Yeah. There's a difference between progressive understanding of truths and contradiction. Progressive understanding doesn't negate what's already been learned. Kind of like mathmatics. Learning multiplication or division doesn't negate addition and subtraction. It's ADDITIONAL understanding that doesn't contradict itself. "New Light" as they call it is usually nothing but a contradiction of what they said before.....
Just out of curiosity, I've noticed that there are a lot of people that spend lots of time contradicting and debunking JWs...and that's all well and good. Don't become too consumed with it though. What I'm saying is that it's also a good idea to build something new and positive. That has nothing to do with proving anyone wrong but more about creating what you want and things that build people up. Otherwise what will happen, is for those who become too consumed with the negative, you might find yourself in a miserable position. What I mean is that there's so much good and great things in this world. So many possibilities. There's a lot of things to do and be and discover.
KungFu
JoinedPosts by KungFu
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6
How I made a WITNESS break the spell he was under, a least temporarily
by What-A-Coincidence inafter telling him my fam.
and i left, i explained to him about the pedophiles, un etc.. like clockwork ... "the society is imperfect" "new light" bla bla.
i said, 'we are told to repeat those lines, and you my friend have done a great job" ... you should have seen his face ... priceless.
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KungFu
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what happens if I die?
by halcyon inwhat happens to a fader whose family is still jw if they die?
what kind of funeral do they get?
i know nobody shows up, but who presides over it?
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KungFu
Here's what happens:
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=dgNJhzJeZac -
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How much of a role in Brainwashing did the songs actually play?
by KW13 inthose haunting words...those out of tune dubs...wailing...moanin...then i wake up :p lol i am kidding, but i remember 'snippets' of a lot of songs, all of which focused on me being submissive (for example song number 8, my favourite as a child dub).
does singing help brainwash sheep?
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KungFu
Yeah. That was a weird line "like bees that were molested". I could see a bee on Dateline. "He touched me on the bottom of my stinger. Bzzzz. Bzzzzz."
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A Mass Protest...
by KW13 inimagine if we could organize an international protest within kingdom halls, similar to the money campaign at last times memorial...perhaps something similar, we should have something ready for next year...
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KungFu
Protest probably isn't the way to go. What's your outcome? If it's to change people's minds or at least to get them to consider other ways of thinking and behaving, you might consider using rational thought and using their existing beliefs to help them to see contradictions within their own belief system. If a person is made consciously aware that their belief systems are contradictory....in enough instances.....using their own standards and their own beliefs as comparisons, you can change minds. For example.......Most people have standards of behavior for themselves and other people that they consider acceptable and unacceptable. Very few people ever think of using that same measuring stick to measure the behavior of the god they worship. They also have standards of rationality. If you illustrate by using examples where a set of behavior violates their standards in one context, and then have them to compare it to a similar situation in a different context, then you can create the beginnings of change. At the very least they might be less fanatical if there's enough "slippage" created between their belief systems....It can create a little bit of flexibility.
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First Time Donating PLASMA!
by esw1966 init's another new step!
i'm donating plasma today!
they take the blood out, get the plasma, and then put the red cells back.
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KungFu
Yay PLASMA!!!! (Now I feel like Slim Goodbody........and if you're reading this and don't know who Slim Goodbody is, I truly pity you.)
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im an atheist and i like the idea of being an athiest but its kinda hard
by Lotus65 inim an atheist and i like the idea that comes with freedom of though and analytical thinking that follows being atheistic vs having a religion im just kinda in a jam because i need to try and find something to completely lose the thoughts in the back of my head that say what if im wrong and i "suffer" because of it.
i feel that if i can find something to destroy these thoughts i can be alot more comfortable with my views and opinions.
anyone have any thoughts on what i should do.
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KungFu
Thanks Gopher,
It worked. Muchas grassyass.
Onto a quick branch from this topic.........
Mental traps you can avoid and tactics to use:
1)Sometimes when we change beliefs or have beliefs contrary to popular opinion, many people have a default belief that they feel they have to justify their beliefs. AVOID this trap like the freakin plague. You have no need to justify your beliefs to people.
2)Make no apologies for your beliefs or views and state them just as forcefully and assuredly as those that try to impose their beliefs on you. Don't be half-assed about your beliefs. Have strong opinions......you can allow yourslef to see other viewpoints when it serves you. Just don't let people try to bully you psychologically, and instead contradict and attack!
Here's an example from my life:
Father: Why don't you believe in Jehovah?
Me: The same reason you don't believe in Zeus, Apollo, Santa Clause or the Tooth Fairy.
Father: I KNOW there is a god.
Me: And I KNOW there's no god.
Or you can find common ground in your belief:
Another real-life example:
Me: You know, even though we have different beliefs about how life got here, we do have some beliefs in common. You believe no-one created God and I believe no-one created the universe. And really, the creator would have to be even more complex than the universe, since he's intelligent enough to create it and powerful enough to. So we're both at the same point. There comes a point where we really have no explanation how something complex couldn't have been created. And the creator is MORE complex than a watch or computer or anything manmade. So we have that in common. We both believe that at some point, something complex wasn't created by anyone.
Father:Sex outside of marriage is wrong.
Me: I have absolutely no problem with sex outside of marriage myself. I think it's more a matter of personal preference.
Father: But the bible says it's wrong.
Me: So what's your point? The bible also says it's okay to stone people to death. Like I said, I see the advantages and disadvantages of monogamy and polygamy. Besides that, you know David and Solomon and Abraham were polygamists. People you admire. So maybe there's something to this polygamy thing. But then again, ONE wife is probably plenty. hahahaha. I kind of feel sorry for guys who are married to 30 women. Poor guy! And if they all divorce him, he splits his money 30 ways.
3) Avoid the trap of having to be "right" or finding the "truth". The best you can do is have some understandings of the world that are as accurate as possible with the limited info you have. The rest you'll either have to take a "I don't know, and that's fine" attitude or forming beliefs that work for you. And realizing that most beliefs have their own logic to them and make sense in their own way. So you can see the world as other people see it without losing a sense of what you believe.....a good way to learn about and connect with people while maintaining your own beliefs. -
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++ Send out some good thoughts to those that need it
by LouBelle infirst of all i miss sademo & that she used to put a weekly vigil up.
everyone needs a bit of tlc, or could do with a bit of upliftment, encouragement, prayers, good vibes...just that little bit of positiveness.. in light of that my dear mum is going through a divorce, and i know it's not easy.. witness 007 is having a rough time & could do with some encouragement.. if you need or know of others that need, then please add your comment.. ian - dansk - i don't know if you still come on here, but if you do, know that i still think about you and still wonder how you are doing.
i'll be sending you some good thoughts and a letter your way...check the mail.. .
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KungFu
Lou said "it's sad that a topic like this hardly gets any posts - but if I put up a topic about boobs or the like, hell there's about 4 / 5 pages."
You mean this isn't topic about boobs? Damn! Double damn! I thought this topic was about boobs and I was about to post about 4 or 5 pages worth of comments myself.........hahahahaha.......Actually, the funny thing is that the divorce might be tough on her right now but she'll probably be really glad when it's all done. When it's over with it will probably be a big relief! Usually change is painful because when we resist, it's painful. The option of sticking around would probably be MORE painful. I think it's a no-lose situation myself. I think she'll be much happier in the long run. I find that if you look hard enough there's usually something positive to gain from even the most negative experiences. And for every bad thing happening, there are a hundred good things about life........By the way, let me know if you run across any topics about boobs. I'd really like to contribute something positive to the discussion. Maybe I should start one myself, about manboobs. "Do chicks find manboobs sexually attractive?"
Now I can see it. You and all of your giggly little girlfriends will be posting 4 or 5 pages worth of lewd, inappropriate comments and I'll have to tell you all to simmer down and take a breather and turn on a fan or something. Then history will repeat itself when I begin a serious post with : "It's sad that a topic like this hardly gets any posts-but if I put up a topic about manboobs or the like, hell, there's about 4/5 pages!!" -
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im an atheist and i like the idea of being an athiest but its kinda hard
by Lotus65 inim an atheist and i like the idea that comes with freedom of though and analytical thinking that follows being atheistic vs having a religion im just kinda in a jam because i need to try and find something to completely lose the thoughts in the back of my head that say what if im wrong and i "suffer" because of it.
i feel that if i can find something to destroy these thoughts i can be alot more comfortable with my views and opinions.
anyone have any thoughts on what i should do.
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KungFu
See, that last post did the same thing.
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im an atheist and i like the idea of being an athiest but its kinda hard
by Lotus65 inim an atheist and i like the idea that comes with freedom of though and analytical thinking that follows being atheistic vs having a religion im just kinda in a jam because i need to try and find something to completely lose the thoughts in the back of my head that say what if im wrong and i "suffer" because of it.
i feel that if i can find something to destroy these thoughts i can be alot more comfortable with my views and opinions.
anyone have any thoughts on what i should do.
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KungFu
Thanks summer, I don't know why. When I typed the message, I did it in paragraphs but when it posted...it posted as one long, run-on paragraph. How do I fix that??
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im an atheist and i like the idea of being an athiest but its kinda hard
by Lotus65 inim an atheist and i like the idea that comes with freedom of though and analytical thinking that follows being atheistic vs having a religion im just kinda in a jam because i need to try and find something to completely lose the thoughts in the back of my head that say what if im wrong and i "suffer" because of it.
i feel that if i can find something to destroy these thoughts i can be alot more comfortable with my views and opinions.
anyone have any thoughts on what i should do.
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KungFu
Hey,
We'll use some rational thinking to help you out with the irrational thinking that's going on in your mind. So you wonder, what if you're wrong? What's the WORST that will happen if you're wrong? What's the WORST you'll suffer?...............I want you to think about this before you read on. Answer in your mind what's the worst scenario........What's the absolute WORST? We want to find out specifically what your greatest fear is. As long as it stays ambiguous in your mind, you'll be wondering just what it is that's scaring you.
I don't personally believe in a god. But if there was a god and he's the way everyone describes him, and he gave you a brain to reason with and he's everywhere and knows everything, and can read your thoughts, then he knows you have legitimate reasons for doubting certain things. He knows that you're a sincere person and that you've got good reason to question things. And he's supposed to be loving, so he can empathize with you and knows the pain you've dealt with. So I seriously doubt that if you're a half-way decent person, that god would be doing a service to the world to either wipe you out or fry you forever . So your worst case scenario probably doesn't even match up with the idea that god is loving....one of the many masses of contradictions that exist in religion. On the other hand, what a relief if there's actually no god! If there's no god, it's like a huge burden lifted from you. That means there's no tool-bag watching your every move and judging it. And if there is a god and he's loving, he's probably very understanding and wise. I mean, if he's intelligent enough to make the planets and he knows EVERYTHING, he's probably not some juvenile a$$wipe that just is sooooo hungry for people to tell him how great he is. That would be like me owning an ant farm and burning the ants because they're not telling me how great I am every minute because I'm insecure and weak-minded.
Trust me, the god of the bible is a fiction. Very much so. If there is a creative being, he's probably way different than the way they make him out to be. How's THIS for logic? "Ummmmmm, son, you know, Fred that lives across town? Well, he's done some bad things. He killed a man. Now, I want to forgive him for doing it, but the only way I can forgive him, is to kill YOU. I know you're a good person. You're probably the most generous and caring person in the world, but the ONLY way I can forgive Fred is to let these gang members over here torture you to death. But I LOVE you!". See, I say if you're going to choose to believe in a god, then at least hold him up to the same behavior and reasoning standards that you hold yourself and other people to. At the very LEAST...but actually his standards should be much higher. See the stupidity? You have nothing to be afraid of except your own imagination.
And also, like I said, what a breath of fresh air if there's actually no such thing as a god! At the very least, we know that the god people believe in is imaginary. "No one can see god and live!" How convenient. There's absolutely zero proof! "You just have to believe!". Ahhh...so once again, no evidence. God is imaginary. As imaginary as the Greek and Roman gods. If there's no sensory evidence......nothing seen or sensed, other than as a concept, then you're strictly in the realm of belief and belief, my friend, isn't fact. Belief is dependent on the imagination. That's how the mind works. You've never seen a "god" but your mind can form a mental image or likeness of a big guy on a throne with light
surrounding him. Belief is dependent on imagination. Facts, on the other hand, are not. The only thing we know for sure is that the world exists. Even ideas like the big bang are theory. And no one REALLY has ever stopped to ask this one simple question. Did the universe have a beginning? This question isn't really all that important for being a happy person. People put waaaaaay too much importance on the origins of life. But the belief in a god or in a big bang assumes or presupposes that the universe did, in fact, have a beginning, and no one really knows if it did. It could have just always been here. We've assumed that because everything we know of in our finite, puny little human existence has a beginning that the same applies to the universe. The truth is, WE DON'T KNOW. And not knowing is okay. It's really not that big a deal! Do you know exactly how your computer works or your tv or radio? Could you build one from scratch? Do you understand the workings of the body? Our understanding of the world is VERY limited, even with science as it is today.
Imagine being an ancient Greek or an ancient Israelite. You don't have microscopes. You're a farmer your entire life. Suddenly a disease swoops in and kills a bunch of people! What the f??? GOD must have cursed us! What did we do wrong? Well we did complain the other day about the weather and being hungry. THAT must be what ticked god off! Let's repent and burn a live goat!!! We know god loves goats!! Especially burnt ones!!! Jesus f-ing Christ!!!!!!But yeah, if you're going to choose a belief, atheism is a pretty good choice in my book. And if you're going to make something your "religion", why not make science your religion? Even if some of the theories turn out not to be true, at least they tell you from the start it's a theory. And the theories of science are usually more sane and reasonable than some of the crazy stuff religions have come up with. There's just so much more sanity and clarity. And people aren't killing other people over whether they like Darwin or Sir Isaac Newton better. So, if you really like rational thinking, and I think you do, I hope this post has given you some relief and clarity. Trust me. I cursed every god and demon I could think of. Jehovah, Jesus, Buddha, Bahaulah, Satan, Krishna, Vishnu, Zeus, Hermes, Ares.......and many more....just to get over my irrational fear back in the day, and 6 years later I'm still healthy. No one struck me dead. If you want to overcome your fear, try saying "Jehovah is my b_tch". You won't be struck by lightning. hahahaha.........Take it easy pal. Oh, and no need to try to be a good person and save the world and all that crap. Just relax and enjoy yourself. You're alright the way you are.
Just take it easy. Enjoy your life as much as possible. Let the evangelists worry about "saving the world" and all that non-sense.......Take care!