the watchtower states that the great tribulation.... will start when the united nations attacks babylon the great.
it appears individual states of the usa are starting to get that ball rolling right now.. .
with the world wide child sexual abuse cover-ups across the globe getting special attention from the media.. legislators across the usa seem to have lost the fear of getting the nod of disapproval of 'clergy', especially from the younger members.. law professor marci a. hamilton writes, "across the country, the movement for justice for child-sex-abuse victims is finding that conversations that used to begin with a discussion of the catholic bishops' opposition (and then often ended abruptly) are now started by a member's saying, "they don't deserve deference on this issue.
Yes blondie, I think the emphasis is on YOU, as in the first-century people he was speaking to. It seems that Jesus was quite sure his listeners would personally witness these events.
Strange how simple words and phrases somehow don't mean what they say! (http://www.jehovahs-witness.net/watchtower/beliefs/227175/1/When-this-means-that-you-means-someone-else-and-shortly-means-so-far-in-the-future-you-will-be-long-buried-and-forgotten)
Outlaw, so funny and yet sadly so true.
i had the chance to speak with a circuit overseer, he was not my circuit overseer and it was my chance to get the offical party line why the watchtower joined the united nations.. .
"are you a jehovah witness he asked me?
(theocratical warfare allows lies according to the gb!
What happened to not even touching the unclean thing?
Israelite representative to Babylonian authorities: "Although we consider your government to be quite beastly and of the devil, what with your worship of false gods and shouldn't really be having any dealings with you goyim, we still want to have indefinite access to your library for research purposes."
once we found out we were all witnesses, we all hugged.
now we just had to see if our kingdom hall was still standing.
when we came to the hall we had such a huge shock.. there were so many people there.
I've had a (very) quick scan of the story.
Do you know what? I can just about picture the WTS's video productions department getting the go ahead to create a drama series to compete with the likes of "Jethro" or the more recent "Revolution"! Why they could even get the JW who wrote this piece to be a consultant. I've just thought of a title for it:
"Armageddon Stories"
I for one would love to watch it as I quite like the fantasy/sci-fi genre.
the power of eight.
in the first paragraph on page 26 of the 15 june 2013 watchtower we read:.
"on wednesday morning, september 5, 2012, it was announced to the united states and canada bethel families that a new member had been added to the governing body of jehovahs witnesses.
THE POWER OF EIGHT
In the first paragraph on page 26 of the 15 June 2013 Watchtower we read:
"On Wednesday morning, September 5, 2012, it was announced to the United States and Canada Bethel families that a new member had been added to the Governing Body of Jehovah’s Witnesses. Effective September 1, 2012, Mark Sanderson began to serve in that capacity."
The article in which this appeared also gives us a 'family' photograph of all current members of the GB. Sitting in the front row are S F Herd, G L Losch and G H Pierce. Standing behind them are D H Splane, A Morris III, D M Sanderson, G W Jackson, and M S Lett. Readers are also given the reassurance that "all members of the Governing Body are anointed Christians".
I noted with interest that the addition of this eighth member came just before the first announcement of a new understanding of the identity of the "faithful and discreet slave" during the autumn annual general meeting of the Watch Tower Society. So does the addition at this time have any significance?
Well, just on a whim I decided to investigate the number eight! Was there some spiritual/biblical meaning attached to that number? You know, like six and seven supposedly representing imperfection and perfection respectively. What I did get by way of feedback was that eight is viewed by at least some people as having a biblical meaning of "re-birth" and that may be why male children were circumcised on the eight day (?!). Of course, when you do internet searches it can be rather a mixed bag in terms of what results you get. Among those results also were a bunch on numerology. Although I can't say I'm a believer in numerology, I did find it rather interesting what one numerologist wrote ;-)
"Some of the more recognizable traits of the 8 are drive, ambition, authority, efficiency, organization, management, discipline and control. The 8 is goal-oriented, focused, has good judgment, can discriminate and is practical, a realist. Its closest relative is the 1 as both numbers are powerful, have strong leadership skills, are unquestionably masculine and will not shy away from a confrontation. However, where the 1 lacks diplomatic skills and an understanding of human nature -- more typically the traits of the 2 -- the 8 has those abilities as well, which is perhaps the most important reason the 8 tends to do well in business and in authority roles (the military and law enforcement draw a lot of 8s)."
I couldn't help chuckling to myself! The mention of 8's closest relative 1 having traits of lacking diplomatic skills and an understanding of human nature made me think of Joseph Rutherford. But the supposed association of eight with "drive, ambition, authority, efficiency, organization, management, discipline and control" seems to sum up the more modern WTS quite well I thought.
I must stress that this post is a little tongue-in-cheek so please take it that way.
jw leaks has published the 17 page official transcript of the appearance by watchtower bible and tract society of australia and jehovah's witnesses before the "inquiry into the handling of child abuse by religious and other organisations" conducted on 11 april 2013 in victoria, australia.. http://jwleaks.org/australia/.
quote from rachel van witsen, legal counsel for watchtower bible and tract society of australia and jehovah's witnesses, in reply to who is responsible for reporting child abuse within the religion of jehovah's witnesses... .
ms van witsen at the moment, because there is no mandatory reporting for ministers of religion in victoria, then the victim, who has very often had their dignity removed, is then put in the drivers seat.. .
"Mr T. O’BRIEN — People are free to be Jehovah’s Witnesses, or if at any time they wish to discontinue for whatever reason, that is a personal choice. If the person simply decides to become inactive and no longer associate with Jehovah’s Witnesses, then they are just viewed as they were before they became one of Jehovah’s Witnesses. But if somebody is, what we refer to as being disfellowshipped, or if they disassociate themselves because of whatever reason — their activity, their disagreement with scripture or whatever the case — that puts them in a situation that the scripture has outlined where we would disassociate with them and they would come into the category of what we refer to as ‘disfellowshipped’ or ‘disassociated’. But they are free to believe whatever they like. If they want to challenge the teachings of Jehovah’s Witnesses, there are plenty who do. You only have to browse the internet to see that. People are free to express themselves against any religion or any organisation."
So, it looks like 'fading' is probably the best way to go. At least you will viewed only as a person of 'the world'. I assume that the shunning doctrine will not apply if you fall into this category - just make sure you don't bother them and they won't bother you!
background: my wife and i are inactive, we stopped attending in 2005. raised as jws, were pioneers, i was elder etc... .
our kids are in college, also inactive but are baptised.
my wife went back to college, getting her degree this month at age 48!
outsmartthesystem, what a great response. I think you covered things extremely well and identified the contents of the original letter to be tantamount to emotional blackmail. It is so sad that family relationships can be destroyed through the WTS's psychological programming. Unfortunately the mother of the letter, like so many JWs, equates leaving the organization with leaving God.
my wife and i were discussing this and thought of a few examples of words that the wt society changes meanings on in order to accomplish their own self serving agenda .
the term - generation - definition in webster's new world dictionary : " generation - a single stage or degree in the succession of natural descent ( father, son, and grandson are three generations ) .
the average period ( about thirty years ) between the birth of one generation and that of the next .
(See 15 June 2013 Watchtower)
headquarters - permanent address of the 'faithful and discreet slave' since 1919
"religion is a snare and a racket".
...ironically, today the wt is a bonafied religion..
"Pray to Jehovah that he may open your eyes to UNDERSTAND it".
Or something along these lines when you don't agree with the WTS interpretation of scripture regarding some New Truth(tm), even though you completely understand that the interpretation has no basis in Scripture (eg birthdays being bad because on the only two occasions mentioned in the Bible, something awful happened!).
so does this mean aawa is going to stop shunning?
are they themselves not guilty of shunning those who shun?
shunning can never be stopped no matter how bad you want it to.
Here is my two-pence worth:
From what I've seen the only way the WTS has ever really been forced to change is out of expediency. One example being of course the Bulgaria case which seemed to move them to stop disfellowshipping those choosing to have a blood transfusion. Although the Raymond Franz incident caused them some embarrassment, I don't think it really made much difference to the way they operated - neither did the UN involvement scandal either.
However, there are two areas I can think of where it is possible to weaken their grip. Firstly, in terms of possible future converts from among those who have never had WTS conditioning via a JW family background. Secondly, those with a JW background who have doubts about the WTS and are willing to hear what others have to say via the internet and even ignore some of what the GB command them to do. With regards to the first category, bad publicity for the WTS is I think the most effective as it will tend to make members of the public less receptive to the JW preaching. In the second category, the vast number of forums (such as this), blogs and other information sharing websites as well as videos freely available at such places as youtube provide a huge wall of resistance against the WTS.
I think the word 'education' is key here. Peaceful public protests may help to raise awareness in some cases, but I personally don't think picketing kingdom halls and assemblies is the answer - in fact I think they tend to reinforce in the minds of many JWs the bad image the WTS portrays concerning 'opposers' and 'apostates'. What Simon said about consumers is spot on; each JW is part of a collective whole that keeps the organization alive, 'the world' doesn't.
We have to be realistic when it comes to the WTS. Even if some criminal activity were discovered at HQ and heralded in the media, I think there would still be many JWs who would be crying "Lies! Lies!" or "Jehovah's organization is under attack from Satan and his cohorts!"
If the men in charge at the WTS can get away with it the 'end' could stretch for several more decades, so I don't believe the WTS is going to disappear overnight as many no doubt wish it would.
Having said all of this, I applaud any peaceful and sensible efforts to confront the beast that is the WTS and continually keep it on its toes!
me whom they have pierced .
blood flowed from our saviors' side when he was pierced:.
"but one of the soldiers pierced his side with a spear, and immediately blood and water came out...for these things were done that the scripture should be fulfilled...and again another scripture says, 'they shall look on him whom they pierced.
Some food for thought:
www.infidels.org/library/modern/james_still/gospel_john.html
("11. Doctrine of the Logos in Philo’s Writings":)
www.iep.utm.edu/philo/
