testament), or 'angels'.. .
daring, self-willed, they do not tremble at *glorious ones but speak abusively, whereas angels, although they are greater in strength and power, do not bring against them an accusation in abusive terms, [not doing so] out of respect for jehovah.
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JWB
Bobcat, et al, thanks for your input. And what an interesting post from Leolaia. Blondie has pretty much shown the position of the WTS in its hammering home to the R&F that the 'glorious ones' are the elders; I've added a few references of my own below. Goodness knows how many times the case of what happened to the opposers of Moses has been brought up to scare the R&F into submission!
DOXAS
www.blueletterbible.org/lang/lexicon/lexicon.cfm?Strongs=G1391&t=NASB
2 PETER 2:10
www.blueletterbible.org/Bible.cfm?b=2Pe&c=2&v=10&t=NASB#conc/10
JUDE 1:8
www.blueletterbible.org/Bible.cfm?b=Jud&c=1&v=8&t=NASB#conc/8
ALL OCCURRENCES
I've found no references in connection with 'doxas' to elders or apostles being referred to as "glorious ones".
www.blueletterbible.org/lang/lexicon/lexicon.cfm?Strongs=G1391&t=NASB
The only glory applicable to Christians is to all:
"The glory [doxas] which You have given Me I have given to them, that they may be one just as We are one." - John 17:22 (NASB)
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WTS VIEW OF "GLORIOUS ONES"
"[2 Peter] 2:10-13. While 'glorious ones,' that is, Christian elders, have faults and may err at times, we must not speak abusively of them.--Heb. 13:7, 17." - Watch. 15 Nov 2008, page 22, paragraph 9 ("Highlights From the Letters of James and of Peter")
"Since even the most loyal and devoted Christians are imperfect, when an appointed servant makes a mistake, let us continue to do 'all things free from murmurings.' (Philippians 2:14) How sad it would be if we were to follow the poor example of a few in the first-century Christian congregation! According to the disciple Jude, false teachers of that day were 'disregarding lordship and speaking abusively of glorious ones.' Moreover, those wrongdoers were 'murmurers, complainers about their lot in life.' (Jude 8, 16) May we reject the path followed by murmuring complainers and fix our thoughts on the fine things that come to us through the 'faithful slave.' Let us appreciate the goodness of Jehovah’s organization and 'keep doing all things free from murmurings.' - Watch. 15 Jul 2006, pages 21-22, paragraph 12 ("Focus on the Goodness of Jehovah’s Organization") -
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Is there any evidence for the claim that CTR dismissed JFR from Bethel in early 1915?
by JWB inevidence for dismissal of joseph rutherford from bethel in 1915?.
i recently came across a claim, made somewhere on the internet, that charles russell had dismissed joseph rutherford from bethel in 1915:.
"joseph franklin rutherford (1861-1942): came from a large calvinist family; formerly a small-town lawyer in missouri; at least once appointed to serve as judge in a case; politically active in democratic politics.
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JWB
Leolaia, my apologies for the delay in responding to your post!
Thank you.
I will be viewing this video later.
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Who are the "glorious ones"?
by JWB inwho are the "glorious ones"?.
* 'doxas' (greek strongs #1391) 'glories'/'glorious beings' (the new greek english interlinear new testament), or 'angels'.. .
daring, self-willed, they do not tremble at *glorious ones but speak abusively, whereas angels, although they are greater in strength and power, do not bring against them an accusation in abusive terms, [not doing so] out of respect for jehovah.
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JWB
WHO ARE THE "GLORIOUS ONES"?
* 'doxas' (Greek Strongs #1391) 'glories'/'glorious beings' (The New Greek English Interlinear New Testament), or 'angels'.
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"especially, however, those who go on after flesh with the desire to defile [it] and who look down on lordship. Daring, self-willed, they do not tremble at *glorious ones but speak abusively, whereas angels, although they are greater in strength and power, do not bring against them an accusation in abusive terms, [not doing so] out of respect for Jehovah. But these [men], like unreasoning animals born naturally to be caught and destroyed, will, in the things of which they are ignorant and speak abusively, even suffer destruction in their own [course of] destruction," - 2 Peter 2:10-12 (NWT)
"and especially those who indulge the flesh in its corrupt desires and despise authority. Daring, self-willed, they do not tremble when they revile *angelic majesties, whereas angels who are greater in might and power do not bring a reviling judgment against them before the Lord. But these, like unreasoning animals, born as creatures of instinct to be captured and killed, reviling where they have no knowledge, will in the destruction of those creatures also be destroyed," - 2 Peter 2:10-12 (NASB)
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"In like manner, notwithstanding, these men, too, indulging in dreams, are defiling the flesh and disregarding lordship and speaking abusively of *glorious ones. But when Michael the archangel had a difference with the Devil and was disputing about Moses' body, he did not dare to bring a judgment against him in abusive terms, but said: 'May Jehovah rebuke you.' Yet these [men] are speaking abusively of all the things they really do not know; but all the things that they do understand naturally like the unreasoning animals, in these things they go on corrupting themselves," - Jude 8-10 (NWT)
"Yet in the same way these men, also by dreaming, defile the flesh, and reject authority, and revile *angelic majesties. But Michael the archangel, when he disputed with the devil and argued about the body of Moses, did not dare pronounce against him a railing judgment, but said, 'The Lord rebuke you!' But these men revile the things they do not understand; and the things which they know by instinct, like unreasoning animals, by these things they are destroyed," - Jude 8-10 (NASB)
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MY ANALYSIS
According to the context of both sections of scripture, a comparison is being made between the conduct of ungodly materialistic men and the conduct of angels. We have these men speaking badly about those things about which they do not really know (the heavenly realm), while living their lives by instinct like animals (the earthly realm). They do not respect 'lordship' (as represented by the angels). On the other hand the (good) angels are reported as not daring to revile either men or (bad) angels. When the scripture says that the angels do not bring an accusation against 'them, the 'them' is not "glorious ones", but ungodly materialistic men.
Thus, from my understanding, these scriptures do not support the belief in a class of people within the congregation who were considered to be 'glorious ones'. To believe such would be against what Jesus taught.
"They like the most prominent place at evening meals and the front seats in the synagogues, and the greetings in the marketplaces and to be called Rabbi by men. But you, do not you be called Rabbi, for one is your teacher, whereas all you are brothers. Moreover, do not call anyone your father on earth, for one is your Father, the heavenly One. Neither be called 'leaders,' for your Leader is one, the Christ. But the greatest one among you must be your minister. Whoever exalts himself will be humbled, and whoever humbles himself will be exalted." - Matthew 23:6-12 (NWT) -
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Is there any evidence for the claim that CTR dismissed JFR from Bethel in early 1915?
by JWB inevidence for dismissal of joseph rutherford from bethel in 1915?.
i recently came across a claim, made somewhere on the internet, that charles russell had dismissed joseph rutherford from bethel in 1915:.
"joseph franklin rutherford (1861-1942): came from a large calvinist family; formerly a small-town lawyer in missouri; at least once appointed to serve as judge in a case; politically active in democratic politics.
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JWB
EVIDENCE FOR DISMISSAL OF JOSEPH RUTHERFORD FROM BETHEL IN 1915?
I recently came across a claim, made somewhere on the Internet, that Charles Russell had dismissed Joseph Rutherford from Bethel in 1915:
"Joseph Franklin Rutherford (1861-1942): Came from a large Calvinist family; formerly a small-town lawyer in Missouri; at least once appointed to serve as judge in a case; politically active in Democratic politics. Custodian of Pastor Russell’s last will and testament. Apparently dismissed from Bethel in early 1915, lived in Monrovia near Los Angeles and worked as a lawyer for a department store in Los Angeles. Forceful in disposition and persuasive. Debated Rev. John H. Troy at First Baptist Church in Glendale, California, April 21-24, 1915."
I'm interested to know if this claim can be substantiated.
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Jehovah's victory in France!
by Kensho insomebody please explain this to me!.
last talk of the dc today,( i know everyone has already attended by now, i just put it off as long as possible) the bro.
read letter from gb about jah's stricking the jaw of the gov.
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JWB
I notice that the WTS is not declaring to 'the world' that Jah gave them a victory! Of course, the only hard evidence is that the victory was of a more earthly origin (the time and effort expended by various lawyers).
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Watchtower and Freemasonry
by mizpah2 inthanks for the information, .
today by jws themselves and by the general public at large.. the repelling opposition and from mainstream christendom stems from ideologies created most likely from the freemason theologies.. the theological idea that one should congregate in worship in a place that replicates king solomon's temple as a truer.
emulation of where people should worship god (yahweh) as apposed to typically designed churches.. the probable reason also why worshiping centers for the jws are called kingdom halls and not churches.. when j rutherford broke away more less from the ibsa to create the jw organization, the remaining ibsa still used freemason halls to .
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JWB
SOME MASONIC TERMS IN WTS PUBLICATIONS
General Information
The Freemason 'religion' focuses attention on the Temple of Solomon, its layout (including the two pillars 'Jachin' and 'Boaz') and the legend of Hiram Abif (identified as King Hiram of Tyre). Here are some relevant quotes:
"And he proceeded to set up the pillars belonging to the porch of the temple. So he set up the right-hand pillar and called its name Jachin, and then set up the left-hand pillar and called its name Boaz. And upon the top of the pillars there was lily work. And the work of the pillars was gradually completed." - 1 Kings 7:21-22 (NWT)
"Solomon conscripts laborers for the work of building the house of Jehovah, and King Hiram of Tyre cooperates by sending timbers and a gifted workman. 'In the fourth year of [Solomon’s] reign,' the building gets under way, and it is completed seven and a half years later, in 1027 B.C.E. (3:2) The temple itself is fronted by a large porch that towers 120 cubits (175 ft) [53.4 m] high. Two immense copper pillars, one named Jachin, meaning 'May [Jehovah] Firmly Establish,' and the other named Boaz, apparently meaning 'In Strength,' stand in front of the porch. (3:17) The house itself is comparatively small, being 60 cubits (87.5 ft) [26.7 m] long, 30 cubits (43.7 ft) [13.4 m] high, and 20 cubits (29.2 ft) [8.9 m] broad, but its walls and ceiling are overlaid with gold; its innermost room, the Most Holy, is itself elaborately decorated with gold. It also contains the two golden cherubs, one on each side of the room, whose wings stretch across and meet in the center." - All Scripture Inspired of God, page 80, paragraph 8 ("Bible Book Number 14-2 Chronicles")
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Make what you will of the following observations concerning just two terms used in freemasonry. It is provided simply for educational purposes.
I know that enquiries have been made concerning the possibility of CTR being a PENNSYLVANIAN freemason, with the result that there appears to be no evidence in support of that theory. However, he could easily have belonged to another lodge. One theory I've come across is that a record of freemason membership may reside in Ireland. Of course this is speculation. As far as Charles Taze Russell (CTR) being a freemason is concerned, I personally have not been satisfied with any supposed evidence for it, although I do think he was more than familiar with its teachings.
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"Grand Master"
(The NWT of Hosea, Zephaniah and Hosea was probably in preparation sometime during the years 1959-1960.)
"Ephraim caused offense to bitterness, and his deeds of bloodshed he leaves upon his own self, and his reproach *his grand master will repay to him." - Hosea 12:14 (NWT); *'DNYW (Hebrew) = 'lord of him' (same vowel pointing as that in Malachi 1:6).
"And I will give attention to everyone that is climbing upon the platform in that day, those who are filling the house of *their masters with violence and deception." - Zephaniah 1:9 (NWT); *'DNYHM (Hebrew) = 'lord of them'. NWT footnote reads "or, 'their grand master'".
"'A son, for his part, honors a father; and a servant, his grand master. So if I am a father, where is the honor to me? And if I am a grand master, where is the fear of me?’ Jehovah of armies has said to you, O priests who are despising my name." - Malachi 1:6 (NWT) - *'DNYW (Hebrew) = 'lord of him' (same vowel pointing as that in Hosea 12:14); **'DWNYM (Hebrew) = 'lords'.
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"Believe it, Satan is no mere figure of speech, no allegory. He is a person. He is the grand master of liars. He is the original murderer. (John 8:44) He is joined by other rebel spirits, demons. They constitute 'the world rulers of this darkness,' 'the wicked spirit forces in the heavenly places.'--Ephesians 6:12." - Awake! 22 Sep 1982, pages 8-9 ("What Can Be Done to Save the Earth?")
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"Great Architect Of The Universe"
"I tried to find the truth in various religious organizations but can now see that they did not have it. Then I became a member of Freemasonry in the belief that thereby I could fill the need of every human to worship a Supreme Being that some call the Great Architect of the Universe. The Bible identifies him as Jehovah in Psalm 83:18 and also at Isaiah 42:8, which says, 'I am Jehovah. That is my name; and to no one else shall I give my own glory, neither my praise to graven images.'" - 1971 Yearbook of JWs, pages 114-115 ("Country Reports")
"Despite the opinion of such men, God's own Word says that the design was received under inspiration by Moses from the great Architect of the universe, Jehovah God himself. (Ex. 25:9) Christ Jesus accepted this statement. More than five centuries after the exile, and therefore after the account is supposed to have been tampered with, Jesus had these same Scriptures in the form we now know them today and he said in his prayer to Jehovah, 'Your word is truth.' (John 17:17, NW) True Christians, then, can rely with confidence on the description of the tabernacle as it has been preserved for us." - Watch. 15 Nov 1956, page 685 ("Israel's Wonderful Way in Worship")
"As we gaze upon the eye-catching productions of the architects of the present and the past, we do well to dismiss from mind the petty vanity of men. Consider, rather, how marvelously the Great Architect of the universe implanted in men so great a variety of capabilities! It is not a case of simply piling stone on stone. No, there are other considerations—beauty, symmetry, that perfection of balance that must appear in the completed structure." - Awake! 22 May 1970, pages 21-22 ("Eye-catching Architecture--Ancient and Modern")
"That scientists can actually explore other planets hundreds of millions of miles away shows what can be done when people work together toward a single goal. Such achievements are also a credit to human ingenuity. Of course, space exploration--indeed, science as a whole--is only possible because of the consistent and totally reliable physical laws that govern the universe. These laws did not create themselves but were established by the Grand Architect of the universe, Jehovah God." - Awake! 9 Feb 2009, page 16 ("Mars Up Close") -
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What Proof Is There That Rutherford Was Responsible For The Pyramid Monument Near CTR's Grave?
by JWB inwhat proof is there that rutherford was responsible for the pyramid monument near ctr's grave?.
"charles taze russell died in 1916, the pyramid marker was installed in 1921 (5 years after his death), and the the masonic temple was built in the mid 1990s, these items have nothing to do with pastor russell's grave.
the masonic temple is not even on the cemetery grounds, it is a different property altogether.
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JWB
According to the 1919 Convention Report (CR):
"In the exact center of the Bethel lot will be erected diagonally the Pyramid Shape Monument as designed by Brother Bohnet, and accepted by Brother Russell as the most fitting emblem for an enduring monument on the Society's burial space."
Was the CR, and by extension Bohnet, lying that Russell had okayed the monument?
As we know, oral testimony is just as acceptable in law when establishing facts as written testimony. So, either the CR is stating a falsehood or it is not. I understand that modern Bible Students who have a profound respect for CTR will not wish to entertain the idea that he may have approved anything of an "extravagent" nature, yet he may have justified the expense of such a monument considering it "a most fitting emblem". I don't get the impression that CTR would reject using WTS money on something he considered to be promoting praise to the Lord, including a small monument depicting God's Great Stone Witness. I suppose it is just a matter of personal perspective. -
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"Watchtower" is "magic" to the Wiccans - Pagan
by Gayle inhttp://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/watchtower_(magic).
watchtower (magic) /firstheading bodycontent tagline from wikipedia, the free encyclopedia /tagline subtitle /subtitle jumpto jump to: navigation, search /jumpto bodycontent a watchtower is a spirit guardian of one of the four cardinal points in both ceremonial magic and the neopagan religion of wicca.
alternately, the watchtowers are the abodes of the guardians.
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JWB
Also don't forget the occult origins of the winged sun disc and the upward triangle/pyramid (representing the phallus), both featured in the early days of the WTS.