Sylvia, over the news it was reported that they are reasonably sure (according to radar data and wreckage spotted by the planes and satellites) the plane crashed west of Australia, in the Indian Ocean. They also announced this to the family members of those missing people. An Australian navy ship is on the way to the area. But like you say, a lot of questions need to be answered.
Posts by Vidqun
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55What Ailed Those Pilots ... ?
by snowbird inthe pilots and crew of the missing plane, was something wrong with all of them?.
sylvia.
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41
Discussion with some elders
by GoUnion inhello everyone just wanted to relate a situation that occurred a few days ago.
so i have quit going to meetings for a few months now based on some issues i have with the explanations of current doctrines.
my wife is none too happy with this but over the last few months we have had some date nights and have tentitively agreed to disagree.
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Vidqun
I am sorry to break the news. If you disagree with the Organization, you're out. Next step is a JC. The big question is then posed: "Do you believe the Organization (=GB) represents God's interests on earth?" If you answer in the negative, you will be DF'd. At the hall, the classic announcement: "So-and-so does not want to be a JW anymore," or somethng to that effect. From that moment on you will be dehumanized, as though you don't exist. I am sorry about your wife.
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132
the bible and its prophecies
by Crazyguy ini have been doing a lot of research on the bible and its roots so to speak and its becoming clearer that the jews like other races took gods and stories from others and made them their own.
its also become clear that many of the books were written later then stated, like daniel probably written about a hundred years before christ and some of it maybe even after.
but what i don't get is the prophecies.
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Vidqun
Okay, let me spell it out for you. The prophecy is mainly about the fate of “the holy city” and Daniel’s people (v. 24).
What city is being referred to? In v. 25 it is identified as Jerusalem. Are you still with me? V. 26 continues: “As for the city and the sanctuary, the people of the coming prince will destroy them.” So, the city and the sanctuary are going to be destroyed.
This is quite straightforward. No esoteric waffle here. Even if one dates the book of Daniel to 165 BCE, above prophecy is remarkably accurate, don’t you think?
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the bible and its prophecies
by Crazyguy ini have been doing a lot of research on the bible and its roots so to speak and its becoming clearer that the jews like other races took gods and stories from others and made them their own.
its also become clear that many of the books were written later then stated, like daniel probably written about a hundred years before christ and some of it maybe even after.
but what i don't get is the prophecies.
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Vidqun
Kate, I don't understand your gripe with Artaxerxes becoming king in 465 BCE and sending Nehemiah away to build Jerusalem's walls a few years later. He became king in 465 BCE and in his 20th year he sent Nehemiah to rebuild the walls. That brings one to 445 BCE, give or take a few months. This date corresponds to the calculations done by Hoehner and Feinberg.
Few historians question the authenticity of the book Nehemiah/Ezra, originally one book. Some of the edicts contained in Ezra were written in Aramaic and are viewed as originals. So whether you calculate the 70 weeks as lunar or solar years, you still come out to Jesus' ministry and death. This is what Paul Tanner had to say about Dan. 9:
Daniel 9:24-27 is “a glorious messianic revelation of the Lord Jesus Christ, announcing among other things the time of His coming and His death before the cataclysmic events of A.D. 70. The passage remains a bedrock of prophetic revelation.”1
Tanner reviewed the literature, especially the Church Fathers, even that of Jewish scholars, and this was his conclusion:
Yet from the literature that is available some vital conclusions can be drawn. All the early church fathers, along with Jewish scholars, interpreted each “week” as a period of seven years and applied this quite literally (though Origen took the final week as seventy years, i.e., a week of decades rather than years). Significantly, of the eleven early church fathers surveyed in this study all but one of them held to some form of messianic interpretation of Daniel’s prophecy (the lone exception being Hilarianus who held to a fulfillment in the time of Antiochus IV Epiphanes in the second century B.C.).2
1. J. Paul Tanner, “Is Daniel’s Seventy-Weeks Prophecy Messianic? Part 2” Bibliotheca Sacra Vol. 166 (July 3009): p. 339. Dallas, TX: Dallas Theological Seminary.
2. J. Paul Tanner, “Is Daniel’s Seventy-Weeks Prophecy Messianic? Part 1” Bibliotheca Sacra Vol. 166 (April–June 2009): p. 198. Dallas, TX: Dallas Theological Seminary.
But of course it's your choice what you want to believe. Bart Ehrman concentrates on NT textual criticism, which is negative and subjective to the extreme. If you do not supplement it with some objectivity and historical reality, your faith will be destroyed in no time. That means you have to allow for the benefit of the doubt until such time as something is proved wrong. At least Ehrman believes that Jesus did exist, but not as what he is portayed in the NT. But where do you draw the line?
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132
the bible and its prophecies
by Crazyguy ini have been doing a lot of research on the bible and its roots so to speak and its becoming clearer that the jews like other races took gods and stories from others and made them their own.
its also become clear that many of the books were written later then stated, like daniel probably written about a hundred years before christ and some of it maybe even after.
but what i don't get is the prophecies.
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Vidqun
Here’s a few different takes on the calculation of the seventy weeks. All of these scholars apply it to the Christ. The phrase “to bring in everlasting righteousness” (Dan. 9:24 ESV) can only refer to the Christ. Applying this to Antiochus IV Epiphanes is ridiculous:
Those who take the messianic view of this prophecy and who understand the time reckoning literally do not all hold to the same method of calculation. Gleason Archer and Stephen Miller believe that the sixty-nine sevens extended from the decree of Artaxerxes with Ezra about 457 BC to the commencement of Christ’s public ministry in 26/27 CE, based on solar year calculations (Gleason Archer, “Daniel,” in The Expositor’s Bible Commentary, vol. 7 [Grand Rapids: Zondervan, 1985], pp. 114-116; Stephen Miller, Daniel, New American Commentary [Nashville: Broadman & Holman, 1994], pp. 263-265). But Harold Hoehner and Paul Feinberg believe that the sixty-nine sevens extend from the decree of Artaxerxes with Nehemiah in 444 BC to the passion week of Christ in 33 CE, based on prophetic or lunar years of 360 days. With either view the effect is the same: the calculations are literally true of Christ (Hoehner, “Chronological Aspects of the Life of Christ; Part VI: Daniel’s Seventy Weeks and New Testament Chronology,” pp. 47-65; and Feinberg, “An Exegetical and Theological Study of Daniel 9:24-27,” pp. 189-220).
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132
the bible and its prophecies
by Crazyguy ini have been doing a lot of research on the bible and its roots so to speak and its becoming clearer that the jews like other races took gods and stories from others and made them their own.
its also become clear that many of the books were written later then stated, like daniel probably written about a hundred years before christ and some of it maybe even after.
but what i don't get is the prophecies.
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Vidqun
Cofty, my interpretation of Dan. 9 is Messianic, but you won't like that. So I concentrated on a part that is irrefutable, even if you want to ascribe a later date to the book. The fact that the prophecy occurs in multiple book form amongst the DSS, is indicative of an early date, as some have already mentioned. Also Daniel believed in the resurrection and the book of life, whereas Hellenistic Jews started believing in the immortality of the soul (see Maccabees, Philo). Last but not least is the Aramaic portions, written in Official Aramaic, indicating an early date for parts of Daniel. Jesus encouraged the study of the book, which Christians take to heart.
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132
the bible and its prophecies
by Crazyguy ini have been doing a lot of research on the bible and its roots so to speak and its becoming clearer that the jews like other races took gods and stories from others and made them their own.
its also become clear that many of the books were written later then stated, like daniel probably written about a hundred years before christ and some of it maybe even after.
but what i don't get is the prophecies.
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Vidqun
The prophecy of Dan. 9:26 impresses me no end.
Now after the sixty-two weeks, an anointed one will be cut off and have nothing. As for the city and the sanctuary, the people of the coming prince will destroy them. But his end will come speedily like a flood. Until the end of the war that has been decreed there will be destruction. (Dan 9:26 NET)
Modern scholars apply this prophecy to Antiochus IV Epiphanes. However, he and his hencemen might have desecrated the temple, but they never destroyed Jerusalem. Jesus correctly apply this to the Romans. Shortly after the destruction of Jerusalem in 70 CE, the Arch of Titus was erected in Rome to honor Titus. This monument is there for all to see.
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10
So THAT'S why JWs don't wear beards!
by leaving_quietly incomment by elder:.
"some people say the hebrews didn't shave, so why should we?
" then he proceeded to quote genesis 41:14:.
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Vidqun
Take note: Shaving was an EGYPTIAN (pagan) custom. On their murals, they depict themselves as bald headed and clean-shaven. When in Egypt, do as the Egyptians do.
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44
Has anyone found comfort/encouragement from "worldly songs"?
by awakening ini remember reading a thread when my exit was starting, about inspirational songs.
someone posted a link to the "shins" for a fool.
this was a surprising help to me.
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Vidqun
A lot of inspirational songs already mentioned, but two assisted me in my quest for freedom:
1) Wisemen by James Blunt. "Got to ask yourself the question: Where are you now?"
2) White Room by Cream (Eric Clapton). "In the white room with black curtains near the station..."
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39
What are the feelings/thoughts within 24-48 hours of exposure to an undeniably true (for you) TATT?
by NeverKnew inmany of us know where we were during 9/11 or when john kennedy and martin luther king were killed.. it seems that when faced with ttatt, real truth is dismissed as "ol' light" or "an imperfect group of men" but from what i gather, many of you, at some point, were hit with a component of ttatt that shattered all of those cliches that allowed you to brush off the obvious reality that something was very wrong.
some of you may remember the hours following your earliest exposures to an undeniably true tatt.
did you zone completely out?
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Vidqun
The edifice.
UN/OSCE fiasco, pedophilia, CoC, and lies,
A tidal wave of destruction.
An edifice under construction for thirty years in ruins.
As murky water dissipates, enter the light.
History and prophecy are not to be denied.
Every effort of man to emulate God and establish true worship to fail.
Brick by brick,
To start anew.
May this edifice be fire resistant and earthquake proof.