Posts by patio34

12

Demons & Possession--New Teaching?

by patio34 in

jw
friends

whilst reading the bible straight thru this last time (& probably is the last time) i noticed an odd thing.

i'll just throw it out on the table and see what it brings.. starting in the gospels, demons and demon-possession seem to be very common and no one seems shocked.

in fact, casting out demons is a definite part of the disciples'and jesus' work.. but, in the ot, there is nary a mention of demon possession, nor rarely a word about demons at all.

patio34

Whilst reading the Bible straight thru this last time (& probably is the LAST time) I noticed an odd thing. I'll just throw it out on the table and see what it brings.

Starting in the gospels, demons and demon-possession seem to be very common and no one seems shocked. In fact, casting out demons is a definite part of the disciples'and Jesus' work.

But, in the OT, there is nary a mention of demon possession, nor rarely a word about demons at all.

How did this come about? Is it because Jesus was present and therefore brought them to the fore? Or could it be (and this is my thought) that it was part of the religion of peoples dominating the Israelites for the past 400 years since Malachi was written? Say, the Persians, etc.?

Any comments?

Patio

6

"Human entrails and the river of blood&quo...

by CornerStone in

jw
friends

went to the sunday meeting today.

the talk was the same old same old about judgement day, field service, and other things i have all ready forgotten.

by the time the talk was over i was trying to stay awake but the wt study sure opened my eyes for me in a way a few "no-doze" could never do.

patio34

Greetings to all,
It certainly is true about the fear element in the WTS, esp. to kids. And, Waiting, in the Catholic Church. A num said picture the pain when a match burns your finger, then picture it all over your body--forever!

However, it occurs to me that religions' scare tactics comes from the Bible itself. After all, the WTS, etc., are using the Bible for those graphic descriptions. True, it talks about love, etc., but plenty about bloodspilling.

Patio

26

Bad Defensive Arguments

by AlanF in

jw
friends

a bozo calling itself "shiningone" recently posted on the h2o board some typically bad arguments supposedly defending the bible.

i posted a rebuttal to a number of specific points, which is reproduced below.

guess what the response was.. those familiar with jw teaching will recognize some of the bad defensive arguments.. <hr>.

patio34

Alan,
That is a an enlightening refutation of fundies' points. I have to say, I didn't know any of that.

Java,
Your analogy of building on sand and the waves knocking out the foundation describes my experience. When a jw, I just stopped reading so many items in the news and some books, because they undermined my "faith." Now, I read them all. Have a lot of learning to do.

Patio

18

I see little good left in WTS

by Amazing in

jw
friends

you said, "so would it be wrong to accept the fact that the wts, despite its flaws, has many good scriptural truths to share.".

i think most of us accept that the wts has done some good, but as the years pass, i find that the good i thought they did is getting less and less, and more importantly, the harm caused is getting greater than i could possibly imagine.. you continued, "can we reject what they have pressed to the world: god has a name, his kingdom is to solve mans problems, the earth is to become a paradise as god purposed, man will live endlessly on earth as intended, those who died will return in a resurrection of the dead rather that burn in hell, and this good news is to be preached in all the earth.".

at this point in my life, after 25 years of being a jw and now an ex-jw, i find their message, its very root concepts, pure fantasy that may not necessarily god's will.

patio34

One possibility is that the ancients invented religion because they didn't understand how anything worked (e.g., lightning, thunder, earthquakes, etc.) so they gave a magical, "god" explanation to it. But today it is understood how much works, so the magical explanation can be discarded.

One book I read on cults likened religion to fairy tales because there is evil, the main character is rather helpless, a mythical fairy godmother-like individual takes care of them--a parent-like figure in a lot of them. The main character does not exact revenge, but someone else does.

Any resemblence the above has to, say, er, the Bible is purely unintentional.

Patio

13

The "Final solution" Watchtower style.

by Norm in

jw
friends

the final solution watchtower style.. we have been told on this board lately that the watchtower society preach the good news and that is one of the good things that set them apart from christendom.

people who call the watchtower society message good news has hopefully never really given much thought to what is going to happen if their good news should become reality.

let us investigate what these good news is all about.. the 22. may, 1999 issue of awake!

patio34

Norm,
Kudos on that post! I remember placing that magazine and blush now. But I was placing under the influence of WTS.

I remarked to my son who was saying how fair the Israelites were when conquering the Canaanites that they offered them a chance to surrender. Some chance! It's the same idea today, be a jw or be killed.

Patio

11

Life After Armageddon

by CoolBreeze in

jw
friends

this was one of many aspects of my studies that gave me real problem.

i figured out that there was no way i was going to be in any %0.01 survivor group.

and if i was; all those rules and restrictions wouldn't really make it a paradise on earth for me.

patio34

Dear Waiting,
Well, of course, we don't know all these answers (and about the tractors--how on earth does one get gasoline without big oil drills and refineries?), becasue God is going to do so many miracles as he did in the past. such as flooding the earth (that doesn't make sense); parting the Red Sea (that doesn't hold water!); and how all these tales seem to be pre-written in other cultures. We, of the "non-imaginative" class, can't figure it all out!
Btw, did anyone ever read "Lucifer's Hammer" by Larry Nivens? It's a story about a giant meteor wiping out civilization and what the survivors have to do. Also, the BOOK--not the crummny movie--"The Postman" by David Bruin is of the genre and really a thought-provoker as to whether it's not right to fight to protect one's family and community.
Have a great day!
Patio

28

I am materialistic

by expatbrit in

jw
friends

last week i had a phone conversation with my family back in england.

my parents had figured out that something wasn't usual about my attitude to the "truth", so they started grilling me: have i been to meetings?

going in field service?

patio34

The scary thing is I can remember thinking the same way about people who left--rationalizing it "under the influence" of the WTS AND the Bible verses they cited.
Now, the labels I've heard about, so far, is that I missed too many meetings (because of my health), and then the doubts started in.
Really, all of this speaks volumes of the "newspeak" of the org. There are some things inconceivable to them. Those labels certainly say a lot more about the jws than of us.
Patio

21

Kingdom Hall thinning out?

by OrangeBlossom in

jw
friends

i was thinking about the post about japan closing about 300 congregations in the past 3 years.

i know that the hall i occasionally go to is usually less than half full compared to a few years ago.

my mom says that the elders in her hall are trying to come up with ways to get more to attend as attendance is really bad.

patio34

The same here in Ventura, CA. It seems the ones that do attend always get the same lectures about the ones who don't attend. At least, when I was attending.

Patio

29

trying to understand

by DixieDarlin07148 in

jw
friends

i'm 18 and my boyfriend is 16 and an active jw.i'm a baptist and very stong in my belief and love of god.my boyfriend and i haven't been together that long but were very serious and plan on getting married (when the time is right).we both know that we have no intentions of raising our children jw but as baptist and he tells me that he wants to get out of jw but right now its very hard for him because he still lives with his parents and his mother and oldest sister are very active jw.and i understand all that its just that because i love him so much i want to understand about his life and the way he was raised and what he was raised to believe but hes made it very clear that he doesnt want to explain it or talk about it hes told me some stuff but very little.i'm just wondering about their beliefs and what the jw's have to say about us dating and just any information anyone can provide!!!

!thank-you very much!!!!

!

patio34

Jst2laws,
I'll bet this is the ONLY place you express such frank opinions about the WTS. Because, probably not only would you be removed posthaste, but may even be df'd as an apostate. I have doubts and opinions too, but its verboten to discuss this among jws. Verboten by the WTS. How totalitarian!

8

Things That Make You Go Hhmmm. . .Samson

by dark clouds in

jw
friends

for a long time i have thought about yahweh, and the kind of deity that he was.

leader, savior, protector of the israelites, quick to strike down anyone who dared oppose him.

his compassion seemed to be masked beneath his jealous nature, but he had his reason and it was for "spiritual cleanliness".

patio34

In the last couple of months the New York Times ran an article "Samson, A Personality Disorder with Muscles." But, at that time I didn't want to read conflicting things with the borg. Now I'll try to retrieve it.

Another thing you can add to the h-m-m-m list: how did the Pharoah chase Moses & Company with all those horses pulling the chariots if part of the plagues had destroyed all the animals of Egypt? (Ex. chap 9)

It sure is all different when you're not "under the influence" of the borg.

Patio