Posts by Vidqun

13

Loyalty to the Governing Body? Timeline to Change

by blondie in

jw
friends

https://jwfacts.com/watchtower/governing-body.php .

here is an example how the wts has "adjusted" scripture.

the governing body has gone as far as to change the text of micah 6:8 in their 2013 new world translation of the holy scriptures (nwt) in order to be able to demand loyalty.

Vidqun

Blondie, interesting observation. As above translations quoted and the aforementioned thread indicate, it is a complicated Hebrew concept, not readily translated by English. This is what a few dictionaries bring out:

The active nature of ḥeseḏ is underlined by the use of the verb ʿāśâ in Zec. 7:9 and Ps. 109:16. Similarly, the pl. ḥasāḏîm in 2 Ch. 32:32; 35:26; Neh. 13:14 refers to the “good deeds” of Hezekiah, Josiah, and Nehemiah; in Neh. 13:14, this phrase is reinforced by the explanatory clause “that I have done for (ʿāśâ + be) the house of God and its furnishings.” In the broader context of ḥeseḏ we also encounter the verbs gāmal, “render” (Prov. 11:17), ḥāraš, “devise” (Prov. 14:22), rāḏap̱, “pursue” (Prov. 21:21), and the hiphil of yṭb, “make good” (Ruth 3:10); in the opposite sense we find mûš + min, “refuse” (Job 6:14 conj. For ms). The ʾahaḇaṯ ḥeseḏ of Mic. 6:8 also belongs here, on account of the parallel ʿaśôṯ mišpāṭ. On the basis of these observations, we can draw the general conclusion that the concept ḥeseḏ includes an element of action.
Hans-Jürgen Zobel, “חֶסֶד,” in Theological Dictionary of the Old Testament, ed. G. Johannes Botterweck and Helmer Ringgren, trans. David E. Green (Grand Rapids, MI; Cambridge, U.K.: William B. Eerdmans Publishing Company, 1986), 48–49. Most recently G. Fohrer, Das Buch Hiob. KAT, XVI (1963), 161.

—1. joint obligation between relatives, friends, host and guest, master and servant; closeness, solidarity, loyalty.
—2. ח׳ in God’s relationship with the people or an individual, faithfulness, goodness, graciousness (HALOT).

Conclusion: Mic. 6:8 points to our relationship with God, thus faithfulness, goodness, graciousness, are to be preferred. Joint obligation, thus loyalty would be used for human relationships. TDOT also brings out that the word hhesed requires an action: "love kindness," in parallel with "exercise justice." Therefore I would stick with the meaning of NW84.

20

Space just got Girl-Bossed!!!!

by DATA-DOG in

the founding members of the:.

advanced.

taskforce.

Vidqun

Women-only "astronaut" team. Is that better?

20

Space just got Girl-Bossed!!!!

by DATA-DOG in

the founding members of the:.

advanced.

taskforce.

Vidqun

I thought they went into space and became the first women astronauts. Obviously they never went into space, dumbell.

20

Space just got Girl-Bossed!!!!

by DATA-DOG in

the founding members of the:.

advanced.

taskforce.

Vidqun

How high did they go up for them not to get scorched on the way down?

2

The "Ark Of The Covenant Was Seen/Appeared In His Temple, In Heaven" -- What Does It Mean? (See Revelation 11:19)

by AbaddonProvesIt in

the "ark of the covenant was seen/appeared in his temple, in heaven" -- what does it mean?

(see revelation 11:19).

the "ark of the covenant" has been said to represent god's presence with mankind or "israel.

Vidqun

First of all, there is no temple in heaven (Rev. 21:22, 23). The heavenly sanctuary in Revelation refers to a symbolic representation of the tabernacle (15:5). The third temple with its "living stones" is situated on earth (cf. 1 Cor. 3:16, 17; 2 Cor. 6:16; Eph. 2:21, 22). According to the Scriptures the smoke in the Most Holy indicated the presence of Jehovah God (Lev. 16:2). When the smoke column lifted the Israelites would follow (Ex. 40:36, 37). Smoke would also appear around the Ark at the inauguration of Solomen's temple (1 Kings 8:10, 11). I take it that the ark in heaven would have a similar meaning as the one on earth, meaning Jehovah was present (Rev. 15:8).

111

Trump Tariffs started today, Some Countries Caved in early morning.

by liam in

usa politicians in charge of the economy for the past 50 years were too stupid to understand how the economy works.

this just proves my theory, that an education on the top tier universities just sucks and means nothing in the real world, unless its in the stem education.

for 50 years usa had zero tariffs on other countries.

Vidqun

I don't think Trump's tariffs are unfair at all. These are reciprocal tarriffs, according to the tariffs that US exporters faced. If and when the nations lower their tarriffs, the US will do the same. In addition, tariffs will encourage factories and assembly plants in the US to produce cheaper products. A win-win for Trump and co.

187

Insight Book LIES - then tells the TRUTH!

by BoogerMan in

it-1 p. 493 communication - "when the circumcision issue was resolved by the governing body in jerusalem......".

it-1 p. 881 galatians, letter to the - "by reason of a revelation, paul, with barnabas and titus, went to jerusalem regarding the circumcision issue; he learned nothing new from james, peter, and john, but they recognized that he had been empowered for an apostleship to the nations.

" (galatians 2:1-10).

Vidqun

Not sure about the "prophetic year" concept, but working exclusively on Biblical data, there is a clear correspondence between Daniel's calender and that of John in Revelation. Both followed a solar calender of 360 days + 4 intercalary times (i.e., the equinoxes and solstices) that were added between seasons, but not counted in the reckoning of the days of the year:

Aramaic year: ע דִָּן (JArm., Syr., Heb. מוֹעֵד ) Da 7:25, Sept. ἔτο῍ Da 4:16.32.34, Josephus Antiquities xii 7: 6 :: Vulgate tempus/tempora, so also Sept. καιρό῍καιροί 7:25 12:7; שִׁבְעָה עִדָּניִן Da 4:13.20.22.29, וּפְלגַ עִדָּן7:25 עַד עִדָּן ועְִדָּניִן meaning three and a half years (Bentzen 34, 67; Plöger KAT xviii: 105; see also 115f, 143). † See HALOT.

Hebrew year: מֹעֲדִיםוָחֵצִילְם׳ :מוֹעֵד a time, times and a half Da 12:7 (as BArm. 2 ע דִָּן, meaning a year). See HALOT.

The expr. καιρὸν καὶ καιροὺς κ. ἥμισυ καιροῦ also belongs to the eschatol. vocab.; it means the apocalyptic time of 1 + 2 + ½ = 3½ years. See BDAG. καιρόν καί καιρούς καί ἥμισυ καιροῦ, a year and two years and six months (A. V. a time, and times, and half a time; cf. Winer’s Grammar, sec. 27, 4), Rev. 12:14 (cf. 6; from Dan. 7:25; 12:7). See Thayer.

Gabriele Boccaccini, in the article “The Solar Calendars of Daniel and Enoch,” suggests that the writer of Daniel used a solar calendar, consisting of a thirty-day month x 12 = 360 day year + 4 intercalary times (i.e., the equinoxes and solstices) that were added between seasons but not counted in the reckoning of the days of the year. See The Book of Daniel: Composition and Reception. Volume 2. Edited by J. J. Collins and P. W. Flint, Brill, 2001, pp. 312-328.

187

Insight Book LIES - then tells the TRUTH!

by BoogerMan in

it-1 p. 493 communication - "when the circumcision issue was resolved by the governing body in jerusalem......".

it-1 p. 881 galatians, letter to the - "by reason of a revelation, paul, with barnabas and titus, went to jerusalem regarding the circumcision issue; he learned nothing new from james, peter, and john, but they recognized that he had been empowered for an apostleship to the nations.

" (galatians 2:1-10).

Vidqun

So the angel of Jehovah answered and said, O Jehovah of armies, how long will you yourself not show mercy to Jerusalem and to the cities of Judah, whom you have denounced these seventy years? (Zech. 1:12)

20 Furthermore, he carried off those remaining from the sword captive to Babylon, and they came to be servants to him and his sons until the royalty of Persia began to reign; 21 to fulfill Jehovah's word by the mouth of Jeremiah, until the land had paid off its sabbaths. All the days of lying desolated it kept sabbath, to fulfill seventy years. (2 Chr. 36:20, 21)

Scholar, there's your answer. The denouncement would start with Jehoiakim. He started off as a vassal of Egypt, but would then serve Nebuchadnezzar for three years. In 605 BCE crown prince Nebuchadnezzar would defeat the Egyptians. Shortly afterwards he would be made king, after the death of his father, Nabopolasar. During his accession year, during the days of Jehoiakim, he would start the deportation of Judahites, the first deportation of many. Here youths, sons of nobles and royalty, would be deported (Dan. 1:1, 3; cf. 2 Kings 20:18). The nations, including the Judahites, would serve the Babylonians seventy years. Their servitude would already have started in 608/607 BCE, during the reign of Jehoiakim (cf. 2 Kings 24:1, 2). That fulfills the denouncement of 70 years. Note, the land would pay off its Sabbaths, but it would not necessarily lay desolate for seventy years.

187

Insight Book LIES - then tells the TRUTH!

by BoogerMan in

it-1 p. 493 communication - "when the circumcision issue was resolved by the governing body in jerusalem......".

it-1 p. 881 galatians, letter to the - "by reason of a revelation, paul, with barnabas and titus, went to jerusalem regarding the circumcision issue; he learned nothing new from james, peter, and john, but they recognized that he had been empowered for an apostleship to the nations.

" (galatians 2:1-10).

Vidqun

Scholar, let me get this straight. You believe 607 BCE to be the date for the destruction of Jerusalem and the exile of the people? I gather this would happen at the start of Nebuchadnezzar's rule. So Jerusalem and surroundings would be desolate for seventy years. Afterwards the Jews would be freed by Cyrus, to be back in Jerusalem by 537 BCE.

12 And in the fifth month, on the tenth day of the month, that is, [in] the nineteenth year of King Nebuchadrezzar, the king of Babylon, Nebuzaradan the chief of the bodyguard, who was standing before the king of Babylon, came into Jerusalem. 13 And he proceeded to burn the house of Jehovah and the house of the king and all the houses of Jerusalem; and every great house he burned with fire. 14 And all the walls of Jerusalem, round about, all the military forces of the Chaldeans that were with the chief of the bodyguard pulled down.

27 And these the king of Babylon proceeded to strike down and to put them to death in Riblah in the land of Hamath. Thus Judah went into exile from off its soil. 28 These are the people whom Nebuchadrezzar took into exile, in the seventh year, three thousand and twenty-three Judahites. 29 In the eighteenth year of Nebuchadrezzar, from Jerusalem there were eight hundred and thirty-two souls. 30 In the twenty-third year of Nebuchadrezzar, Nebuzaradan the chief of the bodyguard took Judahites into exile, seven hundred and forty-five souls. All the souls were four thousand and six hundred. (Jer. 52:12-14, 27-30)

So how is it that Nebuchadnezzar could exile people from Jerusalem in his 18th year and destroy Jerusalem in his 19th year? According to Watchtower theology, Jerusalem had already been destroyed in 607 BCE. As I said, this is impossible.

Now let’s look at it from a secular chronology perspective. Nebuchadnezzar became king in 605 BCE. In his 19th year he destroyed Jerusalem and took the majority of the people into exile.

That means 605 – 19 = 586 BCE (give or take a few months).

And according to the Israelite kings: First year of Jehoiakim, Tishri 608 (Sept–Oct) to Elul 607 (Aug–Sept). Third year of Jehoiakim, Tishri 606 (Sept–Oct) to last of Elul, 605 (Oct 6). Next followed Jehoiachin’s appointment, lasting only three months. Nebuchadrezzar, in his 8th year, would take 800 into exile, including Jehoiachin.

Zed·e·kiʹah was 21 years old when he became king, and he reigned for 11 years in Jerusalem. It was because of Jehovah’s anger that these things took place in Jerusalem and in Judah, until he cast them out of his sight. And Zed·e·kiʹah rebelled against the king of Babylon. In the ninth year of Zed·e·kiʹah’s reign, in the tenth month, on the tenth day of the month, King Neb·u·chad·nezʹzar of Babylon came with all his army against Jerusalem. They camped against it and built a siege wall all around it. And the city was under siege until the 11th year of King Zed·e·kiʹah (2 Chron. 36:5-20).

Again: 608 – 11 – 11 = 586 BCE (give or take a few months).

187

Insight Book LIES - then tells the TRUTH!

by BoogerMan in

it-1 p. 493 communication - "when the circumcision issue was resolved by the governing body in jerusalem......".

it-1 p. 881 galatians, letter to the - "by reason of a revelation, paul, with barnabas and titus, went to jerusalem regarding the circumcision issue; he learned nothing new from james, peter, and john, but they recognized that he had been empowered for an apostleship to the nations.

" (galatians 2:1-10).

Vidqun

COJ failed to disprove 607 BCE despite his 17 lines of evidence.

Scholar, you amaze me with your logic, or lack of.

The major flaw in COJ's thesis is that he failed to recognize the historical reality of the Jewish Exile…

Which deportation or exile are you referring to? I count five. And it’s not necessary to go into details of the Jewish exile. All that’s necessary is to establish the start of Nebuchadrezzar’s kingship. Keep in mind the following:

"28 These are the people whom Nebuchadrezzar took into exile, in the seventh year, three thousand and twenty-three Judahites.
29 In the eighteenth year of Nebuchadrezzar, from Jerusalem there were eight hundred and thirty-two souls.
30 In the twenty-third year of Nebuchadrezzar, Nebuzaradan the chief of the bodyguard took Judahites into exile, seven hundred and forty-five souls. All the souls were four thousand and six hundred. (Jer. 52:27-30)

The following is according to Babylonian chronology, which fits the Bible narrative. Notice crown prince Nebuchadrezzar would only become king 605 BCE:

“Necho’s campaign in northern Syria coincides with the brief reign of Jehoahaz, who was deposed on Necho’s return shortly after 1 Tishri (late Sept) 609, at which time Jehoiakim’s accession begins. First year of Jehoiakim, Tishri 608 (Sept–Oct) to Elul 607 (Aug–Sept). Third year of Jehoiakim, Tishri 606 (Sept–Oct) to last of Elul, 605 (Oct 6). This is the twenty-first year of Nabopolasar and the accession year of Nebuchadrezzar. Battle of Carchemish, late May to early June 605; Nabopolasar’s death Aug 15/16, 605. Nebuchadrezzar’s coronation Sept 7, 605. The accession year of Nebuchadrezzar = the third year of Jehoiakim. First (regnal) year of Nebuchadrezzar = the fourth year of Jehoiakim.” See A. R. Green (1982). “The Chronology of the Last Days of Judah: Two Apparent Discrepancies.” Journal of Biblical Literature, 101, pp. 57–73.