Posts by oscartheduck

17

New Here--A Personal Experience

by jaysong in

i'm new to this forum, and have been lurking for awhile enjoying your posts.

thought i would share my own exp as so much of what is being said here rings true.. i'm an air force brat, currently in my thirties, that left the jw's when i was 25. it all started in albuquerque, nm when my mom accepted a study with a jw woman there.

she continued to study when we transferred to an air base in panama city, fl.

oscartheduck

Just want to back you up. They stole my childhood.

And I have been angry. But never let it consume me.

And you're right...anyone can get a student loan in AMerica. I've just qualified for one of ten thousand bucks a year, and I'm an international student with a person co-signing who's got a fairly poor credit rating.

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The Watchtower, April 15, 1928, p. 126 "As every one knows, there are mistakes in the Bible "

56

What is EVIL? Who Defines?

by D wiltshire in

jw
friends

what is evil?.

who defines what is truly evil?.

if someone lived a trillion x longer than you, and had a billion x more reasoning ability would he come to the same conclusions as you?.

oscartheduck

I'd just like to quantify...I said that in my opinion, it was getting off topic, due to a minor distinction. Not that it was utterly irrelevant, simply that it wasn't a TOTALLY relevant discussion. It was (probably) necessary for Farkel to say what he did for the discussion to advance. And that just because through my reasoning it's off topic, doesn't necessarily mean that it IS. I just presented one point of view from which it could be considered off topic...

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The Watchtower, April 15, 1928, p. 126 "As every one knows, there are mistakes in the Bible "

27

Why 2 witnesses to a sin?

by kevin221 in

jw
friends

i've read several posts lately that define what exactly can or can't get someone in trouble with the jw's and i'm a little confused.

how does the 2 witnesses to a sin thing work?

let me explain why i'm asking.. about 7 years ago a friend of jon's that he has known as a child contacted him via telephone.

oscartheduck

I was recently researching the topics covered by the book "Pay Attention To Yourselves and All the Flock", which you may see referred to as the Elder's Handbook.

It states that, on a Judicial Committee, it is only acceptable if there were "" two or three eyewitnesses, not just persons
repeating what they have heard;", which means that the witnesses in this case are null according to the book they're meant to follow for direction.
THe scriptural back up for having several witnesses is:Deut. 19:15; Jol1ll 8:17

If you're interested in looking into that book yourself, you can find it posted on the web here : http://home2.inet.tele.dk/carloc/

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The Watchtower, April 15, 1928, p. 126 "As every one knows, there are mistakes in the Bible "

9

Elders are infallible!

by oscartheduck in

jw
friends

i remember talking to an elder about judicial commitees whilst we were on a security shift (which lasted for twenty minutes each during the meetindgs, with other brothers coming out after your twenty minutes was up to take your place).

he was feeling open because he had just been on one that disfellowshipped a young woman whom he had watchde grow up in "the truth".. so we were chatting and i asked him "what if you make a mistake?

" and he said "oh, we don't make mistakes, god's holy spirit is directing us.".

oscartheduck

I remember talking to an elder about judicial commitees whilst we were on a security shift (which lasted for twenty minutes each during the meetindgs, with other brothers coming out after your twenty minutes was up to take your place). He was feeling open because he had just been on one that disfellowshipped a young woman whom he had watchde grow up in "the truth".

So we were chatting and I asked him "What if you make a mistake?" And he said "Oh, we don't make mistakes, God's holy spirit is directing us."

So I said "But what if?" And he looked at me sideways and said "Well, we have to live with the bloodguilt."

So I said "Have you ever found out you were wrong?"

And he said "I've been on a committee where later there was a revision and our judgment was wrong according to the new thought."

"Was the person re-instated?"
"No."
"Why not?"
And then our "relief" came out, because our time was up.

40

WILL I BE DISFELLOWSHIPPED?

by jazz in

jw
friends

my wife went into my email and found out i have been looking at porn and chatting with other women she went to the elders and told them i go before them on sunday.

what do you think my fate will be

oscartheduck

YOu might find http://home2.inet.tele.dk/carloc/unit5b.htm helpful.

It contains such nice quotes as:

"Before forming a committee, elders determine if the accu-
sation has substance.

It must Scripturally be an offense serious enough to
result in disfellowshipping.

There must be either two witnesses or a confession of
wrongdoing.

If there is not enough evidence to form a committee
but serious questions have been raised, two elders may
be assigned to investigate the matter. "

"Instead of looking for rigid rules for guidance, elders
should think in terms of principles; judge each case on its
own merits. "

"There must be two or three eyewitnesses, not just persons
repeating what they have heard; no action can be taken if
there is only one witness. (Deut. 19:15;Jol1ll 8:17)

Confession (admission of wrongdoing), either written or
oral, may be accepted as conclusive proof without other
corroborating evidence. (Josh. 7:19)

Strong circumstantial evidence, such as pregnancy or evi-
dence (testified to by at least two witnesses) that the
accused stayed all night in the same house with a person of
the opposite sex (or in the same house with a known
homosexual ) under improper circumstances, is acceptable."

" In cases where it is established that a serious sin was
actually committed, the judicial committee should con-
sider such factors as these:...Are there extenuating factors, such as emotional or
mental disorders or having been a victim of some type
of abuse in the past, that should be considered?

Was it a single offense, or was it committed more than
once? ...Was his confession voluntary, or did he have to be ac-
cused by others before confessing?

Was his reluctance to speak more a result of deep shame
than of lack of repentance?

Above all does he show true repentance and manifest a
heartfelt desire to avoid repetition of the wrong?

Even though the wrongdoer is guilty of a serious of-
fense, elders on the judicial committee realize that their
aim is to recover the one who has fallen into a wrong
course, whenever this is possible. (Jude 23 )

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The Watchtower, April 15, 1928, p. 126 "As every one knows, there are mistakes in the Bible "

40

WILL I BE DISFELLOWSHIPPED?

by jazz in

jw
friends

my wife went into my email and found out i have been looking at porn and chatting with other women she went to the elders and told them i go before them on sunday.

what do you think my fate will be

oscartheduck

Strictly speaking, if your wife never confronted you first, it's none of the elder's business. But don't be so blunt. Tell them something calm like "I'll be more than happy to meet with you, but first I want to discuss this with my wife so that we can sort things out between us."

Your best bet is to be repentant, say sorry, hold your hands up, cry a little if you feel the need. If you're truly repentant then, theoretically, there's nothing to fear. And saying sorry is always the best course of action.

You could suggest that you're going to put up a filter for mature content on your browser, and tell yur wife whenever you're going online, so that all your access is documented and if she ever gets suspicious, she can check. That might help, because it shows a repentant "I don't want to do this again" attitude.

Of course, if you don't give a shit what happens to you...then flip them off and show 'em yer arse ;)

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The Watchtower, April 15, 1928, p. 126 "As every one knows, there are mistakes in the Bible "

24

Mr Dedalus, married man

by dedalus in

jw
friends

foxy and i were married this sunday in a small ceremony before family & friends.

yippie!.

an observation: we hired a justice of the peace more or less at random from the phone book.

oscartheduck

CAn I ask for some help in writing my vows, then? Our marriage (myself and my girlfriend) is due in January/February and we're writing our vows...

Congratulations, though, and my best wishes to you and your wife for the future.

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The Watchtower, April 15, 1928, p. 126 "As every one knows, there are mistakes in the Bible "

11

Daily text - Isa. 25:8

by YoYoMama in

jw
friends

isa.

25:8 "[god] will actually swallow up death forever, ... for jehovah himself has spoken it.".

commentary:.

oscartheduck

So you're saying that only God has the power to resurrect, but that Jesus (who is not God and therefore does not have the power) will do the actual resurrection?

Seems like a crossing over of the roles of God and Jesus, really...

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The Watchtower, April 15, 1928, p. 126 "As every one knows, there are mistakes in the Bible "

3

Great quote from JW Media.org

by Jourles in

jw
friends

"the earth will never be destroyed or depopulated but will become a peaceful paradise.".

http://www.jw-media.org/beliefs/trueworship.htm.

so much for telling everyone under our breath that they will be part of the 6-odd billion that will be destroyed when armageddon comes.

oscartheduck

Yeah, if they're countin the insect population, then we have to say that six billion going is a mere blip on the scale.

Strikes me as normal watchtower get-out habits. I can see it now: "Brotehrs, can you believe that some outside the organisation are so arrogant as to believe that MAN is the only population of the earth?"

THe return of the shadowy brother SOME....

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The Watchtower, April 15, 1928, p. 126 "As every one knows, there are mistakes in the Bible "