Posts by ozziepost

report from the chicago sun-times.. note the arrogant assumption that non jw's have no clue why they are of a particular religion.. also the optimism about baptisms ("scores" = at least 40).. plus, there's that word qualified again!.

expatbrit.

tina, get down there with your placards and megaphone!.

ozziepost

encouraging people to study scripture for themselves

They've gotta be kidding!

What happens to anyone who tries? What happened at Brooklyn Bethel in 1980? etc etc

Ozzie

Freedom is not having to wear a tie.

4

Financial statements now available to view online

by expatbrit in

jw
friends

the financial statements for.

watchtower bible and tract society of pennsylvania.

watchtower bible and tract society of britain.

ozziepost

D'ya think Sir Fred is trying to emulate a certain Deputy Prime Minister by the name of Prestcott? Just let fly with the fists, no reasoned argument. Can't win with a loser like that!

Ozzie

Freedom is not having to wear a tie.

4

I.B.S.A. London (U.K.)

by MacHislopp in

jw
friends

it seems that someone doubted about the.

figures quoted by "expatbrrit" but look at this w.w.web page:.

key statistics .

ozziepost

Thanks for bringing this up again, Mac. I agree this could do with a bit more 'airing'.

When expatbrit posted the annual IBSA report (May 20), he made the comment "IBSA was recently closed down." Perhaps he has further information on that he could share with us.

From the report expatbrit posted I especially noted the duplicity of the Society in its statement of Objects and Activities

The principal activities of the Association are to support congregations of Jehovahs Witnesses and others.........within the charitable purposes of the Association. This is achieved mainly by........the promotion of the Christian religion by purchasing and distributing religious literature free of charge...

Oh yeah? Where does the donation arrangement for literature fit into that?

They sure know how to play around with words, don't they?

Cheers,
Ozzie

Freedom is not having to wear a tie.

14

Hate Your Enemies!!

by JWD in

jw
friends

i was standing by the copy machine at a convience store here in japan.

when a local elder who i`ve know for some years came up to me and.

threatened me (his breath had the distinct smell of a couple too many.

ozziepost

G'day JWD,

It didn't take too many years for the Joe Ratherflawed view of the world to take root in Japan, did it?

His vitriol in the 1920s and 1930s has established a culture within the organisation he founded. (I believe he was the founder of Jehovah's Witnesses, as opposed to C T Russell the founder of the Bible Students. But that's another story.)

The truth us, that the R&F are taught to hate. They are led to believe that 'righteous' hatred shows loyalty to Jehovah. This may be expressed in many ways, as you have experienced. But it really is emphasised in the disfellowshipping/disassociation procedure.

Just look at this sample selection of instructions from past issues of the Watchtower magazine.

Godly hate is a powerful protection against wrongdoing, even as godly love makes the doing of what is right a pleasure. (1 John 5:3) Repeatedly the Scriptures urge us to cultivate both love and hate. “O you lovers of Jehovah, hate what is bad.” (Psalm 97:10) “Abhor what is wicked, cling to what is good.” (Romans 12:9) Are we doing that?
Jehovah has clearly stated his purpose to root the wicked ones out of the earth and to usher in a new earth in which righteousness is to dwell. (Psalm 37:10, 11; 2 Peter 3:13) Lovers of righteousness long for that time to come. They are in full agreement with the psalmist David, who prayed: “O that you, O God, would slay the wicked one! Then even the bloodguilty men will certainly depart from me, who say things about you according to their idea; they have taken up your name in a worthless way—your adversaries.” (Psalm 139:19, 20).....They had misrepresented God, taking up his name in a worthless way. (Exodus 20:7) Dishonestly, they professed to serve him, but they were using his name to promote their own schemes. David had no love for those who chose to be God’s adversaries.
There are billions of people who do not know Jehovah. Many of them in ignorance practice things that God’s Word shows to be wicked. If they persist in this course, they will be among those who perish during the great tribulation. Yet, Jehovah takes no pleasure in the death of the wicked, nor should we. (Ezekiel 33:11) As long as time permits, we endeavor to help such people to learn and apply Jehovah’s ways. But what if some people show intense hatred for Jehovah?
Regarding them, the psalmist said: “Do I not hate those who are intensely hating you, O Jehovah, and do I not feel a loathing for those revolting against you? With a complete hatred I do hate them. They have become to me real enemies.” (Psalm 139:21, 22) It was because they intensely hated Jehovah that David looked on them with abhorrence. Apostates are included among those who show their hatred of Jehovah by revolting against him. Apostasy is, in reality, a rebellion against Jehovah. Some apostates profess to know and serve God, but they reject teachings or requirements set out in his Word. Others claim to believe the Bible, but they reject Jehovah’s organization and actively try to hinder its work. When they deliberately choose such badness after knowing what is right, when the bad becomes so ingrained that it is an inseparable part of their makeup, then a Christian must hate (in the Biblical sense of the word) those who have inseparably attached themselves to the badness. True Christians share Jehovah’s feelings toward such apostates; they are not curious about apostate ideas. On the contrary, they “feel a loathing” toward those who have made themselves God’s enemies, but they leave it to Jehovah to execute vengeance.—Job 13:16; Romans 12:19; 2 John 9, 10.(w93 10/1 19 "Search Through Me, O God")

Because the wicked were guilty of bloodshed and of bringing reproach on God’s name, David declared: “Do I not hate those who are intensely hating you, O Jehovah, and do I not feel a loathing for those revolting against you? With a complete hatred I do hate them. They have become to me real enemies.” (Psalm 139:21, 22) David felt a loathing for these men because they intensely hated Jehovah and were revolting against Him. They were the psalmist’s foes because he abhorred their wickedness, godlessness, and rebellion against the Most High.(w90 1/15 24 Jehovah Knows Us Well!)

THE GODLY QUALITY OF HATE
You have seen the benefit of godly love, but do you know how to hate? The Bible psalmist did, and said: “O you lovers of Jehovah, hate what is bad.” Also, he said: “Do I not hate those who are intensely hating you, O Jehovah, and do I not feel a loathing for those revolting against you? With a complete hatred I do hate them. They have become to me real enemies.” (Ps. 97:10; 139:21, 22) These very strong words are an expression of godly hate, and you too must have this quality to be pleasing to God.
Hate causes a feeling of disgust to well up inside you. You loathe, abhor, despise the object of your hatred. The very thought of it makes you recoil. When the wife of his master tempted, begged and even grabbed hold of Joseph for immoral purposes, he did not have to stop and try to reason out what he should do. A moment of hesitation could have meant ruining his relationship with Jehovah. He simply ran. His hatred of what was bad triggered an automatic reaction and protected his good conscience with God. (Gen. 39:7-12) Likewise today, as hatred separates people, godly hate will separate you from wrongdoing.
Why not ask yourself how you personally feel about the things that are detestable to Jehovah? “There are six things that Jehovah does hate; yes, seven are things detestable to his soul: lofty eyes, a false tongue, and hands that are shedding innocent blood, a heart fabricating hurtful schemes, feet that are in a hurry to run to badness, a false witness that launches forth lies, and anyone sending forth contentions among brothers.” (Prov. 6:16-19) Your reaction to these things is a measure of your godly hate.
Godly hatred never has as its object our Christian brothers, no matter how imperfect. The apostle John said: “Everyone who hates his brother is a manslayer, and you know that no manslayer has everlasting life remaining in him.” (1 John 3:15) Even though they have been involved in serious wrongdoing, we show compassion and mercy to our Christian brothers. If repentant wrongdoers are allowed to remain in the congregation by God, then we should also accept them.—Matt. 18:18.
Godly hatred is intolerant of what is evil. This does not mean that Christians use physical force to strike out against false religion or corrupt governments, for they realize that this is something God has reserved for himself. A Christian’s hatred of such things is demonstrated by his zeal to tell others what God’s Word says about the time when God’s kingdom will be the only government ruling this earth. Godly hatred is further characterized by a feeling of contempt toward such things as lying, stealing, immorality. A Christian’s conversation, way of life and choice of entertainment leave no question as to his stand on these matters.—Eph. 5:3-5.(w74 7/15 442-3 The Godly Qualities of Love and Hate)

HATE WHAT GOD HATES
Another way in which we imperfect and weak mortals can imitate God is by hating what he hates. Does God also hate? Yes, he hates wickedness and willfully wicked ones, including religious hypocrites. Did not Jesus imitate his Father in this respect and did he not hate religious hypocrites? He most certainly did, repeatedly saying: “Woe to you, scribes and Pharisees, hypocrites!”—Matt. 23:13-33; John 5:19.
That Jehovah God himself does indeed hate wickedness and practicers of what is wicked is seen from Proverbs 6:16-19: “There are six things that Jehovah does hate; yes, seven are things detestable to his soul: lofty eyes, a false tongue, and hands that are shedding innocent blood, a heart fabricating hurtful schemes, feet that are in a hurry to run to badness, a false witness . . . and anyone sending forth contentions among brothers.”
If we hate these things, what will we be doing? We will, on the one hand, be careful not to practice any such things ourselves, and, on the other hand, we will avoid having as companions those who practice such wicked things. “For what fellowship do righteousness and lawlessness have?” Truly, we can imitate God by being loyal to his righteous principles and so ‘be holy as he is holy.’—2 Cor. 6:14; 1 Pet. 1:16.(w73 2/15 100 "Become Imitators of God")

I have shown some key phrases in bold type. Notice how the writers of the above quoted articles influence the readers, the R&F, to accept that displaying hatred is a godly quality.

Joe Ratherflawed's legacy is safe in the hands of the present-day leadership.

Cheers,
Ozzie

Freedom is not having to wear a tie.

13

"Apostate!"

by Dogpatch in

jw
friends

one twit wrote:.

your apostate propaganda is the sorriest trash i've ever read in my entire life,.

let me guess, you were once stumbled by an imperfect person in the orginization right?

ozziepost

G'day Amazing,

I'm always 'surprised' by the demeanour that I have seen in recent years of these religious clergy and pastors, so long vilified in Watchtower literature. Having relied on the publications I always believed that these men were all the rotten things that the Watchtower said they were. But not now. After meeting and conversing with many from different denominations, I have found godly, humble men who love their God, their Bible, and their salvation. Quite unlike the elders I have known, and I include myself.

Cheers,
Ozzie

Freedom is not having to wear a tie.

4

A poll for long time observers

by Skimmer in

jw
friends

here is a little poll for you.

the following is a lit of my predictions for changes for the wtbts and is presented in no particular order.

the idea here is to see if there is some kind of concensus concerning in what order the changes will occur.

ozziepost

G'day Skimmer,

Never
=====
4. Dropping or otherwise radically changing the entire "anointed"/144,000/partaking doctrine.
6. Dropping or otherwise radically making more liberal the disfellowship/shunning doctrine.
17. Starting their own direct mail advertising/soliciting program.
18. Starting their own telemarketing advertising/soliciting program.
19. Publish a successor to the _Proclaimers_ book with a complete history presented in chronological order and told with candor and honesty.
20. Drop or otherwise radically change the doctrine that all other religions are run by Satan.
21. Start passing a collection plate at meetings.
22. Membership drop to half (three million) of the current count.
27. Elimination of nearly all judical activity.

LIKELY IN THE NEAR FUTURE
=========================
5. Allowing non-anointed to serve on the governing body.
11. Have at least five consecutive years of decreasing worldwide membership counts.
28. Cooperation with third party "do not call" registries.
29. Dropping secret files at the congregation level.
30. Dropping secret files at the branch level.

LIKELY IN THE MEDIUM TERM
=========================
1. Dropping or otherwise radically changing the 607BC/1914AD doctrine.
2. Dropping or otherwise radically changing the 1935 date of the "sealing" of the anointed.
3. Allowing blood transfusions as a "conscience mattter".
7. Allowing some interfaith activities as a "conscience matter".
8. Starting some real charitable programs.
9. Eliminating field service reporting.
10. Provide their own Internet service or browser software so that they can filter information to the rank and file.
12. Start their own offical college/university with a serious attempt at accreditation.
13. Stop the open publication of detailed statisitics.
14. Hire out surplus printing capacity to other organizations.
15. Starting their own radio station or network.
16. Starting their own cable TV program or channel.
23. Make available nearly all literature in electronic format.
24. Formal supported organization of youth activities (dances, camping trips, sports, etc).
25. Allow military service as a "conscience matter."
26. Allow flag salute or standing up for a national anthem as a "conscience matter."

After doing all that, we are left with one question, So what? !
Seriously, the list is relevant amd from what we have seen and experienced, change ('light getting brighter')is inevitable.

Cheers,
Ozzie

Freedom is not having to wear a tie.

6

Language Course for Sydney BBQ (Lesson 6)

by ozziepost in

jw
friends

well, here it is, the final lesson in our language course to prepare us for this weekend's sydney bbq.. how ya been goin'?.

there'll be time at the end of this lesson to review the full course.. today we're going to consider what to say to those experiencing emotional distress, or how to recognise it in someone you meet.. 1. the old man's shot through = my husband's left town.

2. can i bot a fag?

ozziepost

G'day Had Enough,

No worries, mate!

Cheers,
Ozzie

Freedom is not having to wear a tie.

7

Qualified bible teachers?

by expatbrit in

jw
friends

here's a snippet from www.watchtower.org:.

jehovah's witnesses provide personal and group instruction in the bible at no charge.

if you would like to have a qualified bible teacher visit you in your home or at some other convenient place, this will gladly be arranged by jehovah's witnesses.. .

ozziepost

G'day you Brits,

'qualified' in Watchtower-ese means to be approved.

Like so many other words used in the Watchtower publications, there is a hidden meaning to the 'face value' of those words.

How many others can we think of? Care to make a list?

Cheers,
Ozzie

Freedom is not having to wear a tie.

29

Will You Make Room for Pioneering?

by TMS in

jw
friends

regardless of scriptural implications, creating special categories of service such as colporteur, pioneer, special pioneer, etc.

was a brilliant move.. the prestige, status and few little perks associated with those committing to being full-time workers is miniscule compensation for their sacrifice of time, lifestyle, income and educational opportunities.. yes, the hour requirements have dropped on several occasions.

how many on the board know that the regular pioneer requirement was once 150 hours a month, then 1200 hours a year, than 1000, now 90-vacation/assembly time?.

ozziepost

G'day noway,

Isn't it strange how Fred will support expressions like 'pioneer' and 'organisation' which are not in the Bible, but when it comes to 'Trinity', well...!!

Ozzie

Freedom is not having to wear a tie.