Posts by Vidqun

28

Best scriptures for countering TOMO III's comment about "inactive ones"??

by DATA-DOG in

what do you say, bible gurus???

a relative asked me what i thought of the zone visit.

i am in the process of gathering my thoughts.

Vidqun

Phizzy, this the one you're thinking of. The last two verses are quite ironic, especially verse 42. I wonder how many he stumbled with his opinions.

38 John said to him, Teacher, we saw a certain man expelling demons by the use of your name and we tried to prevent him, because he was not accompanying us.

39 But Jesus said, Do not try to prevent him, for there is no one that will do a powerful work on the basis of my name that will quickly be able to revile me;

40 for he that is not against us is for us.

41 For whoever gives YOU a cup of water to drink on the ground that YOU belong to Christ, I truly tell YOU, he will by no means lose his reward.

42 But whoever stumbles one of these little ones that believe, it would be finer for him if a millstone such as is turned by an ass were put around his neck and he were actually pitched into the sea.

(Mar 9:38-42 NWT)

28

Best scriptures for countering TOMO III's comment about "inactive ones"??

by DATA-DOG in

what do you say, bible gurus???

a relative asked me what i thought of the zone visit.

i am in the process of gathering my thoughts.

Vidqun

DD, this point is discussed under the thread “Inactive ones are bloodguilty?” Here’s my contribution, with a few additional points added.

As usual, their application is all wrong. He was talking to the Israelite watchman, standing guard (Ezek. 33:6). The next chapter [34] is a prophecy against the "shepherds of Israel." Interestingly, here he makes a division between "a lean sheep and a plump sheep, between rams and he-goats," and mentions that God's judgment would be directed against the plump sheep (Ezek. 34:17, 20).

Here one reads of the function of an Israelite watchman – 2 Sam. 18:24; 2 Kings 9:17. Reason it out: Would it make sense to use a fainthearted, weak or sleepy (= inactive) person as a watchman? A fearful or fainthearted person was not even allowed to join their army. They were sent home in case they demoralized their fellow-soldiers (Deut. 20:8).

So, the Ezekiel watchman scenario is very far removed from the tasks of a Christian evangelizer. It is rather directed at the leaders of God's people. Ezekiel was appointed as watchman to warn his people of their impending destruction because of their unfaithfulness (Ezek. 3:17 NET). Had he not done so, he would have incurred bloodguilt.

Watchtower theology also distinguishes between “anointed ones” and the “other sheep.” The watchman, an Israelite, had to warn fellow Israelites, which makes it an internal (Israelite) matter. So also, a spiritual Israelite(s) should warn his brothers (fellow spiritual Israelites) if/when they went wrong.

This is why they should rather apply this internally, e.g., some of those sounding the alarm, after finding out about the Society's involvement with the UN/OSCE, would warn “their brothers.” These were persecuted, either being silenced or kicked out of the congregation. So the application is much closer to home than they think and has nothing to do with inactive ones.

25

Inactive ones are bloodguilty?

by dissonance_resolved in

i've been thinking about brother morris' statement at the zone meeting this past weekend that inactive ones are bloodguilty.

bloodguilt is defined as "guilty of murder or manslaughter.

" murder is #1 on the list of disfellowshipping offenses- all they would have to do is change the wording from "murder" to "bloodguilt" and suddenly there you have grounds to disfellowship anyone who's inactive.

Vidqun

As usual, their application is all wrong. He was talking to the Israelite watchman, standing guard (Ezek. 33:6). The next chapter [34] is a prophecy against the "shepherds of Israel." Interestingly, here he makes a division between "a lean sheep and a plump sheep, between rams and he-goats," and mentions that God's judgment would be directed against the plump sheep (Ezek. 34:17, 20).

Such a scenario is very far removed from the tasks of a Christian evangelizer. It is rather directed at the leaders of God's people. Ezekiel functioned as watchman and warned them of their impending destruction because of their unfaithfulness. Had he not done so, he would have incurred bloodguilt. Similarly today, some of those sounding the alarm, after finding out about the Society's involvement with the UN/OSCE, were either silenced or kicked out of the congregation. So the application is much closer to home than they think and has nothing to do with inactive ones.

26

Year 3: Personal Experiences

by Londo111 in

jw
friends

http://youtu.be/nnnabt9x5lm?list=plynx0om_bmgdobkrzev2tax1jzdquagy8.

this is my third year since i signed up on jwn and i wanted to do something a bit different--a slight unmasking of sorts and greet everyone face to face.

even with the help of a few notes, this is rambling, raw, and by no means the best personal experience video out there.

Vidqun

Londo, I appreciated your video. Certainly not making an idiot of yourself. With your heart on your sleeve, that takes guts, believe me. Hopefully I will also be able to do that one day. Speak my mind and get a few weighty things off my chest.

Just one observation. I spent a few years in London, and experienced the "London hospitality" of the congregations first hand. I made very few friends there. I did field service with a brother, a MS pioneer. I thought it went well. At the next assembly, this brother would not acknowledge my existence (must have said something wrong somewhere along the line). But lo and behold, when he came on a bike trip to my part of the world, he contacted me for a place to stay. Fortunately I was not at home and could not offer him hospitality. Nevertheless, I came to the conclusion, if you're looking for justice, you've come to the wrong place (Dwarf in the Game of Thrones), also if you look for love in the congregation of JW, you've come to the wrong place.

47

preface question:

by mohrb in

order of operations is important, so, i'll ask a question before i make assumptions and start "fixing things.".

obviously, the site heavily encourages the viewpoint of former j-dubs and others who have disagreements with the political posturing of the wbts.

i get that, and see your points.

Vidqun

Mohrb, I must commend you for your positive attitude, unrealistic though it is. First of all, you seem to have a problem with the word “arrogant.” Allow me to clarify its meaning. According to above posts, who do you think fits the following definition to a T?

ar•ro•gance

14th century : an attitude of superiority manifested in an overbearing manner or in presumptuous claims or assumptions[1]

Within this context, there’s three things you can clear up for me. 1) Who is the ultimate judge and who did he appoint to judge? When will Jesus’ brothers start judging? 2) What is your understanding of two phrases, a) “the disgusting thing causing desolation” and b) “the beast that ascends out of the abyss.” What is the definition of Christian neutrality? How do you view the UN/OSCE? 3) Lastly, is the “two witness rule,” originating with Mosaic law. Are Christians bound by the Mosaic law? Thanks in anticipation for you attention.

[1] Merriam-Webster, I. (2003). Merriam-Webster’s collegiate dictionary. (Eleventh ed.). Springfield, MA: Merriam-Webster, Inc.

47

preface question:

by mohrb in

order of operations is important, so, i'll ask a question before i make assumptions and start "fixing things.".

obviously, the site heavily encourages the viewpoint of former j-dubs and others who have disagreements with the political posturing of the wbts.

i get that, and see your points.

Vidqun

Really Mohrb! Many of us have spoken up and have been disfellowshipped. So, welcome to the real world. You speak against the decisions of the GB, you will be disfellowshipped. You speak about your concerns to the elders. You will be disfellowshipped. You speak to your brothers and sisters, you will eventually be disfellowshipped. Have you heard the expression: Don't paint a sinking ship. Biblically speaking: That which is crooked, cannot be made straight (Eccl. 1:15).

14

He Got Reinstated . . .

by Hamahead in

jw
friends

feeling low today.

i haven't posted for a long time (forgotten log in details = new username) i'm in a good place with my family now and have built a life outside the religion.. today i found out a good friend has gone back and got himself reinstated to be able to have contact with his elderly mother.

that is the only reason apparently.

Vidqun

You should sympathize with him and feel sorry for him. Think of how he must suffer, sitting through a meeting, an assembly, even knocking on doors... knowing TTATT.

15

Keeping up with Jehovahs chariot?

by Vidqun in

witnesses are quick to remind us to keep up with jehovahs chariot.

perhaps they should examine the context of the chariot, mentioned by ezekiel.

they always quote the first part (ezek.

Vidqun

Witnesses are quick to remind us to keep up with Jehovah’s chariot. Perhaps they should examine the context of the chariot, mentioned by Ezekiel. They always quote the first part (Ezek. 1 ). Perhaps one should remind them of the second part ( Ezek. 10 ), where it is moving away from the temple and Jerusalem because of the bad things happening in the city. Does that sound familiar? Lesson for us: Perhaps now is a good time to follow Jehovah’s chariot and get the hell out of Dodge!

36

I'm tired of the org misquoting scholars to support there heretical NWT

by yogosans14 in

day after day jws are constantly fighting with me over the internet that the nwt is the most accurate translation and then they prove it by quoting scholars from the watchtower magazines.

they tell me i'm biased and there rendering of john 1:1 as "a god" is approved by scholars but i have researched there so called "supporters" and i have found they have tooken what they said out of context to twist the scriptures to there liking.. .

dr. julius r. mantey (who is even recognized by the watchtower as a greek scholar since they quote his book on page 1158 of their kingdom interlinear translation): calls the watchtower translation of john 1:1 "a grossly misleading translation.

Vidqun

Yes, the Society do cherry-pick quotes that suit them and their agenda. But in this case, I agree with Wonderment. Things are not that simple. I think Mantey did not want to be associated with a cult, so one can sympathize with his situation. But he was certainly biased and not exactly truthful.

In the eighties, while a Witness, I had a few useful discussions with two theological students, concerning a few problematic scriptures, John 1:1, amongst others. After the discussion, one informed me of one of their Greek textbooks that agreed with my stance as a Witness. He actually gave me a copy of the book. In it there’s an interesting footnote:

In ancient manuscripts which did not differentiate between capital and small letters, there would be no way of distinguishing between Өεὸς (‘God’) and θεὸς (‘god’). Therefore as far as grammar alone is concerned, such a sentence could be printed θεὸς ἦν ὁ λόγος, which would mean either, ‘The Word is a god,’ or ‘The Word is the god.’ The interpretation of John 1.1 will depend upon whether or not the writer is held to believe in only one God or in more than one god. It will be noticed that above rules for the special uses of the definite article are none of them rigid and without exceptions. It is wiser not to use them as a basis for theological argument until the student has reached an advanced stage in the knowledge of the language. For a full treatment, see Blass-Debrunner-Funk, A Greek Grammar of the New Testament, Part III, 8, esp. para. 273; Moulton-Turner, A Grammar of New Testament Greek, III, 182 ff. [1]

[1] J. W. Wenham, The Elements of New Testament Greek, Cambridge University Press, p. 35, footnote 2.

23

China overtakes U.S. as the the world's largest economy'--WT predictions upside down?

by exWTslave in

china overtakes u.s. as the the world's largest economy': imf says.*.

again problem for writing committee of jws?

after ussr disintegration, jws said: now we have only one world power (south king) on the world scene, and north king will appear in its own time, may be as one of the former ussr state or as some other communist country.. but now equations are now totally upside downwith a communist country replacing the south kings as the world power!?.

Vidqun

Metatron, China's national debt is only $5 trillion, which is nicely balanced out by her foreign reserves, about $4 trillion. The US national debt is moving towards $18 trillion. Surprisingly, Japan's national debt of $13 trillion is the worst.