Pathofthorns

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Posts by Pathofthorns

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  41

  Ray Franz -some personal recollections.

  by Gilgamesh in

  1. watchtower
  2. child-abuse

  this is my first post.

  please forgive its length, its bad timing, its preachiness, its prejudices, etc.

  it's just one more opinion that i feel obligated to add.

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  Pathofthorns

  nice post

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  5

  Does it really matter if people think it's real?

  by kenpodragon in

  1. watchtower
  2. beliefs

  the common thing now a days in media is to try to disprove the likes of john edwards and to say that these men are frauds.

  in reality though, when i see this happen i wonder how such people feel when they see evidence that perhaps jesus christ did not exist, or that evolution might be right.

  the answer is, they would not like it.

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  Pathofthorns

  I can say i am not terribly thrilled that at one time I thought the JW religion was "real". That belief being false DID matter to me since beliefs of that sort ultimately end up facing reality and can have painful consequences.

  So I think sometimes it does matter but there are more times that it does not. It is mostly the responsibility of each individual person to make sure their life is as "real" as they want it to be i guess.

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  7

  Calling all Pioneers

  by hamptonite21 in

  1. jw
  2. friends

  if you were a pioneer and still have your book from pioneer school, could you please ck the section it refers too on holidays.

  i could have sworn during class that they said that birthdays were allowed, just the cake and singing were pagan.

  am i wrong on this?

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  Pathofthorns

  I specifically remember at my pioneer school answering a question to the effect that celebrating a birthday was not a disfellowshipping offence. I can't recall the reason why the question was asked.

  JW's believe by inference the Bible is telling them birthdays are wrong, but since there is no specific command not to celebrate them it is not specifically a disfellowshipping offence.

  However you would not be entitled to hold "privileges" and you could get disfellowshipped on technicallities depending on how you celebrated your birthday or if you were somehow advocating and openly encouraging other JWs to do this.

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  21

  Elders admit huge numbers leaving

  by mamashel in

  1. watchtower
  2. child-abuse

  .

  my daughters boyfriend was at his moms the other night and the elders just happened to stop by and talk with him.. anyhow, after their discussion about him and my daughter and the baby and what they are going to do, (havent been to meetings in 7 months mind you), her boyfriend told the elders that he no longer wanted to attend meetings and my daughter told them the same.. the elders admitted to them that there is a huge number of people that felt the same way, and the halls are much emptier than they ever were.. hmmm, i wonder why?.

  mamashel

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  Pathofthorns

  I think that in addition to the high numbers of young people leaving, they are particularly concerned over the increasing numbers of long-time Witnesses suddenly "disappearing" along with elders resigning.

  In any given circuit it is a good probability that it is now scattered with these people that have quietly left and there are obvious undercurrents of dissatisfaction that will inevitably result in further departures.

  At some point this will form an atmosphere of distrust leading to "witchhunts" and what has long been happening quietly and secretly will be pushed into the spotlight.

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  181

  Bill Bowen's Comments on Ray Franz

  by silentlambs in

  1. jw
  2. friends

  i wish them peace.

  at the end of the conversation i did not feel we were in agreement.

  for similar reasons i believe ray has not supported the issue of child abuse being a problem in the organization to media and by personal comments to persons who ask him privately about this.

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  Pathofthorns

  The movie "Silence of the Lambs" was also the first thing that came into my mind when I heard of "Silentlambs". But I wouldn't personally criticize Bill's choosing that particular name. Imo it is just not something that needs to be an issue.

  I do think that at this point in time though that a name change might be something beneficial to consider. Victims certainly are no longer "silent" and often they are not just "lambs". They have been empowered and are strong and have spoken out. At this point in time, the present name doesn't reflect the progress of the movement and can almost be perceived as a bit demeaning to survivors of this crime.

  A name change also could signify a fresh start with a renewed focus. If the disorder of the past weeks has resulted in positive changes to prevent self-defeating mistakes a name change could reflect these positive changes. It would also place the focus back on the issue where it belongs and not on the person of Bill Bowen who seemed to be too synonymous with the name Silentlambs.

  Just a suggestion for what its worth.

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  37

  I am tired of all this ray v.s bill why can't we..

  by Jesika in

  1. jw
  2. friends

  why can't we all just drop it.

  talking this to death won't change anything!!!!!!!!!

  i don't understand the reason or need to "take sides".

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  Pathofthorns

  There comes a point when an issue reaches it's saturation point and no matter how valid or how unresolved it is, people will be sick to death of it. Politics at this point will force everyone to stand down from the debate because the people discussing it will become the focus instead of the issue itself.

  But just because the debates cease and the criticisms end, it doesn't mean the situation has really been resolved. Hopefully the silenlambs group will use the lull in the storm to do a bit of shuffling and take steps to prevent these sorts of careless mistakes from happening in the future.

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  20

  Place your bets please!!!

  by nicolaou in

  1. social
  2. current

  the 2002 service report will be out soon [trembles with anticipation].

  last year we had 8730 memorial partakers, how many do you think we'll have now?

  will a noticeable decline be a cause for excitement among the masses?

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  Pathofthorns

  There are so many factors that play into this particularly meaningless statistic that it is very difficult to say. I would imagine this is one statistic where there is substancial "interference" on the part of the Society and local elders.

  On one hand you have strong upward pressure on these numbers due to increasing numbers of people reading COC or in the infancy of departure feel they are "annointed". On the other hand you have the downward momentum of older people dying, elders refusing to count "apostate" partakers and the Society's own desire for the numbers to decrease.

  Personally I feel that the control the Society has in this matter will outweigh any increase in new partakers. I speculate a decrease of around 30 persons. Perhaps something like 8698 will psychologically break through the 8700 mark to give them the appearance more have recieved their "heavenly calling".

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  181

  Bill Bowen's Comments on Ray Franz

  by silentlambs in

  1. jw
  2. friends

  i wish them peace.

  at the end of the conversation i did not feel we were in agreement.

  for similar reasons i believe ray has not supported the issue of child abuse being a problem in the organization to media and by personal comments to persons who ask him privately about this.

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  Pathofthorns

  I am not really sure what to say. I do know that I'm not interested in further perpetuating what has become a tired and old subject. While not adequately addressing all concerns your post is certainly a step in the right direction.

  I am cautiously optimistic and hopeful for you and your future efforts and wish you the best.

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  44

  My DA Letter

  by LB in

  1. jw
  2. friends

  i thought about writing "i quit" but it got a little wordier than i expected.

  but i'm sending this off monday morning.

  i've used a little info gathered here on this site but mostly it's my thoughts.

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  Pathofthorns

  The best thing imo is to send it to the elders about 2 days after everyone else in the hall gets it. You show how little u think of the elders and you prevent them from warning everyone before they have a chance to read it.

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  44

  My DA Letter

  by LB in

  1. jw
  2. friends

  i thought about writing "i quit" but it got a little wordier than i expected.

  but i'm sending this off monday morning.

  i've used a little info gathered here on this site but mostly it's my thoughts.

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  Pathofthorns

  One of the coolest DA letters I've ever read. And I think the elder will actually read it and even think a bit about his own dishonesty in downplaying leaving the religion. Nice bit of writing from the heart.

  Path