Everything of the best. Hope to hear from you soon. Hands off those cute little nurses. Look but do not touch, otherwise you'll have to deal with Mrs. Cofty. Just to inform you, I've ordered a few books from Amazon, amongst them "The Selfish Gene" (Dawkins), "the Structure of Evolutionary Theory" (Gould), "Adaptation" (Rose) and "Word Biblical Commentary: Daniel" (Goldingay). Sorry, couldn't help the last one, it's a weakness. Usually takes a few weeks.
Posts by Vidqun
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28Cofty -- well wishes
by talesin ini've been looking for a thread, but can't see one ..... .
our fellow member cofty, should be through his surgery, and i'm just sending love and healing energy for his recovery.. .
any well-wishes, prayers, thoughts ..... please join in!.
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Is the Watchtower shy about repeating their new "generation" teaching?
by slimboyfat inas i recall in the 1980s talks and watchtower literature, magazines and books were always talking about the "generation" teaching and how it proved armageddon was going to come any day now.. but am i correct in thinking they have only actually mentioned the new "overlapping generations" teaching once or twice in the literature?
why are they so shy about talking about their great new interpretation?
it's almost enough to make you suspect they are a embarrassed about it.. mention it once or twice, don't dwell on it, hope everyone just accepts it, and don't bring it up again.
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Vidqun
Oh where's Eggnog when you need him? I wish he would explain the following text, by using the Society's new light.
NWT Deuteronomy 5:9 You must not bow down to them or be led to serve them, because I Jehovah your God am a God exacting exclusive devotion, bringing punishment for the error of fathers upon sons and upon the third generation and upon the fourth generation, in the case of those who hate me;
Who exactly is it that will get punished here? With a generation (= overlapping groups) everybody will get punished, and for a long, long time. Nope, it makes no sense at all. Help, Djeggnog!
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What apostates fail to recognize is...
by nananana inyou can cut & paste all the excerpts from articles you want...you can leak all the boe letters, you can pretend to be witnesses and come to the conventions and meetings...but.
no other organization can begin to rival the success and magnitude of the prophecy found in mt 24:14. so apostates....don't waste your time spending countless hours digging up articles and reading books to convince yourself to turn away from jh's organization.
no matter what "evidence" you find you cannot ignore the obvious fulfillment of matthew 24:14.. .
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Vidqun
Nanana, allow me to show you Matt. 24:14 from a different perspective. Please follow the Prophetic Timeline based on WT theology (I would be worried if I were you):
NWT Mark 13:10 Also, in all the nations the good news has to be preached first.
NWT Matthew 24:14 And this good news of the kingdom will be preached in all the inhabited earth for a witness to all the nations; and then the end will come.
w95 9/1 16
Looking forward especially to our time, Jesus said: “This good news of the kingdom will be preached in all the inhabited earth for a witness to all the nations; and then the end will come.” (Matthew 24:14; Mark 13:10) Has this prophecy been fulfilled? Indeed, it has. From a small start in 1919, the preaching of the good news has now been extended to more than 230 countries. The witness is heard in the frozen North and in the steaming tropics. Large continents are covered, and remote islands are sought out so that their inhabitants can receive a witness.
Prophetic fulfillment: 1919 – 1991
Disgusting Thing Causing Desolation
NWT Matthew 24:15 Therefore, when YOU catch sight of the disgusting thing that causes desolation, as spoken of through Daniel the prophet, standing in a holy place, (let the reader use discernment,)
NWT Mark 13:14a However, when YOU catch sight of the disgusting thing that causes desolation standing where it ought not (let the reader use discernment),
World Government (1977) go, chap. 9, p. 152, par. 9: “The “Sign” of Imminence of the World Government”:
We have also observed the “placing of the disgusting thing that is causing desolation” in the ‘setting up’ of a man-made substitute for God’s Messianic kingdom, namely, the League of Nations, in 1919, and its successor, the United Nations, in 1945. (Matthew 24:4-15; Daniel 12:11)
w99 5/1 p. 17 par. 16 “Let the Reader Use Discernment”
Since the start of the great tribulation is yet future, is the “standing in a holy place” still ahead of us? Evidently so. While “the disgusting thing” made its appearance early in this century and has, thus, existed for decades, it will take a position in a unique way “in a holy place” in the near future.
Disgusting Thing Taking Up A Unique Position
When did “the disgusting thing causing desolation” take up a unique position?
To see this, one needs discernment. Not all will see it. On 8 October 2001 the UK-based newspaper The Guardian broke the story of the Watchtower Bible & Tract Society of New York enjoying associate member status of the UN’s Department of Information. Commenting on the Watchtower Bible & Tract Society of New York having been a Non Governmental Organization (NGO) of the UN DPI, Paul Hoeffel, Chief of the NGO section of the Department of Information, reports: “This organization applied for association with DPI in 1991 and was granted association in 1992. By accepting association with DPI, the organization agreed to meet criteria associated with DPI, including support and respect of the principles of the Charter of the United Nations and commitment and means to conduct effective information programmes with its constituents and to a broader audience about UN activities.” True to this mandate, a number of articles were published, espousing the virtues of the disgusting thing causing desolation, e.g., Awake! magazine of 22 July 2001, published a pro-UN article on “Volunteerism!”
Prophetic fulfilment: 1992 – 2001
Time to Flee
NWT Matthew 24:16 then let those in Judea begin fleeing to the mountains.
NWT Mark 13:14b then let those in Judea begin fleeing to the mountains.
There is great trouble in store for those calling themselves God’s people, especially anointed ones. Read scriptures like Ez. 38, 39; Dan. 8:13, 14; 11:40-45; 12:7; Zech. 13:8-14:5; Rev. 11:7, 8. Jesus warned: When one catches sight of the disgusting thing that causes desolation, “standing in a holy place”, “standing where it ought not”, then let those in Judea begin fleeing to the mountains (cf. Matt. 24:15; Mark 13:14). Here i t should be noted that while the fulfillment of Jesus’ words in 66-70 CE can help us to understand how they will be fulfilled at the great tribulation, the two fulfillments cannot be exactly parallel because the fulfillments occur against different backdrops (see w99 5/1 19, 20).
What mountains would Jesus be referring to? These cannot be “the mountains of Israel”, because these are going to be invaded (cf. Ezek. 38:8, 16, 18, 21; 39:4). This can only point to the mountains, mentioned by the prophet Zechariah (14:4, 5), more specifically to the valley formed between those two mountains (cf. Is. 26:20, 21) .
Prophetic fulfilment: 2002 –
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Laying on their side for 3 days
by exwhyzee init's been so long since i was at a meeting that i'm beginning to forget a lot of the nonsense i used to know, but does anyone remember how the society used to say that when the gb members were imprisioned around 1919 it fullfilled the prophesy about the prophet laying on his side for 3 days in the roadway ?.
what was that all about and how does their belief regarding their role in fulfilling this prophesy effect the new thinking on the definition of "generation" ?
it seems like they just had to amend the term "generation" in order to keep the year 1914 relevant as well as all the other supposed fullfilments of prophesy they thought they were part of.
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Vidqun
Are you thinking of the prophet Ezekiel? He had to picture the siege of Jerusalem by lying on his side (Ez. 4:1-7). He had to lay on his side for 390 days for Israel and 40 days for Judah. I think in the Ezekiel book they apply it to Christendom. Not sure what the recent explanation is.
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Hoist by their own petard: Using w86 4/1 30, 31 for your own defence
by rory-ks inthe april 1, 1986, watchtower, questions from readers is still the basis upon which jehovah's witnesses see fit to act against so-called apostates.
it is, however, completely shot through with discrepancies and weak arguments.
all of these can be used to build a solid defence.
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Vidqun
Jehovah’s Witnesses declare as good news something beyond what Paul declared. C.T. Russell identified the 144,000 as literal number of elite elect, and the great crowd as a lesser class of Christian. From 1935, Rutherford widened this difference even more with the earthly class.
If Russel and Rutherford were alive today, they would have been disfellowshipped.
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The wonders of God's creation - Example 1, the tsetse fly
by jambon1 inthere are 23 species of tsetse flies.
diseases transmitted by tsetse flies kill 250,000300,000 people per year.. why create such a thing?.
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Vidqun
Here’s a few quotes from the eminent Robert Jastrow. One should keep in mind, he was agnostic, but with a open mind and very tolerant to other beliefs. His credentials are impeccable. Unfortunately he is dead, so you cannot shoot him. I like what he says, but I can see why most of you will not like what he says. The bias runs deep. What can one learn from this: Tolerance, mutual respect and an open mind go a long way:
"Now we see how the astronomical evidence supports the biblical view of the origin of the world. The details differ, but the essential elements in the astronomical and biblical accounts of Genesis are the same: the chain of events leading to man commenced suddenly and sharply at a definite moment in time, in a flash of light and energy."
"There is a strange ring of feeling and emotion in these reactions [of scientists to evidence that the universe had a sudden beginning]. They come from the heart whereas you would expect the judgments to come from the brain. Why? I think part of the answer is that scientists cannot bear the thought of a natural phenomenon which cannot be explained, even with unlimited time and money. There is a kind of religion in science; it is the religion of a person who believes there is order and harmony in the Universe. Every event can be explained in a rational way as the product of some previous event; every effect must have its cause, there is no First Cause. … This religious faith of the scientist is violated by the discovery that the world had a beginning under conditions in which the known laws of physics are not valid, and as a product of forces or circumstances we cannot discover. When that happens, the scientist has lost control. If he really examined the implications, he would be traumatized."
"Consider the enormity of the problem. Science has proved that the universe exploded into being at a certain moment. It asks: What cause produced this effect? Who or what put the matter or energy into the universe? And science cannot answer these questions, because, according to the astronomers, in the first moments of its existence the Universe was compressed to an extraordinary degree, and consumed by the heat of a fire beyond human imagination. The shock of that instant must have destroyed every particle of evidence that could have yielded a clue to the cause of the great explosion."
"For the scientist who has lived by his faith in the power of reason, the story ends like a bad dream. He has scaled the mountain of ignorance; he is about to conquer the highest peak; as he pulls himself over the final rock, he is greeted by a band of theologians who have been sitting there for centuries."
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The wonders of God's creation - Example 1, the tsetse fly
by jambon1 inthere are 23 species of tsetse flies.
diseases transmitted by tsetse flies kill 250,000300,000 people per year.. why create such a thing?.
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Vidqun
There's a book called God and the Astronomers by Robert Jastrow. In an interview with Christianity Today, Jastrow says: "Astronomers now find they have painted themselves into a corner because they have proven, by their own methods, that the world began abruptly in an act of creation to which you can trace the seeds of every star, every planet, every living thing in this cosmos and on the earth. And they have found that all this happened as a product of forces they cannot hope to discover. That there are what I or anyone would call supernatural forces at work is now, I think, a scientifically proven fact." Don't know whether that'll constitute as proof. Seems like I should rather have said: More astronomers belief in God than e.g., biologists and geologists.
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The wonders of God's creation - Example 1, the tsetse fly
by jambon1 inthere are 23 species of tsetse flies.
diseases transmitted by tsetse flies kill 250,000300,000 people per year.. why create such a thing?.
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Vidqun
Designs, prions is a fascinating subject. On the one hand, their prediction and discovery testifies to the brilliance of man. On the other hand, they exemplify the man's stupity, when he doesn't follow the manual. I specifically refer here to Jakob-Creuzfeldt Syndrome, which is inherited from mad cow disease. When animals (herbivores) are fed animals (or animal protein) you are looking for trouble, as the English Meat Industry had to find out the hard way. A subject worthy of its own thread.
Still thinking, as Sabs said, to choose from a god from all the godly pantheons, one needs a discerning eye and mind. When you see the blue screen of death on your computer, is it because of a faulty programmer, courtesy of Microsoft, or is it a case of shit happens. Interestingly, many astronomers “see” and believe in a god or superior being, whereas most biologists and geologist do not. Are they influenced by their subject matter?
Ziddina, time will tell. I believe things are coming to a head. If man is allowed to carry on, he will ruin the earth. If there is a God, now would be a good time to intervene. So, one way or the other, we are going to find out about it soon enough
At this stage, the best part of evolution, that makes hundred percent sense, is the Darwin Awards. That’s when you take yourself out of the human race by your stupidity. With your death you get a Darwin Award, i.e., for not reproducing and spreading your stupidity.
Who read Terry Pratchett’s Disc world novel, The Last Continent, set in Australia? I think it involved the wizard Rincewind. The god of evolution was busy developing the cockroach as his main project. This should appeal to evolutionist and creationist alike. And for those that are a little tense, to loosen up. Here's a summary:
The wizards soon encounter plants that rapidly evolve to suit their needs but (apart from Ponder) do not question the turn of events until a large dinosaur evolves into a chicken in front of their eyes. After finding a plant-based boat, the wizards start to question their surroundings even more and the god of Evolution, who has been causing the events, then turns up and helps explain things a bit. He created the boat plant so that the wizards would leave him in peace, as the plants are going haywire attempting to evolve to suit the wizards' every needs. The god doesn't understand the purpose of the seeds and is, it turns out, unaware of the concept of sexual reproduction. After Mrs. Whitlow explains it to him, the much excited god decides to almost completely redesign the creatures on the island in order to incorporate the idea. Ponder decides to stay to help the god while the wizards load up on provisions and leave. Ponder soon catches up with them, as he discovered that the God was fixated with beetles and built the cockroach as his primary project rather than humans. The wizards then reach Fourecks and meet the Creator of Fourecks (not of the Disc) in the process of creating it by way of impressionistic cave paintings. The wizards bicker over the Creator's technique and inadvertently create the duck-billed platypus. The Librarian meanwhile steals the Creator's bullroarer and spins it, causing the drought Rincewind is in the process of stopping. The wizards are then frozen in time for thousands of years by the stray magic left over from creating the continent.
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The wonders of God's creation - Example 1, the tsetse fly
by jambon1 inthere are 23 species of tsetse flies.
diseases transmitted by tsetse flies kill 250,000300,000 people per year.. why create such a thing?.
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Vidqun
Cofty, you either agree with God (and his laws) or you don't. You're friends with him, or you aren't. It's a choice. Well, it's either pre-programmed, or you program yourself. I'll go for the former.
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The wonders of God's creation - Example 1, the tsetse fly
by jambon1 inthere are 23 species of tsetse flies.
diseases transmitted by tsetse flies kill 250,000300,000 people per year.. why create such a thing?.
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Vidqun
Ziddina, we see things from different perspectives. You see evolution in Christianity. I see evolution in reverse. All the break-away groups did not improve the situation. See word "schism," and "schismatic": a division, separation into mutually opposed or hostile parties. I see a similar process in language development, evolution in reverse, with complex languages being simplified all the time, e.g., English and Hebrew.
Natural Immunity: You see it as self-improvement, evolution in action. I see it as pre-programmed. Yes, some people have built up resistance against sleeping sickness. If not the whole lot, living in endemic areas, would have been dead.
Cofty, I see "spirituality" as being in tune with God (his way of thinking). Some people are, some people are not.