Posts by rubadubdub

64

What was YOUR wake-up call before you left the JW´s organization?

by Mr Fool in

what was your wake-up call(s) before you left the jw s organization?

.

rubadubdub

Mum, like you I was a lone JW in an "unbelieving" family from age 9-19. I grew up Pre-1975 and married an ex-Bethelite who began fading when our children were under two years old. Later, our two kids left the bOrg, one DF’d, the other DA’d. I was the last woman standing, and decades of cognitive dissonance was making me crazy. How was I supposed to love and live in subjection to my “apostate” hubby and listen to the brothers’ constant reminders that soooo many people (including my children) were going to die at Armageddon? I was just not going to shun my son once he left home, and I felt the noose of control tightening.

Of course, I knew the “overlapping generation” doctrine was a scam. That was my doctrinal last straw. When I first heard it, I thought, “That’s crap!” I guess I just wasn’t ready yet.

I had an out-patient hospitalization in early 2011 for severe depression. In May, something just snapped, “If one more person tells me my kids are going to die. . .” I was out by July 3 after the last day of my D.C. From the outside looking in, I knew I was in a cult. It took me a few months before I began my online research and learned TTAT.

I chose my family and my sanity over the WTB$, and guess what-- no more depression!

31

Effect of family life (me, wife and young boy) if I am df / da and wife zealous jw

by Daniel1555 in

jw
friends

i have a question and hope to hear some experiences of you who went or are going through this situation:.

actually for several reasons (blood policy, disfellowshipping policy and some more) my conscience is telling me quite strongly, that i should not anymore be a part of that organization.. my wife and even elders know about my doubts (except blood policy).

however i continue to join the meetings actually just to please my wife and to be together with our baby boy.

rubadubdub

I completely agree with AnnOMalley! Take things slowly, and don’t unnecessarily complicate things. My husband faded 30 years before I finally came to my senses! He continued to be involved in our JW social life until he was marked for playing volley ball too aggressively at a congregation picnic. (Large gatherings are a thing of the past now anyway!) He attended the Memorial yearly until I asked him to stop, because the kids were embarrassed that he fell asleep and snored.

I would say his biggest mistakes were becoming a workaholic, leaving me with too much responsibly regarding the kids and not doing the necessary research to deprogram himself or learn about Cult Mind Control. (When I left, his deprogramming began—no more throwing down the headship card!)

Please take into account how your wife may be feeling. Talk to her! Show her love. I felt totally betrayed when my husband left the organization. We had promised to raise our children in “The Truth” together. I felt like he left me holding the bag. That actually strengthened my resolve to stay strong and raise my children as JWs. Fortunately, they left when they became adults and then the cognitive dissonance finally did me in.

Research TTAT (The Truth About the Truth) at www.jwfacts.com . Prove to yourself what you believe and don’t believe. Crisis of Conscience, by Raymond Franz is a real eye-opener.

Also read Steven Hassan’s books starting with Combatting Cult Mind Control, then Releasing the Bonds, Empowering People to Think for Themselves and Freedom of Mind,Helping Loved Ones Leave Controlling People, Cults and Beliefs.

Please teach your child to think critically! Teach Your Child How to Think, by Edward de Bono will help with that.

Your wife may choose to use the Absolute Spiritual Endangerment escape clause so lovingly provided by the WTB$. Don’t give her ammunition! Learn how to ask open-ended questions without implicating yourself. I wrote an article for another forum regarding staying married to your unbelieving mate, specifically how to show your mate that Absolute Spiritual Endangerment is unscriptural. PM me if you would like me to send the article to you!

Be a good, loving husband and father. Do fun things with your family. Take day trips, long weekends away are even better. The more time away from meetings the better! Don’t trip any alarms. Take things slowly. Fading is your best option. DAing or getting DF’d may end up being the nuclear option for your family.

59

Was Your Leaving The Witnesses A Very Gradual Process Or A Quick One?

by minimus in

jw
friends

for me, it took many years.. even when i would read all the changes over the years from the "truth", i still would ignore it and "wait on jehovah" and try to be a positive force in the congregation.. eventually, i just couldn't take it anymore and resigned as an elder, and slowly but surely made my fade.. what about you?

were you out, in a short or longer time?

?.

rubadubdub

Six weeks from light bulb moment to I'm out'a here without the Internet. Seems like depression is a common thread here!

My “shift in thought” came one night at a Service Meeting in mid-May. They were droning on about doing more in the ministry, because so many people are going to die! That translated immediately in my mind to the thought, “If one more person tells me my kids are going to die. . .!” I spent six weeks dwelling on my couch, sorting through the years of doctrinal flip flops and morphing and how that impacted personal friends of mine, the injustices I saw over the years, the hypocrisy of being told to stay in submission to my faded 30 years earlier "unbelieving mate" by two elders who were both later DF’d for cheating on their JW pioneer wives—you get the picture. Hubby was used to my couch dwelling due to depression, and didn’t think anything was out of the norm. He came home one night in June, and I told him, “I’m not going to be a witness anymore.” I had agreed to take my former DIL’s mother to the D.C. and kept my word. I truly saw what was making me crazy all those years. I was surrounded by the Stepford wives! I walked away after 42 years in The Lie on July 3, 2011 after the last day of the District Convention cold turkey. July 4th is my personal Independence Day. I’m not DF’d or DA’d (yet!)

20

How did you spend your Saturdays?

by MissConfused in

it's been 3 weeks and every weekend is so much fun, spending quality time with real friends who dont pretend... last week was bbq, this sat was potluck, next one is long weekend away from home... all in all love my life again.... how was your saturday?

:).

rubadubdub

I am happy to say I have missed (not) two DCs and two Memorials!

I caught up with one of my sisters on the telephone on Friday night. I wake up early to take care of my pets. Hubby sleeps in about an hour later than I do most days. I love that quiet time—sipping a mug of coffee and reading Time magazine about The Childfree Life (Our daughter is a teacher who just adopted to lab puppies and posted their pics on Face Book calling them my grand dogs!) and another article about The Surveillance Society and the illusion of privacy (I could identify with that! Seems like the dubs are lurking everywhere!) All the while my dog was snuggled up next to me and my cat was kneading and purring in my lap. A bit of a balancing act with the coffee, but life is good.

Hubby made oatmeal with cinnamon and almonds. We headed out to the pet store to stock up on supplies, using a 20% off coupon. Then on to Action Sports, as I had finally, after two years of searching, found a life jacket in the style he likes with the right-sized pockets for his cell phone and GPS.

At noon we arrived at an Open House for an organization we volunteer for and chatted with the other volunteers before taking three groups of handicapped people out sailing for an hour each. They all loved my dog, and we had a great time. Hubby is the Captain and I’m First Mate. Saw ospreys, egrets and heron along the channel. Good wind, beautiful day, great sailing and laughter. Went out for a burger and a glass of wine at an outdoor restaurant with picnic benches (They allow dogs.) on the river nearby.

Checked on Mom on the way home. She has dementia and is a hoarder among other issues. She finally parted with a large rolling table that was taking up way too much room in her tiny apartment. She “gave” it to my hubby, but I will be accused of stealing it, I’m sure. Oh well.

When we got home hubby took a nap, (He’s a night owl and doesn’t get much sleep at night.), and I caught up on my email. We are planning Christmas in Central America with both our kids. I put the finishing touches on my lessons for my ESL (English as a second language) student and my Qigong class. I did a lesson in my Spanish course before snuggling in bed with hubby.

Two years out and life is good, MissConfused!

17

Sense of Mortality, Existential Angst and Leaving the Borg

by Frazzled UBM in

firstly apologies if i am stating the bleeding obvious or covering something that has already been covered or just showing my ignorance as someone who wasnever a jw - i am new here and relatively new in my exposure to the wbts organisation and its dogma.

the thing that has occurred to me is that born-in jws and middle-age jws must avoid the teenage existential angst of really getting a sense of their own mortaility and the middle age crisis of realizing that their best years are behind and they on the long downhill slide, because they expect to live forever.

i always wondered why teenage jws are goody two-shoes while they are believers and often go off the rails, even as 20 or 30 something adults, when they wake up and i figure that, apart from the fact that they are no longer being told what is right and wrong and all of a sudden have to work it out for themselves, this may related to the expectation that you will not physically die.

rubadubdub

Welcome Frazzled UBM!

I am a raised-in since nine years old, walked away at age 52 ex-JW. You asked for personal experiences regarding mortality. This is mine.

The issue of mortality was what gave me my initial wake-up call. I was sitting at a Service Meeting one Tuesday evening. They were droning on about the need to do more in the ministry, because so many people were going to die. . . I thought, "If one more person tells me my kids are going to die. . ." My daughter was DA'd "by her actions", my son was DF'd and my husband was a "known apostate", but they could never get the goods on him. For nearly a decade I knew that I just didn't want to live forever in a paradise alone, without my family. I even told the elders so. Of course, they told me to "Wait on Jehovah." I wondered how I ever would be the same person, if all memory of my loved ones was removed so that I would no longer suffer from the memory of their loss. I couldn't understand how I would even be the same person if I would not remember being married or being a mom. Something just snapped inside of me that night. I can't even explain it now, just two years later. Why was that my breaking point? Our family had been through much worse.

I thought things through carefully for six weeks on my own, only attending one Sunday meeting while I traveled with a sister and the 3 days of my final District Convention. I knew upon leaving that I was accepting that I was going to die. I was OK with that, as long as I could live the rest of my days united with my family. Of course, there were other huge issues-- I would not shun my son, I knew the over-lapping generation teaching was crap the moment I heard it, etc.

The thing I was not prepared for happened this spring-- it was four years sine the death of my DIL, and it hit me hard. I had to really grieve her loss for the first time. JW's don't really grieve a death fully, because that would show a lack of faith in the ressurection hope. I deeply greived my DIL's death for months and figured out what I needed to do to celebrate her life and did it. It doesn't hurt quite so much anymore.

Our son is healing. He invited my husand and me to visit him and go sailing for a week this fall. He is planning to come home and cook Thanksgiving Dinner together with me again this year. He even called it our "new tradition." And we are planning for the whole family to celebrate Christmas together with my daughter and her boyfriend who live in Central America. I choose my family and accept my mortality. I made the right choice.

39

AVOIDING A SHEPHERDING CALL: Suggestions pls

by grumblecakes in

jw
friends

yup got a voice mail bright and early this morning "grumblecakes, we would like to schedule a shepherding call".. how do i get outta this?.

.

thanks!!

rubadubdub

Hi Grumblecakes! I second Blondie's post. I experienced the same progression of events over a two-year period of time. I walked away cold and went from being contacted daily for five months to receiving my Memorial invite in the mail from the congo secretary last year and my Memorial and DC invites in my door this year.

My husband faded over 30 years ago. I was still in for three decades, and raised our kids as dubs. Hubby readily engaged the dubs, agreed with everything they said-- Yes, conditions are sooo much worse. Yes, I miss you and the friends too! Yes, I know my son gave a talk on the school; I heard him practice. Yes, yes, yes. Smile, smile, smile. Then he would always turn the conversation to them and their families. So nice to see you! Take care, bye!

Our daughter was asked for a shepherding call on the telephone when she was 17 years old. She "respectfully declined." She walked away and went to college. That was 15 years ago.

Our son chose the nuclear option: "Just f***ing DF me! I have a girlfriend (he was still married at the time-- really complicated story), and I smoke!" He was waving a lit cigarette at them. They cornered him at work. They obliged and DF'd him. That was 7 years ago.

I ignored all contact until about a year after my departure when a single el-dub in work clothes came to my door on a very rainy day. I let him in. He was alone. (Never talk to one of them on the phone either BTW, there may be a "second witness" listening in.) He asked how my sabbatical was going! Lol! I played the mental health card. Told him I knew where he was and knew how to contact him, if I needed to. I haven't seen them at my door or on my caller ID since. I still have lunch with my one conditional dub friend about every 4-6 weeks. Yes, she is probably counting the time. Helps me to keep up on congo news and fog my dub in-laws!

And get this; there is a whole hive of dub drone bees renovating a house right next door! I recognize all of the trucks. Hubby goes over to chat all the time. The contractor, a “bible student” with an “opposed wife” recognized me when I was walking to the mailbox early one morning. I said hi, listened to his woe and suggested he listen to his wife and do some online research about JWs. I thought I might have stirred the nest, but hey, it’s been a few weeks and no word yet—still just an “inactive sister”. Who? Don't even know the man! Never talked to him! No video; it didn't happen.

Grumblecakes, you are not accountable to them. Do what you have to in order to maintain the relationships you want for as long as you want. Just don’t talk to any dub on the phone or in person unless they are alone. Play the waiting game, and play whatever card(s) you have to. Each situation is different. Hope all is well for you and yours.

38

Did anyone ever notice just how many 30-40 year escapees there are?

by AK - Jeff in

jw
friends

i know a lot of young people leave the 'truth'.

but i would never have thought that so many of us with 20, 30, 40 years in would be leaving.

what do you think accounts for that?

rubadubdub

I walked away after 42 years. Cognitive dissonance brought me to the brink of insanity. I lived in a "divided household" for over 30 years with my husband who I was taught was an "apostate", my daughter walked out the door with no prior announcement the day she turned 18 and my son was disfellowshipped following a suicide attempt. I suffered from PTSD and severe clinical depression for decades.

In mid-May of 2011, I was sitting at the KH for the service meeting, and something snapped. They were droning on about how we had to do more in the ministry, because so many people were going to die. I thought, "If one more person tells me my kids are going to die. . ." I spent the next 6 weeks on the couch (Hubby thought nothing of it; he was used to seeing my couch dwelling.) going through all the doctrinal changes and increase of control over the years in my mind, from 1968 'til then. I knew the over-lapping generation doctrine was crap the moment I heard it. I thought about all the people and families that I personally knew that had been irrevocably harmed by the WTBS.

I was drawn to the WT at am early age, because I longed for a happy family. They promised me a happy family life, and now they were destroying my family. They were destroying me. I loved my husband and I loved my kids. I was done.

I am so thankful that both of my children have accepted my apologies, stating that they always knew I did everything out of love. I think Hubby is still in shock.

42

Can you help me encourage Reopened mind.

by TotallyADD in

jw
friends

as most of you know we got a very angry letter from our oldest son.

it hurt her very much.

i feel so bad for her because he attacked her for what i feel was very unfair.

rubadubdub

Totally ADD and Reopened Mind, my heart goes out to you both. One thing I have learned in life is that even when we are in the middle of a firestorm, we never really have all the facts. I was estranged from my son and daughter for 12 years. I thought it was my fault. They said it was my fault. In the end, when they matured, they accepted their part in all of the pain. Bottom line, they both on separate occaisions, told me that they always knew I loved them and that everything I did was from love. Stay the course. Unconditional love trumps all.

You will find out so much more later. It will help to fill in the pieces to the puzzle that you just don't have now. You have received a lot of good advice here. Live your life. Be who you are. May I suggest that you both read a book called The Four Agreements, by Miguel Ruiz?

The Four Agreements:

Be impeccable with your word

Don't take anything personally

Don't make assumptions

Always do your best

If you keep these agreements, you will save yourself a lot of unnecessary suffering. Trust me. I have been there.

Hugs,

Diane

77

Distrust and paranoia among faders

by cedars in

jw
friends

hi guys.

i'm interested in knowing whether any other faders out there ever find themselves feeling a little paranoid about establishing contact with other faders or former jws, just in case the unthinkable happens and things turn sour.. personally, i'm now fairly comfortable with the idea that i will be disfellowshipped or disassociated within the next year or so.

i see it as inevitable, and an essential transition in order to do what i want to do with my life.

rubadubdub

Cedars asked:

I'm interested in knowing whether any other faders out there ever find themselves feeling a little paranoid about establishing contact with other faders or former JWs, just in case the unthinkable happens and things turn sour.

Unlike you, Cedars, I really have so little to lose-- one very dear dub friend who I have lunch with monthly and my 86-year-old in-laws who have been "in" for over 50 years each (Bethelyellowdollarbag's parents). They live half-way across the country in the infamous town of "Freedonia" of the Marx Brothers Duck Soup fame. They are Luddites and do not own a TV or a computer. My MIL is a "meaner than a junk-yard dog" dub. NEVER liked her. FIL was a P.O., but is being eased out of his various positions (Congregation Secretary, RBC, Field Service Group Overseer) because of his age and unwillingness to connect with the bOrg collective via the Internet. I see the hurt and bewilderment in his eyes and hear it in his voice. It makes me sad. We only see them once every five years or so, and may never see them again. They have a rotary dial phone, hence no caller ID. They shun my hubby and our two children. My hubby calls them whenever there is a major storm in their area or ours to check in. The phone conversations are getting dramatically shorter with the new info on shunning. I do believe that if they had caller ID, they wouldn't pick up when their son calls. Hubby wants me to try to fog them as long as possible to maintain some contact (monthly snail mail), even though they have made it very clear that they neither want, nor need any help from him/us. They have made it abundantly clear that the WTB$ will be getting every penny of their considerable wealth. I have no family in The Lie.

That being said, I won't play by bOrg rules and DA myself. When I first walked away I wrote a DA letter. It was therapeutic. I was angry, but I sat with the anger and didn't send the letter. I just want to live my life in peace. We live in a small town. If I run into a dub, I keep it light and simple. I don't want to deal with shunning. We only have a few years until retirement, and we won't be retiring here. My hubby has business ties with known, long-time apostates from my former congregation. I am reluctant to make any overtures, not because I distrust them, but because the elders may be watching. There are also long-time faders who I would like to be open with, but don't approach for the same reason. I would trust them not to intentionally "out" me, but they still have family "in", and they may slip up. So yes, I am a tad paranoid.

I am just living my life. My DF'd son is fully part of my life; I go to yoga classes; I voted; I attended a public 9-11 remembrance ceremony and pledged allegience to the flag (No one needs to be inflicted with my singing the National Anthem); I thank military personnel for their service and have even hugged them when my gesture brought tears to their eyes; I celebrate holidays; etc. Any one of these things could get me DF'd. I accept the risk, and I accept that. It is what it is in this moment. At the same time I am not in their face about anything I'm doing, for example, I see no reason to put up a huge Christmas tree and decorate my house with lights; my children are grown. One lives six hours away here in the US, the other teaches in Guatemala City. We celebrated my first Christmas "out" in "Guate"! What a hoot! Adults and children alike dressed as super heroes dancing in the public squares!

I openly post here and on the Yuku ex-jw forum. I don't hide details. I am being me for the first time in my known memory. This ia an important part of my healing process. I am even more open now that my hubby has begun posting here and attended the premier of The Truth be Told documentary in Brooklyn, NY with me. Hubby faded over 30 years ago, but is only now learning TTATT. Even a month ago he defended JWs as "mostly having it right and fairly benign". He is now posting on a sub-Reddit forum for now athiest exiting ex-jws and is enjoying it. I guess I'm saying that we all have to move through the exiting process in our own time and our own way, "counting the cost"TM which it sounds like you are trying to do. I know I have moved through the anger stage into acceptance. If they DF/DA me, so be it.

The interesting question for me now seems to be, once we retire far, far away; whether or not I am officially DF'd/DA'd, would I ever mention having been a dub to anyone in our new community? I have heard of stories where someone mentioned they used to be a JW, and because of some random link that person has to the bOrg, the elders come knocking. At some point I want to put this all behind me and leave it there. In the meantime I will give back to the community that has supported me through this very rough transition in my life after 42 years in a cult.

BTW If two elders ever showed up at my door with posts from Rubadubdub, I would have no problem with playing dumb, as in, "I have know idea what you are talking about. Rubadubdub, who?, ex-jw forum, what? What does this have to do with me?"

Rubbity

14

Flash Backs

by hopelesslystained in

how do you deal with them?

from experiencing falsely based family accusations.

commitee meetings (old term).

rubadubdub

exwhyzee wrote:

The more one runs an event over in ones mind, the more firmly embedded it becomes in the circuitry of the brain. Make a point of dismissing these unwanted thoughts as soon as you notice you are having them. Shoo them away like one shoos' away flies at a picnic.....don't go there anymore. Replace these thoughts with ones you would rather think about....change the channel to something more upbuilding. Soon you'll be adept at recognizing them when they first occur and you will gain the ability to short circuit these episodes before they go far enough to spoil your day.

hopelesslystained, I experience nightmares and PTSD flashbacks as well. I have learned that what exwhyzee wrote is very true. The more we retell the story to ourselves or others the more embedded the story becomes. (Sometimes I have to take a break from the newbie intro posts for this reason.) I have learned to tune into my body for cues. As others have said stress and exhaustion put you in a weakened place emotionally and psychologically. Also, loneliness is a factor for me.

Conscious connection is key-- Connection to people that are healthy for you, connection to causes that empower you and connection to your physical world (nature). Physical activity is key. Connection to your inner world is key. This where mindfulness comes in. You can take an eight-week course in Mindfulness-Based Stress Reduction by a practitioner trained at the University of Massachusetts, USA where the program originated for pain control under Jon Kabat-Zinn. You can order his audio course online. Some hospitals have clinics that run this course. It is evidence-based. It helps tremendously. Also, some Yoga studios have practioners that run the course a couple of times a year.

I took workshop in mindfulness by Elisha Goldstein. He wrote a book called The Now Effect. If you buy his book on an E-reader like Kindle, there are links to guided mindfulness practices within the book. He has YouTube videos as well. If you go to http://elishagoldstein.com/ you can register for Daily Now Moments, which are daily reminders for practicing minfulness. The reason this helps is that you need to get out of your mind and into your body. Practicing Yoga, Qi Gong or Tai Chi will get you in your body through meditative movement. Mindful (staying in the present moment with non-judgemental awareness through all five senses) walks outdoors are healing, calming to your mind and body both.

One concept about the flashbacks and thoughts about the flashbacks is not to resist them. I used to resist them and try to push them away, and it didn't work. What does work is to acknowlege them; don't resist them or try to change them, just let them float by as if a cloud in the sky. Acknowlege what you are feeling emotionally and the physical sensations present in your body at that momoent. Here is where some reading about Radical Acceptance comes in. Tara Brach has books and audio prgrams that are very helpful. You can read about Radical Acceptance and trauma at http://www.tarabrach.com/articles/trauma.html

These are self-help measures. I know you didn't ask for referral to a professional, however, I hate to leave out that Eye movement desensitization and reprocessing (EMDR) is an evidence-based-treatment for trauma (meaning health insurances tend to be cooperative about paying for these treatments.) I went to a practitioner for three visits, and she told me I was not ready for EMDR. You need to be able to envision yourself in a safe place on your own, and I couldn't do that. She referred me to DBT (Dialectical Behavioral Therapy), also evidence-based. DBT is intensive-- one individual and two group therapy sessions per week (with homework assignments) for four months. There are four modules-- Mindfulness, Distress Tolerance, Emotion Regulation and Interpersonal Relationships. I have found DBT to be of tremendous help. You can Google EMDR and DBT for more information.

Regarding nightmares-- I find it helpful to unwind and destress for the last hour before bedtime. No late night news reports, no crime solving or ER/hospital type TV shows, because they put you in an anxious state of mind. (Actually no TV or online reading/posting is recommended before bed, due to light stimulation issues.) Yes, your brain works things out in when you sleep, but not priming your brain with problems to work out or things that make you anxious right before you go to bed will help.

Lastly, if you do have PTSD, you can learn to recogize when you are being triggered before you go into an anxiety/panic attack or dissociate. Again, awareness is developed by mindfully tuning into your body. Initially, you will need to simply remove youself from the situation as quickly as possible. As you heal, you will be able to use"grounding" techniques to help keep you in your body and out of your head in these situations.

I hope this helps, and wish you well (((hopelesslystained))). Honestly, I would change your user name. Labeling yourself in that way will not help you to heal.

Feel free to PM me,

Rubbity