I have been doing a lot of research on the bible and its roots so to speak and its becoming clearer that the Jews like other races took gods and stories from others and made them their own. Its also become clear that many of the books were written later then stated, like Daniel probably written about a hundred years before Christ and some of it maybe even after. But what I don't get is the prophecies. Many of the book were written after the fact but were written as if they had prophesied an event so why? Why would a scribe write something about something that had already taken place but write it as though it was going to in the future? Is there any evidence of other groups in the past doing the same thing? Its interesting were they try to do this but vet it wrong. Take for instance the last king of Babylon before its capture is stated to be the son of Nebuchadnezzar but he was not. And darius did not capture Babylon in fact this darius didn't exists. So anyway your thoughts?
the bible and its prophecies
by Crazyguy 132 Replies latest watchtower bible
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processor
Well ...
1) There is some evidence that most of the Bible was written in the 7th century CE, of course based on older tales.
2) Many of the Bible's prophecies simply were not fulfilled - or does the Lion eat straw today? Does Solomon's throne still exist? Did Damascus 'cease to be a city forever'?
3) In a large number of prophecies, there are always some that come true. In Zedekiah's day there were two prophets, Jeremiah who prophesied that Babylon will destroy Jerusalem, and Hananiah who prophesied that Babylon would not destroy Jerusalem. Since Babylon destroyed Jerusalem, our Bibles have the book of Jeremiah that mentions the false prophet Hananiah. If Babylon would not have destroyed Jerusalem, likely our Bibles would have a book of Hananiah that would mention the false prophet Jeremiah.
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EndofMysteries
crazyguy - have you ever read the dead sea scrolls, book of enoch, etc? Anyway....those are known to have been done before the destruction of Jerusalem in 70CE. I've found it interesting that the curse (I think somewhere in Duet) that would go upon Israel has/had actually happened. What Jesus foretold would happen to physical Jerusalem in his generation actually happened.
I forgot offhand but was Revelation written before or after the destruction of Jerusalem in 70CE? If it was written after, then the book of Revelations references to Babylon written in Jeremiah would not make any sense at all. The book of Revelation is not a stand alone book, it's almost like an outline or key where it may say a sentence or two about something but elsewhere in the bible it has 2 chapters of details on that specific event. So Babylon falling is brief in revelation, and has about 2 chapters in Jeremiah, etc.
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villagegirl
Processor-crazyguy- Where are you getting this "history" from ?
Have you heard of the Dead Sea Scrolls ?
Written on Papyrus Parchment and Bronze,
dating back to 408 BCE ? Dated by carbon dating, and scientists.
The physical foundations of the Temple Jesus attended and read scrolls in,
is still there in Jerusalem. Have you heard of the Wailing Wall ?
I have been there. Seen it, touched it.
Right now as we speak, Jews are praying at this wall.
The Muslims built a Mosque on this Temple site.
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Captain Obvious
Congratulations CrazyGuy! Your mind is opening...
Have you read anything by Bart Ehrman? If not I recommend Jesus interrupted and Misquoting Jesus. I'm sure there are similar ones by others, but these are very good.
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cofty
Villagegirl - What prophecy do you imagine does the Dead Sea Scrolls contain?
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jam
OK folks, lets debate.....
1) Israel will prevail over its enemies (Isaiah 41:12-14..written 701-681 BC)
2)The ruins of Israel would be rebuilt. (Amos 9:11,13....written 750 BC)
3) Ezekiel prophesied for morden day Israel (Ezekiel 36:11..written 593-571 BC).
4)Tress again would grow in Isreal. (Isaiah 41:18-20...written 593-571 BC)
5)Israel's fruit would fill thw world. (Isaiah 27:6...written 701-681 BC)
6)Jerusalem would become the world's most inportant religious site.
(Micah 4:! written 750-686 BC)
7)Egypt would never again rule over other nations. (Ezekiel 29:15..written 593-571)
8) Zechariah 8: 7-8, Jews return to Jerusalem (written 520-518 BC)
What do you think????
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Crazyguy
Ok Jam not here to debate but learn, so lets ask how do we know when these books were written. Lets take the book of Daniel, I was taught as a child that this book was written near and during the Babylonian occupation. I was also taught that this book prophesied Jesus coming. Scipt forward a few decades and now many people believe the book was wriiten closer to Christ's time and some of it after. Infact the part about Jesus being prophesied is the part they think was written after. the book was never taken seriouly by the Jews either. So howmany more books are like this one?
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jam
Joking when I said debate, I'm here to learn also. Yes I was thinkng the
same, how do we know if those dates are accurate. How do we not know
when Constantine made a proposal for the canon of the Bible, some dates
were added. We do know that Constantine was more interested in bring
his kingdom togather on the same page, so whatever it takes.
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processor
1) Israel will prevail over its enemies (Isaiah 41:12-14..written 701-681 BC)
The verse says that "the men at war with you will become as something nonexistent, as nothing at all." This clearly was NOT fulfilled. Rather, Israel had become "something nonexistent" for centuries, and now it exists again but there are still many nations 'at war with them' that DO exist.
2)The ruins of Israel would be rebuilt. (Amos 9:11,13....written 750 BC)
Well, yes, this was to expect. Why should the land be devastated forever? It was obvious that at some time someone would build something there.
3) Ezekiel prophesied for morden day Israel (Ezekiel 36:11..written 593-571 BC).
Really? "Yes, I will multiply your people and your livestock; they will increase and be fruitful. And I will cause you to be inhabited as you were formerly, and I will make you prosper more than in the past"
The prophecy just says that Israel would "be inhabited." But ... if you believe in the Bible account of Solomon, that he was by far the greatest and richest king of all times of all the earth, does modern Israel really "prosper more than in the past?"
4)Tress again would grow in Isreal. (Isaiah 41:18-20...written 593-571 BC)
Ha! No one could foresee that in a land with water, trees would grow. Really. Only God could see that. ;)
5)Israel's fruit would fill thw world. (Isaiah 27:6...written 701-681 BC)
Does it? The verse actually says that their fruit would fill "the land," not "the world." Well, another thing that is not too hard to prophesy. Of course, Israel's fruit would fill Israel. Why should Germany's fruit fill Israel?
6)Jerusalem would become the world's most inportant religious site. (Micah 4:! written 750-686 BC)
The verse refers to the 'mountain of the house of JHWH', and it says that this house would be firmly established and stream there.
Obviously, there is no "house of JHWH" there today, so this is another unfulfilled prophecy.
7)Egypt would never again rule over other nations. (Ezekiel 29:15..written 593-571)
Well, they never gained their previous power. But verse 14 actually said that "they will become an insignificant kingdom," and this did not really apply during the Greek/Macedonian rule.
8) Zechariah 8: 7-8, Jews return to Jerusalem (written 520-518 BC)
Besides that this was also not too hard to prophesy, most scholars consider the prophecy written in the 4th or 3rd century BC.