Posts by popcorn

6

The "Worldlies"

by popcorn_eater in

jw
friends

i just wanted to say that i think it's disgusting that jw's refer to people who happen not to be in their religion as "worldlies.

" like we're not even people, just some other group, like aliens.

i suspect jw's would also not be beneath calling homosexual people "the gays" which is kind of similar.

I just wanted to say that I think it's disgusting that JW's refer to people who happen not to be in their religion as "worldlies." Like we're not even people, just some other group, like aliens. I suspect JW's would also not be beneath calling homosexual people "the gays" which is kind of similar. This overt or covert bashing of what they call worldly people happens a lot at meetings, I gather, but it happened to me for the first time when I was at the horrible Sunday WT study meeting where they went over the "mentally diseased" article and how to shun your loved ones. This would have been Oct or Nov of last year, I think. I've been fuming about it ever since. I have never encountered less love and more self-righteousness in such a short amount of time.

I attend meetings sometimes with my husband's JW daughter and her crazy family, just to insinuate myself and keep tabs on everything. This us vs. them attitude (or holier than thou if you prefer) is awful and I plan to combat it by introducing her to more "worldlies" at volunteer events and other public stuff. But every time I plan something, it's "no, I have phone service this morning" or "I have a special meeting at the KH" or "I have to study my watchtower." Grrr. It seems like there is never a good reason for missing any type of JW event.

Sorry, just one of us worldlies venting.

9

Thinking about going to the memorial and...

by popcorn_eater in

partaking.. background: i have never been a jw.

i have been brought into their world (and the way better ex-jw world) through having a jw stepdaughter and extended family.

i have really come to love my stepdaughter and frankly all this jw stuff pisses me off to no end, as you all might imagine.

popcorn_eater

Wow, LS, thanks for all that background information; I was unaware (although I should have known) that it was that convoluted and what the background was ...

... but I think it would damage your relationship with your JW stepdaughter. It just depends on how good a sense of humour she has?

You could be right. she does have a great sense of humor but it does not seem to extend to things JW, which she gets a little defensive about despite her occasional misgivings.

As long as you appear to be a potential recruit, they will talk to you. Use that to corner them into having to answer questions that they have been programmed to not answer.

Subversive! I like it! I definitely plan to dress like a JW to get on their good side. I've been to a few meetings. I think my kid's mom knows I have ulterior motives and my kid wrote in her diary that she thinks I'm an ATHEIST. I'm trying to walk the line of insinuating myself and gathering information/planting seeds, but remaining noncommittal, without seeming like I am ready to be recruited. I spread out my attendance sporadically, the occasional meeting or gathering, and make nice to their friends but never anything beyond that.

But back to the Memorial, who wants to drink out of a cup that other people have also drunk out of? Yuck! Unappetizing. Even annointed people might have mono or cold sores.

Thanks for your responses, all.

9

Thinking about going to the memorial and...

by popcorn_eater in

partaking.. background: i have never been a jw.

i have been brought into their world (and the way better ex-jw world) through having a jw stepdaughter and extended family.

i have really come to love my stepdaughter and frankly all this jw stuff pisses me off to no end, as you all might imagine.

popcorn_eater

Partaking.

Background: I have never been a JW. I have been brought into their world (and the way better ex-JW world) through having a JW stepdaughter and extended family. I have really come to love my stepdaughter and frankly all this JW stuff pisses me off to no end, as you all might imagine. The more I research the more pissed I get. I come from a Methodist background and although I am agnostic now (with maybe atheistic leanings) I used to really think it was great that anyone who wanted to receive the bread and wine at communion was welcome. Learning about the JW approach to the memorial and those who are permitted to participate in the meal is repellant to me.

I have had fantasies about releasing this anger (and sending a message) by going to the memorial like my kid wants me to, and partaking. But part of me feels this is horribly disrespectful: I know the rules, it's their house I'm going into, it's not my place to screw with them. Another part of me, the pissed off part, wants to do it, just to mess with them and make the statement that anyone should be welcome to receive Jesus's sacrifice. I don't believe in the necessity of that sacrifice since I am not Christian, but I do believe that if it were true, it should be open to all. And finally, another part of me doesn't want to boost the partaker numbers. Maybe they wouldn't count me anyway.

I would welcome input on this, from those who know best.

14

Catching the Manipulation in Sundays Watchtower Article

by Butterflyleia85 in

inspired by many on jwn board, my goal is to every sunday study the article and find the manipulative parts.

if you would like to join me that would be great!

we can then find them together and then find what the scriptures or insights truly means with research, our own understanding, or maybe how it should be interpreted to ones self.

popcorn_eater

Love the idea of a weekly post along these lines. Blondie does her indepth comments/analysis but I like the idea of a condensed discussion specifically of manipulative language (AND images) that are used, to supplement her work. I generally make several pages of notes that I keep in a file weekly. Somehow it makes me feel better to know that at least some people are reading this stuff with a critical eye, and not just passively absorbing it.

In this past week's article there was a picture of a man struggling to "race" while pushing a wheelbarrow full of items the WT obviously considers to be distractions. The things in the wheelbarrow were mostly means of communication with the outside world -- phones, computers, I think a TV or VCR or something. Just more passive aggressive attempts to control the information you choose to seek out (for those wh control your access to information control you.) Oddly, though, an acoustic guitar was also in the wheelbarrow. So music is also forbidden. PUKE. Really this stuff is so manipulative it should be criminal.

I have my notes at home but I will maybe post some additional examples later. And next week's is full of fodder.

30

What is the WT's current stance on the age of the earth?

by popcorn_eater in

the reason i ask is i remember reading quite recently, in i think an "awake" mag about creation, that other churches confuse people by insisting on young earth creationism, which causes people to lose their faith.

the magazine was going off on groups and churches who insist on teaching science that conflicts with the bible (....).

i thought the wt was a proponent of this young earth creationism as well.

popcorn_eater

And, I do not think they have ever given up on the literal interpretation of bible ages for ancient characters who were supposed to have lived more than 900 literal years.

They still believe this, at least according to my kid, who said people lived longer back then because they were holier. Or something like that.

28

I just "witnessed" officially for the first time!!!

by NoRegrets in

i mean door to door (sort of), not informally to non-witness friends and family!.

so for a few weeks, i have suspected that my neighbor across the hall was being studied with by witnesses.

i wasn't sure but saw a couple of older women leaving with what looked like bibles, but never saw watchtower literature.

popcorn_eater

awesome! you could be saving her some major grief, or even her life. I suggest finding out from her what she likes about the studies and the witnesses so you can have a more targeted approach to her. She obviously either likes them (or finds the doctrines appealing), or has trouble saying no to them.

30

What is the WT's current stance on the age of the earth?

by popcorn_eater in

the reason i ask is i remember reading quite recently, in i think an "awake" mag about creation, that other churches confuse people by insisting on young earth creationism, which causes people to lose their faith.

the magazine was going off on groups and churches who insist on teaching science that conflicts with the bible (....).

i thought the wt was a proponent of this young earth creationism as well.

popcorn_eater

Interesting! and by interesting, i mean "puke." But what about the length of time that human beings have been on earth. Is there a number on that? Hey thanks for your responses.

30

What is the WT's current stance on the age of the earth?

by popcorn_eater in

the reason i ask is i remember reading quite recently, in i think an "awake" mag about creation, that other churches confuse people by insisting on young earth creationism, which causes people to lose their faith.

the magazine was going off on groups and churches who insist on teaching science that conflicts with the bible (....).

i thought the wt was a proponent of this young earth creationism as well.

popcorn_eater

The reason I ask is I remember reading quite recently, in I think an "Awake" mag about creation, that other churches confuse people by insisting on young earth creationism, which causes people to lose their faith. The magazine was going off on groups and churches who insist on teaching science that conflicts with the Bible (....). I thought the WT was a proponent of this young earth creationism as well. Maybe I'm wrong, or maybe there has been new light? I really need to know so I know how to approach teaching science to a certain JW young person I'm involved with, but I don't think I can stomach reading any more of their literature just now. THought I'd just ask the forum. What is the current teaching about the age of the earth and the length of time humans have been here?

Thanks in advance!

32

Homeschooling and JW children

by Pams girl in

how many jw kids are homeschooled where you are?

its not very common here in the borough where i live.

i just found out on the grapevine that a girl i know is taking her kids out of our very good primary school because she feels the other children are having such a bad influence on her kids.

popcorn_eater

so this is an older thread but just wanted to add my experience. My JW step kid is being homeschooled starting middle school this year. I think the main rationale is twofold - her mom just loves having absolute control over everything, which I guess is more of a personal issue than a JW issue, and also to have control over what science is taught (or in this case, NOT taught). The school is a virtual (computer-based) school that seems pretty cool as far as having a fairly challenging curriculum and interesting assignments. She watches videos of the teachers and sometimes chats with them and the ohter students. So far so good, but the biggest thing is the ISOLATION. she spends almost all her time either at the KH or on the computer. She has some friends at the KH but has been forbidden to socialize with non-JW neighborhood kids or call her old school friends. Her JW friends don't live near her and she does not see them often. She sees all these TV shows taking place at school and feels sad about never getting to experience the social aspects of school.

Those are my biggest concerns: Social aspects and lack of science. I geuss we'll have to chip away at that independently ourselves. We have been "forbidden" from her mom to help with the science projects and teaching. Jeez, what a joke. But not a funny one.

28

Why do we have to 'prove' anything to God. (This point made at assembly today)

by PaintedToeNail in

the point was made at the assembly today, that we have to 'prove' our love for jehovah to him.

as i sat there, bored, this thought struck me as odd.

since jehovah is supposed to be able to read 'hearts', why do we as humans, have to prove anything to him, since he already knows us down to our kidneys and would know if we loved him or not.

popcorn_eater

I've been making a point of "studying" the Study WT articles for the past year or so. I swear to god (haha), every single study article has some kind of emphasis on how you have to do X to remain desirable to Jehovah or to please Jehovah or for him to consider you worthy. Disgusting! Usually X = avoiding worldly people or situations, studying and attending meetings, following the rules, all the usual... I noticed the bible verses they tend to reference for this, which are generally either from the old testament or Acts, actually do use language about remaining in God's favor. The Bible is sort of along these lines, at least in my opinion. HOWEVER there are parts of the Bible that say the opposite and promise salvation for anyone who sincerely believes and seeks it (the grace thing). WT articles ignore the other verses that discuss being saved by grace, etc.

I attempted to bring this point up to my JW kid; it was a quote from Ephesians 2 I believe, about being saved by grace and not by our acts, which would give us cause for boasting. The article was in the July 2011 study issue and although it referenced this verse, there was NO discussion about it and then the next paragraph went right back to emphasizing how in order to please God you have to follow the rules of the WT organization. Hello???? Who proofreads these things? Unfortunately I actually attended this meeting and no one brought it up. I pointed out the conflict to her and asked her opinion about the verse and how we are saved, and she just waffled back and forth and couldn't articulate back to me the conflict or how it didn't make sense.

I personally don't think the Bible is a very good book to model one's life on, although everyone has a right to his or her own opinion on that matter. But it certainly DOES contain the idea that you must earn God's love, in certain places. It contradicts itself, just like the WT. The issue with the WT is that they only point out these parts and identify THEMSELVES, erroneously, as God's organization on earth, so that to follow THEIR rules means to please God. And if you don't, YOU DIE.

The fact is, the congregation and your JW family have conditional love for you, and so does Jehovah. Yuck.

popcorn_eater

Posts by popcorn_eater