Posts by tootired2care

44

A personal message to you lurking Jehovah's Witnesses out there

by Terry in

while you were sitting in that uncomfortable folding chair the other night.... listening to something you've heard already a thousand times before.... do you know what was happening at the same time?.

somebody somewhere else was studying a real textbook.

somebody was cramming for a college exam.

tootired2care

Well stated Terry, marked.

52

My latest university experience...

by Billy the Ex-Bethelite in

jw
friends

this isn't a jw experience, but for those of you that have been following my life, i thought i'd have a drink and share this strange event in my post-jw life.. for you wonderful newbies, you can catch up on highlights of my story in the few threads i've started here.

i'm finishing the junior year of my engineering degree and the classes are hard as hell.

i used to be among the smartest students in the room until i hit the 300 level university courses.

tootired2care

Thanks for sharing, that is really cool; who would have thought that there is a whole world of exiting possiblities and nice people outside of the JWHell! I just started going back to college too, I think it's one of the best ways to really give the middle finger to the WT, and help out oneself in the process.

Cheers

16

If Jesus arrived in Kingdom Power in 1914....is he a lame-duck savior?

by Big Mama in

interesting scripture at 1 cor.

11:14 " for as often as you eat this loaf and drink this cup, you keep proclaiming the death of the lord, until he arrives.

" the teaching and belief of jehovah's witnesses is that jesus took kingdom power in the heavens in 1914 at the same time throwing satan out and down to the vicinity of the earth.

tootired2care

Great logic, I think I'll use this when my father hounds me for not attending this year.

35

Do you blame Jehovah, Yahweh, God, Jesus, etc. for the corruption of the borg?

by Fading Begins in

jw
friends

do you hold god accountable for the corruption of the borg?

i've noticed there seems to be a bitterness, by some, that includes "god" in the equation, when discussing the borg and their policies, the governing body, elders actions, etc.

do the borg's transgressions originate with god, or does he feel the same disgust as we do?

tootired2care

They were never pure to begin with, and I guess to a large extent I do blame the concept of god, Jehovah, Yahweh, Allah etc. for all of the pain and loss. I say concept of god, because I no longer believe that there is a personal god who is actually involved in human affairs. It makes me cringe to think that there could even be a remote possibility of some almighty personal god out there, who intentionally allows earths masses to wallow in confusion about him. A god who has communication skills that are beneath primitive human standards of consistent and clear communication, is just not worth the time.

The Watchtower is just another in a long list of misguided organizations that have only sought to control people using the so called "inspired" bible as their authority. I hope some day that people will stop giving people like the WT$ popes power, who only end up causing so much pain and loss.

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When I became convinced that the Universe is natural -- that all the ghosts and gods are myths, there entered into my brain, into my soul, into every drop of my blood, the sense, the feeling, the joy of freedom. The walls of my prison crumbled and fell, the dungeon was flooded with light and all the bolts, and bars, and manacles became dust. I was no longer a servant, a serf or a slave. There was for me no master in all the wide world -- not even in infinite space. I was free -- free to think, to express my thoughts -- free to live to my own ideal -- free to live for myself and those I loved -- free to use all my faculties, all my senses -- free to spread imagination's wings -- free to investigate, to guess and dream and hope -- free to judge and determine for myself -- free to reject all ignorant and cruel creeds, all the "inspired" books that savages have produced, and all the barbarous legends of the past -- free from popes and priests -- free from all the "called" and "set apart" -- free from sanctified mistakes and holy lies -- free from the fear of eternal pain -- free from the winged monsters of the night -- free from devils, ghosts and gods. For the first time I was free. There were no prohibited places in all the realms of thought -- no air, no space, where fancy could not spread her painted wings -- no chains for my limbs -- no lashes for my back -- no fires for my flesh -- no master's frown or threat -- no following another's steps -- no need to bow, or cringe, or crawl, or utter lying words. I was free. I stood erect and fearlessly, joyously, faced all worlds.

And then my heart was filled with gratitude, with thankfulness, and went out in love to all the heroes, the thinkers who gave their lives for the liberty of hand and brain -- for the freedom of labor and thought -- to those who fell on the fierce fields of war, to those who died in dungeons bound with chains -- to those who proudly mounted scaffold's stairs -- to those whose bones were crushed, whose flesh was scarred and torn -- to those by fire consumed -- to all the wise, the good, the brave of every land, whose thoughts and deeds have given freedom to the sons of men. And then I vowed to grasp the torch that they had held, and hold it high, that light might conquer darkness still.

Let us be true to ourselves -- true to the facts we know, and let us, above all things, preserve the veracity of our souls.

If there be gods we cannot help them, but we can assist our fellow-men. We cannot love the inconceivable, but we can love wife and child and friend.

We can be as honest as we are ignorant. If we are, when asked what is beyond the horizon of the known, we must say that we do not know. We can tell the truth, and we can enjoy the blessed freedom that the brave have won. We can destroy the monsters of superstition, the hissing snakes of ignorance and fear. We can drive from our minds the frightful things that tear and wound with beak and fang. We can civilize our fellow-men. We can fill our lives with generous deeds, with loving words, with art and song, and all the ecstasies of love. We can flood our years with sunshine -- with the divine climate of kindness, and we can drain to the last drop the golden cup of joy.

Ingersoll

121

Where is Jehovah?

by His Excellency in

jw
friends

how do we reconcile those bullshits being told at the meetings about how jehovah's eyes are upon us and how his figurative wings serves as protection to those who are destitute with the condition of these sickly sudanese refugees at this camp.. .

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=oihlh1xd2lu&feature=g-all-u.

tootired2care

Do you think that because people don't agree that this makes something false?

If it purports to be the only path to salvation (via a god who claims to be impartial), and yet it's a completely foreign concept to much of earths population after 2,000+ years, yea I guess I do.

121

Where is Jehovah?

by His Excellency in

jw
friends

how do we reconcile those bullshits being told at the meetings about how jehovah's eyes are upon us and how his figurative wings serves as protection to those who are destitute with the condition of these sickly sudanese refugees at this camp.. .

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=oihlh1xd2lu&feature=g-all-u.

tootired2care

Just have to look at and follow Christ.

I'm sure the millions of Muslims and people of other faiths would not agree, so there must be more to it than that.

121

Where is Jehovah?

by His Excellency in

jw
friends

how do we reconcile those bullshits being told at the meetings about how jehovah's eyes are upon us and how his figurative wings serves as protection to those who are destitute with the condition of these sickly sudanese refugees at this camp.. .

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=oihlh1xd2lu&feature=g-all-u.

tootired2care

by listening to Christ first and foremost, over anything else in the world. (not sure I always get this last bit right, but I am learning

I know... it's very confusing to be commanded to live in the world, and at the same time be no part of the world, but good luck with that!

121

Where is Jehovah?

by His Excellency in

jw
friends

how do we reconcile those bullshits being told at the meetings about how jehovah's eyes are upon us and how his figurative wings serves as protection to those who are destitute with the condition of these sickly sudanese refugees at this camp.. .

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=oihlh1xd2lu&feature=g-all-u.

tootired2care

God's message is clear. Listen to my Son.

So do you "go therefore and make disciples" and remain "no part of this world"? If so how?

121

Where is Jehovah?

by His Excellency in

jw
friends

how do we reconcile those bullshits being told at the meetings about how jehovah's eyes are upon us and how his figurative wings serves as protection to those who are destitute with the condition of these sickly sudanese refugees at this camp.. .

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=oihlh1xd2lu&feature=g-all-u.

tootired2care

And in the OT itself, the law is spoken of having been handled by the lying pen of the scribes. So tell me how these things jive with your... either he accepted it or he didn't?

I don't need to, perhaps since you hear Christ he'll tell you why he made those statements that show he endorsed the law in those versus I posted above that are his quotes. I know... so many contradictions and confusion.

He came as the Truth, to show the Truth of God. He came as the Word of God. Not to point to something else as being the word of God.

It is very simple. Look to Christ to see God. Not the Israelites (often hard-hearted, who needed the law written on stone tablets because the law could not be written upon their hearts) Not the law (lying pen of the scribes, and also given due to those hard hearts). Not Moses (who prophecies that we are to listen to the One who comes after him) Not the scriptures (which make no such statement about themselves). Not the bible (which is not even one book, much less claiming to be inerrant)

It wasn't the isrealites that ordered a genocide and sat by and watched it happen that was god and Jesus, "truth" does not look too appealing when you look at those pesky facts. We should expect better from an almighty being.

I cannot prove it.

Thanks for admitting that. Don't you think it's a somewhat reasonable request of an almighty to identify the truth about him and what he wants so that there is no ambiguity there?

God's message is clear. Listen to my Son.

Saying the words doesn't make it so, see the last point. All I and millions of others hear is the wind blowing.

B) Christ did not look at the OT as truth. You have no reason to think this. He corrected things from the law, and revealed the Truth instead. "You have heard it said, but i tell you now..."

In fact I do have reason to think this, that is why I quoted several gospel scriptures which show that Jesus accepted the law as truth. Think of all the times he stated "it is written..." would he keep saying that if he didn't believe it?

Translations and copying, etc, are not inerrant. (again, woe to you scribes)

So do you deny that god did give Israel that command to enter the promised land and slaughter all of the people that were already there?

Do you think that those are the first or last instance that someone used God's name to demand that others go to war and utterly destroy one's enemies?

No I don't, and again therein lies the big problem with religion and god to my original point. God allowing that confusion to continue to fester shows a total lack of love and leadership.

121

Where is Jehovah?

by His Excellency in

jw
friends

how do we reconcile those bullshits being told at the meetings about how jehovah's eyes are upon us and how his figurative wings serves as protection to those who are destitute with the condition of these sickly sudanese refugees at this camp.. .

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=oihlh1xd2lu&feature=g-all-u.

tootired2care

This is an assumption. A couple of assumptions actually. That a) referencing occurrances in the past means that He believed everything written was both infallable AND true AND from God. But this cannot be true, since in the OT, there are references to 'lying pen of the scribes has handled the law falsely', and Christ, Himself is written to have said 'woe to you scribes'.

If they had the truth, then there would have been no need for THE Truth to come and teach. So if you want to know the truth, then look to Christ. Not the OT.

Either Christ accepted it or he didn't, there is no get out clause here for someone that was all knowing. He had a perfect opportunity to call Jehovah out on his bullsh1t and he never did; I guess he wouldn't given that he is the perfect image of the genocidal god. The fact is you and many other Christian religions are drawing your faith from the same source, just the fact that you have your own interpretation of that source - which differs greatly from so many other mainstream Christian faiths - that only parts of the bible are true, proves my point. How can you definitively prove that your right, and they are wrong? Gods message is unclear and confusing, and that is why there are so many interpretations and problems that stem from this confusion about what god wants.

If they had the truth, then there would have been no need for THE Truth to come and teach. So if you want to know the truth, then look to Christ. Not the OT.

“For truly, I say to you, till heaven and earth pass away, not an iota, not a dot, will pass the law until all is accomplished. Whoever then relaxes one of the least of these commandments and teaches men so, shall be called least in the kingdom of heaven; but he who does them and teaches them shall be called great in the kingdom of heaven.” (Matthew 5:18-19 RSV)

"It is easier for Heaven and Earth to pass away than for the smallest part of the letter of the law to become invalid." (Luke 16:17 NAB)

“Did not Moses give you the law, and yet none of you keepeth the law" (John7:19) and “For the law was given by Moses,..." (John 1:17)

"For I say to you that this which is written must still be accomplished in Me: 'And He was numbered with the transgressors.' For the things concerning Me have an end. Yes, what is written about me is reaching its fulfillment. " ( Luke 22:37 )

"It is also written in your law that the testimony of two men is true." ( John 8:17 )

Christ looked at the OT as truth, the OT was good enough for him, why isn't it for you?

I still don't know what you are talking about here.

Perhaps this will jog your memory.

"When the LORD thy God shall bring thee into the land whither thou goest to possess it, and hath cast out many nations before thee, the Hittites, and the Girgashites, and the Amorites, and the Canaanites, and the Perizzites, and the Hivites, and the Jebusites, seven nations greater and mightier than thou; And when the LORD thy God shall deliver them before thee; thou shalt smite them, and utterly destroy them; thou shalt make no covenant with them, nor shew mercy unto them" (Deuteronomy 7;1,2). Again, in the book of Deuteronomy we read, "But of the cities of these people, which the LORD thy God doth give thee for an inheritance, thou shalt save alive nothing that breatheth: But thou shalt utterly destroy them … as the Lord thy God hath commanded thee" (20:16,17).