Vidqun

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Posts by Vidqun

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  18

  Analysis of the Book of Daniel

  by Londo111 in

  1. watchtower
  2. bible

  i had hoped one or two others were about to start a thread on the book of daniel, springing off from the nwt conversation, but alas, nobody has yet.

  therefore, i thought i'd start one--i hope that was not too presumptuous of me.

  personally, i have nothing meaty to contribute to this thread, only questions and gut feelings.

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  Vidqun

  Allow me to fire the first salvo:

  The first to question the authenticity of the book, would be the Neoplatonist philosopher Porphyry (ca. 232-303 CE). This is not surprising. He hated Christianity. Ironically, Daniel is a much maligned book today, but this time targeted by Christian Bible scholars. These would continue where Porphyry had left off. The reason: Most attempt to pin Daniel’s prophecies to events during the reign of Antiochus IV Epiphanes. These follow the interpretation found in the book of Maccabees, one that Jesus rejected outright (cf. 1 Maccabees 1:54, 59; Matt. 24:15, 16). Even the angel in Daniel’s final vision would doom a Jewish uprising, saying: “And the sons of the robbers [“violent ones”, CSBO] belonging to your people will, for their part, be carried along to try making a vision come true; and they will have to stumble”, i.e., die [1] (cf. Dan. 11:14b).

  Modern scholars, with Porphyry, insist that there can be no predictive element in prophecy. By refusing to consider a post-Grecian interpretation of Daniel’s prophecies, these place an impossible burden on the interpreter as well as an insurmountable obstacle on the road to a satisfactory exegesis. These maintain that ancient wisdom cannot stand against the onslaught of modern criticism. No wonder the skeptics reign supreme. A similar situation existed in Asaph’s day: “Our signs we have not seen; there is no prophet any more, And there is no one with us knowing how long” (cf. Ps. 74:9).

  ---

  [1] The Hebrew word for stumble is kâshal (= “to cause to fall”). Especially in the book of Daniel this verb refers to a literal stumbling because of war (cf. Dan. 11:33b). In most cases the Syriac interprets it as “to overthrow.” This fact is corroborated by HALOT: to fall, collapse (of a government, dynasty) Dan. 11:14, 19, 33, 35, 41. In each of these cases, the verb refers to people, not countries. The Maccabean dynasty, and all break-away groups, disobedient to God, would come to a violent end.
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  13

  Crisis of Conscience within the Traralgon Congregation of Jehovah's Witnesses - Part 1

  by sizemik in

  1. watchtower
  2. child-abuse

  this press release on steven unthank's website yesterday is worth a read .

  it's a fuller version .

  more details.. http://jwnewsnetwork.wordpress.com/2011/12/11/traralgon-congregation-crisis-of-conscience-part-1/.

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  Vidqun

  Is there going to be a change in terminology yet again? The Theocratic Ministry Gettogether? I think the word "school" is going to disappear. Just because they do not want to give to Caesar what belongs to him.
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  22

  How Dangerous Is Putin?

  by scotoma in

  1. jw
  2. friends

  russia is facing the same dilemma that the dictators in the middle east have been facing.. in the middle east the leaders have tried to kill or at least beat up demonstrators.

  this hasn't worked.. putin has been watching this and he has been opposed to the west getting involved.

  he no doubt knows what the consequences.

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  Vidqun

  Where does Putin (and the Russians) fit in? Here's a suggestion:

  Different guises of the King of the North : The Syrian Seleucid dynasty would be established to the north of “the beautiful land”, Israel. Daniel was to call it King of the North. Under the Seleucids the Israelites would suffer. Determining the identity of the King of the North from here on would prove to be more problematic, since he would undergo many identity changes. His chief identifying mark would be his vehement opposition to the King of the South. In Dan. 11:20 Rome would don the mantle of the King of the North. This would muddy the waters somewhat. Eventually his identity would migrate from the Syrian Seleucid-line of kings and Rome to the Germanic Empire.

  The new King of the North, with his Axis powers, would oppose the King of the South and his Allies in two World Wars (cf. Dan. 11:28, 29a). One of his predecessors will unleash a new, oppressive force on mankind, called Communism. In 1917, after Russia’s czar abdicated, Kaiser Wilhelm sent Nikolai Lenin from Switzerland across Germany and Sweden to Russia to spread Bolshevism (or Communism), for the purpose of weakening the Russian armies. The King could not foresee the dire consequences of his actions. He would awaken a cruel giant that would come back to haunt him (cf. Dan. 11:31a, 36-39).

  True to form, after subjugating the Germans in 1944, the USSR and fellow Communists would take over the mantle of King of the North. This King of the North would rid himself of all Roman influence. He would be one of the primary movers behind “the disgusting thing that is causing desolation” (cf. Dan. 11:31b), supposedly a peace keeping organization.

  Even so, those countries belonging to the Warsaw Pact, a cooperative treaty organization of European Communistic nations, would wage a protracted war of attrition, the “Cold War”, against NATO, the defensive arm of the King of the South (cf. Dan. 11:40). With the demise of the communistic USSR, the waters would become murky yet again. The King of the North would crawl into a hole of inactivity and lick his wounds.

  The King of the North would undergo a complete make-over. A rejuvenated King of the North would crawl out of his hole, surrounded by a troupe of allies. Of this grouping, Russia and the People’s Republic of China would take the lead. Russia is a major energy exporter. The nations of the world, especially those in the West, would become dependent on its oil and natural gas. China, on the other hand, is renowned for its impregnable State-controlled “closed” economy with its powerful industries. The Chinese economy has recently surpassed that of Japan, becoming the second largest economy of the world. Not only would this new King of the North alter his outward appearance, he would also change his strategy. He would initiate a new kind of war, i.e., economic warfare, against the King of the South. The King of the North would attack the King of the South and his allies by means of BRICS, a powerful economic conglomerate of emerging nations, consisting of Brazil, Russia, India, China, and South Africa, representing the African Continent.
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  83

  Examples of Bias/Discrepancies in the New World Translation

  by Londo111 in

  1. watchtower
  2. bible

  to be fair, translating the bible is a huge undertaking, and in doing so, there are bound to be mistakes, or even limits to a committee's knowledge.

  obviously, we cannot read the hearts of the four translators of the new world translation committee to know when they consciously or subconsciously altered renderings in to support doctrinal bias.

  but more and more, i do come across things that feel askew to me.

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  Vidqun

  Agreed. I'll wait for that Daniel thread. Daniel is a certain favorite of mine. In the main I follow the aim and methodology of Keil & Delitzsch: “In the great multiplicity of opinions, in order to give clearness to the interpretation, we shall endeavour first of all to ascertain the meaning of the words of each clause and verse, and then, after determining exegetically the import of the words, take into consideration the historical references and calc ulations of the periods of time named, and thus further to establish our view.”

  C. F. Keil & F. Delitzsch, Commentary on the Old Testament. Vol. 9, p. 716 (Dan. 9:24–27). Peabody, MA: Hendrickson.
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  83

  Examples of Bias/Discrepancies in the New World Translation

  by Londo111 in

  1. watchtower
  2. bible

  to be fair, translating the bible is a huge undertaking, and in doing so, there are bound to be mistakes, or even limits to a committee's knowledge.

  obviously, we cannot read the hearts of the four translators of the new world translation committee to know when they consciously or subconsciously altered renderings in to support doctrinal bias.

  but more and more, i do come across things that feel askew to me.

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  Vidqun

  Leolaia, thanks for your informative posts. There's always something useful in there that makes me think (I believe one must exercise one's brain otherwise it'll turn into mush).

  I think that was a major mistake of the Society for not keeping up to date with the latest developments. Theoretically, the Scriptures should have been a major concern. They had virtually unlimited resources at their disposal. In the late eighties I wrote to them to remind them that the age of Westcott & Hort (1881) was finally over. By then it was over a hundred years old. The Egyptian papyri were discovered long after W&H came into being. They should rather start using the Standard text as a basis for the NW. But by then the deterioration had already set in.

  I have Collins' Daniel, a mine of information. Especially informative was his discussion on Eschatological Markers, on p. 161. However, I cannot agree with the statement that "there can be no predictive element in prophecy." That's a paradox if there ever was one. Collins, with most modern scholars and critics, refuse to consider a post-Grecian interpretation of Daniel's prophecies, especially Dan. 2 & 7. They relegate the book of Daniel to the category of imperfect and dishonest history (by a deluded Maccabean Jew). There I tend to be more conservative or old-fashioned, accepting Jesus' statement that Dan. 9:27 referred to the Roman invasion, and not the occupation of Antioches IV Epiphanes (cf. Matt. 24:15).

  I have a list of changes from the 1960 to the 1970 version (the small red NWT), but the print is very small. I'll go through it and see if I can pick out word changes that have to do with doctrinal changes. If I unearth anything dramatic, I will post it.
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  28

  If You Have Had the CO or DO Stay With You...

  by A question in

  1. jw
  2. friends

  for those of you who have had the co/do stay with you for the week:.

  how was the experience?.

  how did they spend their free time?

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  Vidqun

  Thanks Nancy, thought I might be a bit paranoid. Many, many years ago (over 20) I attended a Ministerial School. A brother gave a talk on empathy, and he stressed the point, If you don't have empathy, you have a big problem. Don't say, I am a man's man, I'm tough, I don't show emotion or sympathy. Know you've got a problem, and work on it. So what has happened in the mean time? Has empathy become "old light"? Today, I would avoid becoming an elder or MS at all costs. Why? I don't want to end up like them.
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  32

  The biggest lie

  by sizemik in

  1. jw
  2. friends

  it's the biggest lie that's ever been told .

  a lie i've heard more than any other .

  all through my life i keep hearing it.. everybody tells it .

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  Vidqun

  Agreed. That makes two of us.
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  32

  The biggest lie

  by sizemik in

  1. jw
  2. friends

  it's the biggest lie that's ever been told .

  a lie i've heard more than any other .

  all through my life i keep hearing it.. everybody tells it .

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  Vidqun

  I agree, LoneWolf, my father for one. There was still a lot that he wanted to accomplish. He fought the cancer tooth and nail, but that was one battle he could not win. In my case, I think I have done most things I set out to do, so most of the things on my "bucket list" have been ticked off. A certain school of philosophy beliefs that man's ultimate goal is achieving self-worth and recognition by his peers. Those that feel they have not achieved that in full measure, would not be ready to die either.
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  28

  If You Have Had the CO or DO Stay With You...

  by A question in

  1. jw
  2. friends

  for those of you who have had the co/do stay with you for the week:.

  how was the experience?.

  how did they spend their free time?

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  Vidqun

  My recent experiences with them were mainly unpleasant. Outside field service, they don't seem to be able to think for themselves. However, this is not a generalization. Some of them had been very pleasant. My parents were overseas, so I had to look after the CO and his wife. I went to a lot of trouble preparing for them and stocking their larder. After the week, I was virtually bankrupt. I breathed a sigh of relief that the week was drawing to a close. After the week they asked if they could stay for another week. My world came tumbling down.

  One CO couple expected us to serve them hand and foot. The wife did not lift a finger to help. They never paid for anything, and saved all their money for overseas trips. When we explained to them that some of the poor brothers and sisters would use up their total monthly allowance to prepare a meal for them, they looked at us with blank stares, as though that was the norm. I got the impression they live in a different world, a world without empathy. The last two I confronted with the UN-NGO scandal. The first one went grey with shock. Eventually he said: "We all do stupid things," which was a good answer. The second one took the standard line: "For us is not to reason why, for us to do and die." Well, I told him I felt humiliated and deeply stumbled. Perhaps now I am a marked man? Hopefully they will avoid me in future.

  The DO complained that the little bar fridge in their flat froze everything. I went there and showed him the little knob when you open the door. This you can turn up or down. The last round I stocked the flat and fridge with two weeks of supplies. The CO arrived the Monday night. The Tuesday afternoon he came to the house, wondering where their food was. I, as the host, were supposed to feed them according to the program, which I only received the next day. So after all that, never again. But that's what I said last time....
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  32

  The biggest lie

  by sizemik in

  1. jw
  2. friends

  it's the biggest lie that's ever been told .

  a lie i've heard more than any other .

  all through my life i keep hearing it.. everybody tells it .

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  Vidqun

  I have always been relatively unafraid, enjoying pastimes as rock climbing and deep sea diving. Death was never a problem for me, whatever my fate might be. But then I read that’s not completely normal. And seeing that I am a catlover, and having had many cats, the following explanation seems plausible:

  Toxoplasmosis (Toxoplasma gondii): It has been found that the parasite has the ability to change the behaviour of its host: infected rats and mice are less fearful of cats—in fact, some of the infected rats seek out cat-urine-marked areas. This effect is advantageous to the parasite, which is able to proliferate if a cat eats the infected rat and thereby becomes a carrier. The mechanism for this change is not completely understood, but there is evidence that toxoplasmosis infection raises dopamine levels and concentrates in the amygdala in infected mice. Estimation: Between 30-65% people have been infected, depending where you live (see Wikipedia on toxoplasmosis).

  Bottom line: If you are unafraid, you might have latent toxoplasmosis.