Posts by Vidqun

13

Martin Armstrong's latest book, 'The Plot to Seize Russia'

by was a new boy in

the 2015 documentary - 'the forecaster' was basically banned in usa.

so martin leased a movie theater in cherry hill nj and showed it himself.. 'a german tv station funded the 2015 documentary on me entitled the forecaster.

because it raised some of these issues back then, the film was banned in the united states as well as switzerland...'.

Vidqun

https://www.zerohedge.com/political/wikipedia-co-founder-describes-us-intelligence-manipulation-worlds-largest-online

Interesting topic. Yes, Wikipedia is completely compromised. And Putin did warn that if the existence of Russia or the Russian way of life are threatened, he will respond with nuclear weapons. These US neocons, wanting to take down Putin and Russia, are lunatics. They should all be kept in an lunatic asylum. Even better, they should be put out of their misery on a permanent basis. And as an example of uneven judgment by a DoJ run by neocons: Trump and Julian Assange vs. Biden crime family.

72

Romans 9:5

by aqwsed12345 in

na28: ὧν οἱ πατέρες καὶ ἐξ ὧν ὁ χριστὸς τὸ κατὰ σάρκα, ὁ ὢν ἐπὶ πάντων θεὸς εὐλογητὸς εἰς τοὺς αἰῶνας, ἀμήν.. na28 transliterated: hō̃n hoi patéres kaì ex hō̃n ho khristòs tò katà sárka, ho ṑn epì pántōn theòs eulogētòs eis toùs aiō̃nas, amḗn.. kit: .

nwt: to them the forefathers belong, and from them the christ descended according to the flesh.

god, who is over all, be praised forever.

Vidqun

Aqwsed, here's a few thoughts to contemplate. No man (human) can see God and survive (Ex. 33:20; Deut. 10:10; John 1:18; 6:46; 1 John 4:12).

Sign of son of man (spirit is invisible), so a sign is needed: Matt. 24:30

To confirm: “Thus it is written, "The first man Adam became a living being"; the last Adam became a life-giving spirit.” (1 Cor. 15:45 ESV)

"and to the assembly of the firstborn who are enrolled in heaven, and to God, the judge of all, and to the spirits of the righteous made perfect," (Heb. 12:23 ESV)

The argumentation of Paul in 1 Cor. 15:37ff. is quite clear. This is figurative language. E.g., "seed" and "body." And as discussed earlier, "son of man" is a self-designated title.

John 2:19-22 clearly means the resurrection of Jesus' body to life, not his re-creation as a spirit. And if he rose with his body, he also ascended with it. And this does not merely prove that His real body will be resurrected, but also that also He will do it as well. How else could he say a parable about rebuilding (which cannot be a passive role) the temple himself?
“Touch me and see, for a spirit does not have flesh and bones as you see I have” (Luke 24:39).

This cannot be the same body that he died with. Jesus had to offer up his original body as sacrifice which he cannot take back (Hebr. 2:17; 9:26; 10:10).

1 Peter 3:18 - "but made alive in the Spirit." - This does not mean that he became an angel (spirit), but that he was resurrected by the (Holy) Spirit. The preposition "in" is often understood in the sense of "by" (cf. "all things were created in him", Col 1:16) He was raised "in the Spirit", but not "as a spirit." In Romans 8:9 all the believers in Rome are said to be "in the Spirit." Were they spirit creatures? The expression "in the Spirit" simply means "in the power of the [Holy] Spirit." First Peter 3:18 demonstrates that the Holy Spirit raised Jesus from the dead and quickened him.

You are misreading what was said. You left out an important phrase: “in the flesh,” and “in the spirit.” You want it to read “in the flesh” but “by the spirit.” Why?

"Flesh and blood cannot inherit the Kingdom of God" (1 Corinthians 15:50).

The expression "flesh and blood" occurs only five times in the New Testament. We must derive our definition of its meaning from these occurrences. Webster's Dictionary is of no use here. Examine the following references and see if the writers are not just as often speaking of "flesh and blood" as being "fallen man" as they are of the physical body. You might try substituting the words "fallen man" in the place of "flesh and blood."

Dictionary definition does not agree with your definition of "fallen man":

The material that covers the bones of a human or animal body, flesh lit. 1 Cor 15:39abcd; Hv 3, 10, 4; 3, 12, 1. The pl. (which denotes flesh in the mass. For Mt 16:17; Gal 1:16; Eph 6:12; and 1 Cor 15:50.

1. The physical body as functioning entity, body, physical body

a. as substance and living entity

b. as something with physical limitations, life here on earth

c. as instrument of various actions or expressions.

of human beings in contrast to lit. blood as basic component of an organism, blood

a. of human beings in contrast to gods: (αἷμα καὶ σάρκας ἔχοντες

of souls σαρκὶ καὶ αἵμ. βεβαπτισμέναι) Mt 16:17; 1 Cor 15:50; Gal 1:16; Eph 6:12. See BDAG.

Genesis 6:2 - here the "sons of God" are not angels, but pious people, men of the tribe of Seth, the Setites, and by "daughters of men" we must mean the daughters of the tribe of Cain. Angels cannot concieve children, as some superstitions believed in the Middle Ages, since they are pure spirits. If, therefore, the angels appear in visible form (angelophaniae) according to the presentation of the Scriptures, this body of theirs is only apparent.

See references to "Sons of God" in OT: Job 38:7; Ps. 86:6; cf. Job 1:6. These are angels with the ability to materialize as humans. Lots of Biblical examples of that.

72

Romans 9:5

by aqwsed12345 in

na28: ὧν οἱ πατέρες καὶ ἐξ ὧν ὁ χριστὸς τὸ κατὰ σάρκα, ὁ ὢν ἐπὶ πάντων θεὸς εὐλογητὸς εἰς τοὺς αἰῶνας, ἀμήν.. na28 transliterated: hō̃n hoi patéres kaì ex hō̃n ho khristòs tò katà sárka, ho ṑn epì pántōn theòs eulogētòs eis toùs aiō̃nas, amḗn.. kit: .

nwt: to them the forefathers belong, and from them the christ descended according to the flesh.

god, who is over all, be praised forever.

Vidqun

"Because Christ also suffered once for sins, the just for the unjust, to bring you to God, by being put to death in the flesh but by being made alive in the spirit." (1 Pet. 3:18 NET)

Spirit beings have the ability to take on a human form (cf. Gen. 19:1; 28:1). This ability was taken away from the disobedient angels (Gen. 6:2; cf. 2 Pet. 2:4). So, your "man" is Jesus Christ. He can take on a human form at any time. And he can also be referred to as a "man" or "son of man" because he did spend time on earth as a man. In addition, blood and flesh cannot inherit the kingdom (1Cor 15:44, 50).

72

Romans 9:5

by aqwsed12345 in

na28: ὧν οἱ πατέρες καὶ ἐξ ὧν ὁ χριστὸς τὸ κατὰ σάρκα, ὁ ὢν ἐπὶ πάντων θεὸς εὐλογητὸς εἰς τοὺς αἰῶνας, ἀμήν.. na28 transliterated: hō̃n hoi patéres kaì ex hō̃n ho khristòs tò katà sárka, ho ṑn epì pántōn theòs eulogētòs eis toùs aiō̃nas, amḗn.. kit: .

nwt: to them the forefathers belong, and from them the christ descended according to the flesh.

god, who is over all, be praised forever.

Vidqun

Aqwsed, unfortunately Rom. 9:5 is not as clear cut as you make out. You have given one side of the argument, so I won't go into it. Grammar, Paul's theology and scribal error should all be weighed up for each to come to his own conclusion. The following is Rom. 9:5. Footnote 1 in Metzger's commentary:

Among many earlier discussions pro and con, two may be singled out for special mention as representative of the two points of view. In favor of taking the words as an ascription to Christ, see William Sanday and A. C. Headlam, A Critical and Exegetical Commentary on the Epistle to the Romans, 2nd ed. (New York, 1896), pp. 233–238; in favor of taking the words separately from the preceding clause, see Ezra Abbot, “On the Construction of Romans ix.5,” Journal of the Society of Biblical Literature and Exegesis, 1881, pp. 87–154, and idem, “Recent Discussions of Romans ix.5,” ibid., 1883, pp. 90–112 (both articles are reprinted in Abbot’s posthumously published volume entitled, The Authorship of the Fourth Gospel and Other Critical Essays [Boston, 1888], pp. 332–410, and 411–438). For a more recent discussion, see the present writer’s contribution to Christ and Spirit in the New Testament; Studies in honour of C. F. D. Moule, ed. by Barnabas Lindars and Stephen S. Smalley (Cambridge University Press, 1973), pp. 95–112; reprinted in Metzger’s New Testament Studies (Leiden, 1980), pp. 56–74.

On the other hand, in the opinion of others of the Committee, none of these considerations seemed to be decisive, particularly since nowhere else in his genuine epistles does Paul ever designate ὁ Χριστός as θεός. In fact, on the basis of the general tenor of his theology it was considered tantamount to impossible that Paul would have expressed Christ’s greatness by calling him God blessed for ever.

Bruce Manning Metzger, United Bible Societies, A Textual Commentary on the Greek New Testament, Second Edition a Companion Volume to the United Bible Societies’ Greek New Testament (4th Rev. Ed.) (London; New York: United Bible Societies, 1994), 459–462.

On the other hand, Paul nowhere else in his genuine epistles (that is, the letters which scholars agree were written by Paul; Titus 2:13 is generally regarded as not written by Paul) ever designates ὁ Χριστὸς as θεός. On the basis of the general perspective of Paul’s theology, it is difficult to think that Paul would have expressed Christ’s greatness by calling him God blessed for ever.

It is also possible that a copyist accidentally wrote ὁ ὥν (the one being) for ὧν ὁ (of whom). That is, the original text may have read “4 … of whom the sonship (ὧν ἡ υἱοθεσία), the glory … 5 of whom the patriarchs (ὧν οἱ πατέρες), and from whom (ἐξ ὧν) the Messiah according to the flesh, of whom God over all (ὧν ὁ ἐπὶ πάντων θεός).…” This punctuation “would make Paul assert that Christ by natural descent is a prerogative of Israel, but that God is the one who is preeminent and blest forever, in effect, Israel’s ninth prerogative” (Fitzmyer, p. 549). It should be noted, however, that there is no evidence in the manuscripts to support such a correction of the text.

Roger L. Omanson and Bruce Manning Metzger, A Textual Guide to the Greek New Testament: An Adaptation of Bruce M. Metzger’s Textual Commentary for the Needs of Translators (Stuttgart: Deutsche Bibelgesellschaft, 2006), 308–310.

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Abaddon the destroyer is he Jesus?

by ExBethelitenowPIMA in

rev 9:11 the angel with the key to the abyss is called abaddon which means destroyer.. the cross references show jw doctrine teaches he is jesus himself using the account in luke where jesus got the demons out of that girl and they said don’t throw us into the abyss.

and revalation 20:1 shows an angel with the key to the abyss.. either watchtower are right and it’s jesus or there are more than one angel with the key to the abyss.. if it is jesus the destroyer of souls it sounds like conan the destroyer.. from the research guide-abaddon, the angel of the abyss—who is he?.

at revelation 9:11, however, the word “abaddon” is used as the name of “the angel of the abyss.” the corresponding greek name apollyon means “destroyer.” in the 19th century there were efforts made to show that this text prophetically applied to individuals such as emperor vespasian, muhammad, and even napoleon, and the angel was generally regarded as “satanic.” it should be noted, however, that at revelation 20:1-3 the angel having “the key of the abyss” is shown to be god’s representative from heaven, and rather than being “satanic,” he binds and hurls satan into the abyss.

Vidqun

ExBethelite, no what I mean is, if Satan had control over the keys, as Aqwsed suggests. But according to available evidence, the angel with the keys is as yet unnamed. Yes, it could be Jesus, after he was resurrected (cf. Rom. 10:7).

And I saw a star that had fallen from heaven to the earth, and the key of the pit of the abyss was given him. (Rev. 9:1 NWT)

Aqwsed: According to Rev. 12,9, Satan is cast down to earth, and power is given to him to bring about ruin, and Christ Himself sees Satan fall like lightning from heaven (Luke. 10,18). Therefore, the star mentioned here is Satan, so the meaning of the verse is this: The fifth punishment consists in the power given to Satan to release the spirits of hell for the ruin of people.

30

Abaddon the destroyer is he Jesus?

by ExBethelitenowPIMA in

rev 9:11 the angel with the key to the abyss is called abaddon which means destroyer.. the cross references show jw doctrine teaches he is jesus himself using the account in luke where jesus got the demons out of that girl and they said don’t throw us into the abyss.

and revalation 20:1 shows an angel with the key to the abyss.. either watchtower are right and it’s jesus or there are more than one angel with the key to the abyss.. if it is jesus the destroyer of souls it sounds like conan the destroyer.. from the research guide-abaddon, the angel of the abyss—who is he?.

at revelation 9:11, however, the word “abaddon” is used as the name of “the angel of the abyss.” the corresponding greek name apollyon means “destroyer.” in the 19th century there were efforts made to show that this text prophetically applied to individuals such as emperor vespasian, muhammad, and even napoleon, and the angel was generally regarded as “satanic.” it should be noted, however, that at revelation 20:1-3 the angel having “the key of the abyss” is shown to be god’s representative from heaven, and rather than being “satanic,” he binds and hurls satan into the abyss.

Vidqun

Aqwsed,

What should be kept in mind is that the book of Revelation was written by a Jew and has a predominantly Semitic background. The origin of the Hebrew name Abaddon should bring us closer to what John meant.

This is why I stick to the interpretation of Hebrew “Abaddon.”

I believe the star falling from the sky is an angel. By the way, it fell and was not cast down. Big difference (cf. Rev. 1:16, 20). And why would God allow Satan the keys of the abyss? Won’t help locking him in the abyss if he has the keys. He would also not allow Jesus to be resurrected if he was in control of the keys (cf. Rom. 10:7; Rev. 20:1, 2).

Also don’t think God would involve Himself with Astrology. God hates astrologers and their craft. He will never use astrological signs as a means of fulfilling prophecy (cf. Is. 47:13, 14 NJB; Jer. 10:2 CJB).

Five months is not exactly “a while.” I’d say an hour or half an hour is “a while” (cf. Rev. 8:1). I believe it to be a literal 5 months. After five months it would be a good idea to get out of the cities (cf. Rev. 11:13; 16:19).

I don’t view Sheol, Gehenna as “hell.” It’s a theological construct of Christendom. You are actually saying, as many theologians do, that God is going to use demon hordes to do His will, execute His judgment and fulfill prophecy. I don’t see that at all.

EasyPrompt,

I agree. For Abaddon, I put my money on Satan. And the locust-scorpions are the troops of the beast from the abyss, which is the UN. I prefer to keep the Anglo-American world power (beast from the earth/false prophet) and the UN (beast from the abyss) separate. At the end both will be thrown in the lake of fire (cf. Rev. 19:20).

Dan. 2 Ten toes of iron and clay (all the nations) = Ten horns/kings of Revelation (Rev. 17:12, 16) all concentrated in the UN (beast from the abyss).

Perhaps one should not be too dogmatic in this instance. You take the basis for your understanding the creative days. So, do you believe these are 24h days? I believe these are not supposed to be taken literally (cf. Gen. 2:4).

As for the ten horns, ten kings will rise up out of that kingdom; and still another one will rise up after them, and he will be different from the first ones, and he will humiliate three kings.

Here I go with the Society. Three kings, Spain, France and the Netherlands crushed by the British Empire, becoming the Anglo-American world power during World War I.

I see you’re still stuck with Watchtower theology as regards the destruction of Babylon the Great. This will occur at the end of the tribulation (not the beginning). See Rev. 16:19.

Jesus said: “and they will fall by the edge of the sword and be led captive into all the nations; and Jerusalem will be trampled on by the nations, until the appointed times of the nations [“times of the Gentiles,” ESV, NET] are fulfilled” (Luke 21:24). The “appointed times of the nations” are to be fulfilled when Jesus, who has the legal right, receives his kingship, this time in a heavenly setting (cf. Dan. 7:13, 14; cf. Rev. 11:2, 15, 18). I would not put a time limit on this.

"But as for the courtyard that is outside the temple sanctuary, leave it out and do not measure it, because it has been given to the nations, and they will trample the holy city underfoot for 42 months." (Revelation 11:1, 2).

Let’s first identify the temple. This is all of God’s people on earth (Gal. 6:15, 16; cf. 1 Cor. 3:16, 17; 2 Cor. 6:16; Eph. 2:21, 22). The temple will be measured, meaning God takes ownership of it. It will remain intact through the tribulation (Rev. 7:9,14). The courtyard will be trampled by the nations for 42 months. This is where the dining rooms of the priests are situated. They will be persecuted till the end of the tribulation. Half of them will be killed, other half will be fetched by Jesus after the tribulation (cf. Ezek. 42:1; Dan. 12:7; Matt. 24:29, 31). This will take place during the second half of the tribulation.

ExBethelite,

No, I disagree. Jesus is to become king of the Messianic kingdom over the earth. God is Sovereign of the Universe.

God’s kingship of the universe is to time indefinite, even forever (Ps. 10:16a; 29:10b; 146:10 NW; Jer. 10:7, 10; Zech. 14:9, 17; 1 Tim. 1:17; cf. Rev. 15:3; 19:6). Jesus’ Messianic kingship is to have an enduring future, i.e., a thousand years (Ps. 45:6, 17; 1 Cor. 15:24-28; Rev. 20:3, 4).

30

Abaddon the destroyer is he Jesus?

by ExBethelitenowPIMA in

rev 9:11 the angel with the key to the abyss is called abaddon which means destroyer.. the cross references show jw doctrine teaches he is jesus himself using the account in luke where jesus got the demons out of that girl and they said don’t throw us into the abyss.

and revalation 20:1 shows an angel with the key to the abyss.. either watchtower are right and it’s jesus or there are more than one angel with the key to the abyss.. if it is jesus the destroyer of souls it sounds like conan the destroyer.. from the research guide-abaddon, the angel of the abyss—who is he?.

at revelation 9:11, however, the word “abaddon” is used as the name of “the angel of the abyss.” the corresponding greek name apollyon means “destroyer.” in the 19th century there were efforts made to show that this text prophetically applied to individuals such as emperor vespasian, muhammad, and even napoleon, and the angel was generally regarded as “satanic.” it should be noted, however, that at revelation 20:1-3 the angel having “the key of the abyss” is shown to be god’s representative from heaven, and rather than being “satanic,” he binds and hurls satan into the abyss.

Vidqun

small horn/fierce king = Anglo-American world power

transgression causing desolation (disgusting thing causing desolation) = UN

I'm off to bed. We can take it up tomorrow if you don't mind.

30

Abaddon the destroyer is he Jesus?

by ExBethelitenowPIMA in

rev 9:11 the angel with the key to the abyss is called abaddon which means destroyer.. the cross references show jw doctrine teaches he is jesus himself using the account in luke where jesus got the demons out of that girl and they said don’t throw us into the abyss.

and revalation 20:1 shows an angel with the key to the abyss.. either watchtower are right and it’s jesus or there are more than one angel with the key to the abyss.. if it is jesus the destroyer of souls it sounds like conan the destroyer.. from the research guide-abaddon, the angel of the abyss—who is he?.

at revelation 9:11, however, the word “abaddon” is used as the name of “the angel of the abyss.” the corresponding greek name apollyon means “destroyer.” in the 19th century there were efforts made to show that this text prophetically applied to individuals such as emperor vespasian, muhammad, and even napoleon, and the angel was generally regarded as “satanic.” it should be noted, however, that at revelation 20:1-3 the angel having “the key of the abyss” is shown to be god’s representative from heaven, and rather than being “satanic,” he binds and hurls satan into the abyss.

Vidqun

One evening plus one morning equals one day. 2,300 evenings and mornings is the same as 1,150 mornings plus 1,150 evenings, which is the same as 1,150 days.

One problem with your interpretation. There's an evening and a morning, but there is no afternoon. So, here's another way to look at it. One evening-morning is therefore 18/24 hours = ¾ of a day. 2300 evening-morning x ¾ = 1725 days:

Vision of the 2,300 evening-morning: The small horn/fierce king[1] is to act arrogantly against the Prince of the army,[2] from whom the continuity is to be removed and whose sanctuary is to be thrown down (v. 11).[3] An army is defeated and the continuity disrupted (v. 12)[4] because of cooperation between the small horn/fierce king (vv. 9, 23) and the transgression causing desolation (v. 13).[5] Only after 2,300 evening-morning time units[6] (v. 14a, 26) will the holy place or sanctuary be restored to its rightful state, meaning the leadership of God’s people will be reinstated and true worship re-established (v. 14b).[7]

[1] These represent the Anglo-American world power, later identified as King of the South (cf. Dan. 8:9, 10, 19; 11:27-40). Again, the described course of events is from the perspective of King of the South (Dan. 11:40; cf. Rev. 13:11-13). As master of intrigue he will be removing the constant feature by cunning legal strategy, shrewdness and deception (Dan. 8:23-25; cf. Ps. 94:20).

[2] This means he will be taking on the Prince of the army, Jesus Christ himself. There can only be one outcome (Rev. 16:14, 16; 19:11-21; cf. Dan 8:25).

[3] Constant [feature]: The continuity (BDBLex) or regular offering (HALOT) here means the good deeds of God’s people during the Tribulation period (Rom. 10:10-15; cf. Hebr. 13:10-16). The sanctuary means the leaders of God’s people. Their freedom will be curtailed and their good works and holy sacrifices will be trampled upon (1 Cor. 3:16, 17; Eph. 2:21, 22; 1 Pet. 2:5-9; cf. Rev. 11:2).

[4] This is God’s army of evangelizers bringing the good news of the Messianic kingdom to the nations (cf. Ps. 68:11; 110:3). God temporarily abandons the army and sanctuary because of transgression, allowing them to be overrun by those who oppose true worship.

[5] This corrupt entity, the UN, is a transgressor of cultic law, thus God’s Law (HALOT). The transgression causing desolation lives up to its name, causing physical and spiritual ruin (Rev. 13:16, 17; 14:9-11; cf. Dan. 8:12; Is. 24:19, 20; 59:12-15; Lam. 3:8, 9, 42-45). In the near future all such corrupting influences are to be removed along with the transgressors (Dan. 8:13, 23; Rev. 17:13, 14; 19:11-21; cf. Dan. 9:24).

[6] Evening-morning: 1) The two nouns are singular. 2) Lit. an “evening-morning” time unit (not time, year or day), resulting in a most unusual time scale. 3) Evening in Hebrew means when the sun goes down. Morning means first light, when the sun comes up, until midday when the sun is at its zenith. Afternoon, when the day starts to fade, is not part of the equation. 4) One evening-morning is therefore 18/24 hours = ¾ of a day. 2300 evening-morning x ¾ = 1725 days. This literal interpretation does not deviate from Hebrew usage (Ex. 12:6, 10; 16:8-13; 27:21a; cf. 1 Kings 17:6).

[7] Then the sanctuary will be cleansed (NKJ) or reconsecrated (NIV) according to Ezek. 43. After having been trampled by the nations, those taking the lead in true worship of the Almighty God will be reinstated.

30

Abaddon the destroyer is he Jesus?

by ExBethelitenowPIMA in

rev 9:11 the angel with the key to the abyss is called abaddon which means destroyer.. the cross references show jw doctrine teaches he is jesus himself using the account in luke where jesus got the demons out of that girl and they said don’t throw us into the abyss.

and revalation 20:1 shows an angel with the key to the abyss.. either watchtower are right and it’s jesus or there are more than one angel with the key to the abyss.. if it is jesus the destroyer of souls it sounds like conan the destroyer.. from the research guide-abaddon, the angel of the abyss—who is he?.

at revelation 9:11, however, the word “abaddon” is used as the name of “the angel of the abyss.” the corresponding greek name apollyon means “destroyer.” in the 19th century there were efforts made to show that this text prophetically applied to individuals such as emperor vespasian, muhammad, and even napoleon, and the angel was generally regarded as “satanic.” it should be noted, however, that at revelation 20:1-3 the angel having “the key of the abyss” is shown to be god’s representative from heaven, and rather than being “satanic,” he binds and hurls satan into the abyss.

Vidqun

EasyPrompt, don't you think God works in sevens? 3 1/2 years + 3 1/2 years = 7 years. 2300 evening-mornings is not equal to 3 1/2 years, no matter how you work it out. Take also as an example the period mentioned at Daniel 12:11, 12. 1290 day + 1335 days = 2625 days. I view it as follows:

Daniel (7:24, 25[1]; 12:7[2]) mentions “a time, times and half a time.” Revelation (11:2, 3; 12:6, 14[3]) breaks it up into different modes of time: Time, times and half a time = 3½ years = 42 months = 1,260 days. From there, 7 years = 84 months = 2,520 days (cf. 4:25). Thus, 1 year = 360 days. All the days, times and weeks found in the books of Daniel and Revelation are connected to a half or full Heptad. Time, times and half a time = Half a Heptad. This means unfinished business (cf. Dan. 9:27; Rev. 11:11).[4]

“Go through the city, through Jerusalem, and put a mark on the foreheads of the men who are sighing and groaning over all the detestable things that are being done in the city."

Don't think you should apply this to the great tribulation as above sentence indicates.

[1] Aramaic year:) עִדָּןJArm., Syr., Heb. (מוֹעֵד Da 725, Sept. ἔτο῍ Da 416.32.34, Josephus Antiquities xii 7: 6 :: Vulgate tempus/tempora, so also Sept. καιρό῍καιροί 725 127; שִׁבְעָה עִדָּנִין Da 413.20.22.29, וּפְלַג עִדָּן עַד עִדָּן וְעִדָּנִין 725 meaning three and a half years (Bentzen 34, 67; Plöger KAT xviii: 105; see also 115f, 143). † See HALOT.

[2] Hebrew year: מוֹעֵד: מֹעֲדִיםוָחֵצִילְם׳ a time, times and a half Da 127 )as BArm. עִדָּן 2, meaning a year(. See HALOT.

[3] The expr. καιρὸν καὶ καιροὺς κ. ἥμισυ καιροῦ also belongs to the eschatol. vocab.; it means the apocalyptic time of 1 + 2 + ½ = 3½ years. See BDAG. καιρόν καί καιρούς καί ἥμισυ καιροῦ, a year and two years and six months (A. V. a time, and times, and half a time; cf. Winer’s Grammar, sec. 27, 4), Rev. 12:14 (cf. 6; from Dan. 7:25; 12:7). See Thayer.

[4] Gabriele Boccaccini, in the article “The Solar Calendars of Daniel and Enoch,” suggests that the writer of Daniel used a solar calendar, consisting of a thirty-day month x 12 = 360 day year + 4 intercalary times (i.e., the equinoxes and solstices) that were added between seasons but not counted in the reckoning of the days of the year. See The Book of Daniel: Composition and Reception. Volume 2. Edited by J. J. Collins and P. W. Flint, Brill, 2001, pp. 312-328.

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Abaddon the destroyer is he Jesus?

by ExBethelitenowPIMA in

rev 9:11 the angel with the key to the abyss is called abaddon which means destroyer.. the cross references show jw doctrine teaches he is jesus himself using the account in luke where jesus got the demons out of that girl and they said don’t throw us into the abyss.

and revalation 20:1 shows an angel with the key to the abyss.. either watchtower are right and it’s jesus or there are more than one angel with the key to the abyss.. if it is jesus the destroyer of souls it sounds like conan the destroyer.. from the research guide-abaddon, the angel of the abyss—who is he?.

at revelation 9:11, however, the word “abaddon” is used as the name of “the angel of the abyss.” the corresponding greek name apollyon means “destroyer.” in the 19th century there were efforts made to show that this text prophetically applied to individuals such as emperor vespasian, muhammad, and even napoleon, and the angel was generally regarded as “satanic.” it should be noted, however, that at revelation 20:1-3 the angel having “the key of the abyss” is shown to be god’s representative from heaven, and rather than being “satanic,” he binds and hurls satan into the abyss.

Vidqun

ExBethelite, I guess one can say with certainty that Apollyon/Abaddon does not refer to Jesus, if you follow the analysis of the original words. I agree with EasyPrompt. Satan is a good contender for the title. Here's a few thoughts on the abyss.

The abyss can be favourably compared to the realm of the dead (Rom. 10:7; cf. Luke 8:31). In the abyss = inactive. Out of the abyss = active. God allows the beast to come up from the abyss (Rev. 17:8, 9, 11; cf. 11:7, 8). As part of the fifth trumpet blast, a star (or angel) unlocks the abyss, unleashing a locust plague to torment mankind. The angel does not control the locusts. Apollyon/Abaddon is their king. These are the soldiers of the beast, sent out to control and subdue the masses (Rev. 9:1-11; cf. 11:7, 8). Later Satan the Devil would be sealed in this abyss (of inactivity) for a thousand years (Rev. 20:1-3).

EasyPrompt, I agree with the first part of your explanation, but you lost me with the second part. Why would the locust-scorpions attack religious institutions, starting with the Bethels? They don't distinguish the religious or non-religious. The only ones that's exempt are those with God's seal (Rev. 9:4). All others will be tormented, perhaps by taking away their freedom? [[βασανιστής, οῦ, ὁ torturer, jailer Mt 18:34 uses βασανίζω of the treatment of a debtor from whom everything possible is to be exacted.* See BDAG.]] This will only take place for five months as the fifth trumpet or first woe. According to my reckoning this is part of the first half of the tribulation. Where do you get your 3 1/2 years?

Apollyon: Rev. 9:11(the locust-scorpions from the abyss) ἔχουσιν ἐπʼ αὐτῶν βασιλέα τὸν ἄγγελον τῆς ἀβύσσου, ὄνομα αὐτῷ Ἐβραϊστὶ Ἀβαδδών, καὶ ἐν τῇ Ἐλληνικῇ ὄνομα ἔχει Ἀπολλύων. Ἀπολλύων is a translation and personification of אֲבַדּוֹן (→ Ἀβαδδών, 4:11) “destruction,” for which the LXX uses → ἀπώλεια. It means the Exterminator or Destroyer. As seen, from the time of Grotius it has usually been taken as a play on Apollo, which is the actual reading in Syph.[1] From the time of the victory of Octavian at Actium under the temple of Apollo which was later enlarged by him, Apollo was especially regarded as the god of the empire. The locust is his creature. However, such an explanation muddies the water. What should be kept in mind is that the book of Revelation was written by a Jew and has a predominantly Semitic background. The origin of the Hebrew name Abaddon should bring us closer to what John meant.
Abaddon: Αβαδδών, ὁ indeclinable אֲבַדּוֹן) Prov. 15:11; Ps. 87:12; Theodotion Job 26:6; 28:22=ἀπώλεια LXX). Abaddon, name of the king of the abyss Rev. 9:11, explained as Ἀπολλύων, i.e., Destroyer ) cp. (אָבַד. With this nuance of ʾabhadh we come to the most important noun from this root, ʾabhaddon (with its by-form ʾabhaddoh). Very rarely does this word mean “destruction” (Job 31:12; perhaps also in 1QM fragm. 9:3). Much more often in the Old Testament, and particularly in Wisdom Literature, it means the “place of destruction,” i.e., the Underworld. However, in Rev. 9:11 it is used as a personal name, so this meaning should be ruled out. See BDAG.
ʾabhadh is used in a more general way for destruction of enemies in political and religious conflicts (2 Kings 10:19; 11:1; 19:18; Jer. 46:8; cf. also Jer. 40:15 and the Mesha Stela, cf. H. Donner-W. Röllig, Kanaanäische und aramäische Inschriften, 3 vols. (Wiesbaden, 21966–69, 31971–76), and for ill-treatment of the people by kings and princes (Jer. 23:1; Ezek. 22:27)—all in the piel; cf. the qal in Jer. 10:15, and the Aramaic peal in Jer. 10:11).
Finally, ʾabhadh in the qal exhibits a variety of nuances: Quite often the qal form means simply “to die.” However, the context rules this meaning out. The sting of the locust-scorpions cause pain but do not kill. Of greater theological significance is the use of this word in prophetic texts where the verb describes how in critical times, when evil increases, good attributes and positive ideas vanish (truth: Jer. 7:28; knowledge of the law: Jer. 18:18; Ezek. 7:26; wisdom and good counsel: Is. 29:14; Jer. 18:18; 49:7; Ezek. 7:26; cf. Ps. 146:4; Deut. 32:28 and Damascus document A, i.e., CD A 5:17; righteousness: Mic. 7:2; courage: Jer. 4:9; etc.). The two plainly stereotyped expressions “the place of refuge (manos) is lost,” i.e., there is no place of escape (Am. 2:14; Jer. 25:35; cf. Ps. 142:5[4]; Job 11:20), and “hope (→תקוה tiqvāh) is lost” (Ezek. 19:5; 37:11; cf. Ps. 9:19[18]; Job 8:13; Sir. 41:2; 11QPsa 22:8; etc.) should also be included here.[3]

[1] Syph = Syro-Philoxenian Version, derives its name from Philoxenus or Xenayas, Bishop of Hierapolis in Syria, A. D. 488 — 518, who employed his rural bishop Polycarp to translate the New Testament from the original Greek into the vernacular Syriac of that time.

[2] A. Oepke (1964–). ἀπόλλυμι, ἀπώλεια, Ἀπολλύων. G. Kittel, G. W. Bromiley, & G. Friedrich (Eds.), Theological Dictionary of the New Testament (electronic ed., Vol. 1, p. 397). Grand Rapids, MI: Eerdmans.

[3] B. Otzen (1977). אָבַד. G. J. Botterweck & H. Ringgren (Eds.), J. T. Willis (Translated), Theological Dictionary of the Old Testament (Revised Edition, Vol. 1, pp. 20–23). Grand Rapids, MI; Cambridge, U.K.: William B. Eerdmans Publishing Company.