patio34

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Posts by patio34

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  50

  Evolution Anyone???

  by Steve Josef in

  1. watchtower
  2. beliefs

  i read alot of posts and it seems that though you all (or most) have left the kh, you still believe in a "father" or a "jesus" that created everything.

  since i too and one that left the kh, i have delved into science and have come the conculsion that god does not exist in a spirit form, but is life itself.

  the "creator" of all things is evolution.

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  patio34

  Hi Steve,

  I just posted on the thread Larc recommended. But will repeat it here. A year or 2 ago i would have said evolution is ridiculous, as most jws and creationists say. However, I had never read ONE BOOK by a scientist explaining evolution. When I removed the blinders and actually listened to the other side, it is becoming more plausible and the Bible/Creationism more implausible.

  The point is that I was ignorant of the facts the scientists have amassed because all I ever read was the WTBS stuff. Which is grossly biased and misleading.

  Pat
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  10

  The Good, The Bad and Evolution

  by Defender in

  1. jw
  2. friends

  in the bible account of genesis, there we were told that adam and eve ate from the forbidden tree of knowledge of good and bad and thus, like god, they started to know good and bad.

  these few words and actions apparently changed the course of humanity.

  even if we assume that this account is just a fable and did not actually happen, a number of questions and issues come up namely;.

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  patio34

  Rem,

  Thanks for that chart. Sorry, I've been remiss in checking the board. That's very helpful.

  What it seems to me is that people, especially ex-jws and jws state emphatically that evolution is patently false. I know, i did too.

  However, after having removed the blinders and ACTUALLY READ A BOOK or two on the subject AND LISTENED TO AN EXPERT in the field, it is very plausible.

  But what do I know: I believed the WT for 28 years!

  I may never trust my own judgment again!

  Pat
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  27

  One God--Moses 1st?

  by patio34 in

  1. watchtower
  2. beliefs

  i've been doing a little research into a pharoah named akhenaten.

  been coming up with some variances in dates and would like to know if anyone else has run across this info.. akhenaten (amenhotep iv) reigned 1379-1362 bc.

  according to 'the bible timeline' moses was born in 1355 bc, right after akhenaten.

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  patio34

  I've been doing a little research into a Pharoah named Akhenaten. Been coming up with some variances in dates and would like to know if anyone else has run across this info.

  Akhenaten (Amenhotep IV) reigned 1379-1362 BC. According to 'The Bible Timeline' Moses was born in 1355 BC, right after Akhenaten.

  Akhenaten was unique because he introduced the monotheistic worship of the sun god, Aten. Some have theorized that his religious ideas influenced Moses's promotion of one god.

  The WT has said that Israel was unique in this, but they weren't the 1st. Akhenaten was.

  The Insight book puts Moses as born in 1593 BC, which is 230 some years difference. But other sources put it close to Akhenaten.

  Has any one run across this and can add to it?

  Pat
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  7

  Fighting the Internet

  by terraly in

  1. jw
  2. friends

  apparently the taliban agrees with the watchtower on the evils of free information:.

  http://dailynews.yahoo.com/h/nm/20010713/wr/tech_afghan_internet_dc_1.html.

  in some ways afghanistan is a good glimpse at what "theocratic government" under the watchtower would be like.

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  patio34

  Terraly,

  Thanks for that article.

  Tergivesator, I shudder to think of 'theocracy' in the hands of JWs. Kid rebellious? Stone em. Wear clothes of 2 different fabrics? Stone em. Ask questions too much? Stone em. Have a beard? Well . . . and so it goes.

  Pat
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  2

  If You Can't ask Questions Can It Be The Truth?

  by D wiltshire in

  1. jw
  2. friends

  if one has the truth he invites questions, because they will only confirm it with answers.. if one has 1/2 truths then only certain type of questions are wanted ones that they can answer.. if questions that are hard or that really challenge the holder of 1/2 truths are supressed and the questioner motives are attacked, should it not make any clear thinking person suspicious?.

  if you are one of jw's can you asked hard questions and not be afraid of being veiwed with suspicion and contempt?.

  any jws please respond.

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  patio34

  Hi DWiltshire,

  2 replies to your questions:

  1. There was just a thread a couple of days ago (disfellowshipping or disassociating?) that Simon (the proprietor of this board) related his story. He was forcibly disassociated for asking questions.

  2. JanG has an applicable quotation:

  "I'd rather have questions I can't answer than have questions I can't ask (or answers I can't question)."

  Oh! And welcome to this board!.

  Pat
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  52

  god is dead

  by teejay in

  1. jw
  2. friends

  my inactive sister who is very much a jw at heart recently discovered (i told her) that i was a budding agnostic.

  she was quite intrigued and wondered why.

  coming to an agnostic viewpoint has been a long journey.

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  patio34

  Hi Teejay,

  That was a very good post. It's as the WT used to point out, consider the evidence. What evidence IS there of a god? As you eloquently stated, none.

  Actually, everyone is born an atheist (a person without a belief in a god). It's only when taught about it, then a person is a theist. Some do not accept the 'teaching,' preferring to reach their own conclusions instead.

  I am in the same general category as you, preferring not to label myself. But reached it from a different perspective.

  In considering the violence in nature, the contradiction with the bible that the dinasours present, it seems to me that it is far more reasonable to believe there is no god. The dinasours predated humans and were 'meat eaters.' Meaning Gen 1:30 is mistaken in saying all creatures were to eat vegetation. Also, human's sin had nothing to do with introducing violence in nature.

  Evolution is a much better explanation for what is seen in nature. The violence has ALWAYS been there.

  Then there were many, many other reasons once the blinders were off and other reasonings could be explored.

  Thanks for your story and letting me share mine.

  Pat
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  23

  Mainstreaming and the Greatest Mystery

  by metatron in

  1. jw
  2. friends

  what is the future of the watchtower society?.

  this subject is the greatest mystery of my life.

  been in the borg since infancy - my parents and.

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  patio34

  P. S. And that's why such reading doesn't knock them outta dubdom. I get it!
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  23

  Mainstreaming and the Greatest Mystery

  by metatron in

  1. jw
  2. friends

  what is the future of the watchtower society?.

  this subject is the greatest mystery of my life.

  been in the borg since infancy - my parents and.

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  patio34

  Maximus,

  LOL. I gave them way too much credit! After all, it's not as if they broach any disagreement with their stuff. Nor do that many people outside of dubs read them. So, everything can slip on by.

  Thanks!

  Pat
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  23

  Mainstreaming and the Greatest Mystery

  by metatron in

  1. jw
  2. friends

  what is the future of the watchtower society?.

  this subject is the greatest mystery of my life.

  been in the borg since infancy - my parents and.

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  patio34

  Metraton, Copernicus, and Waiting,

  This is re the 'dumbing down' of the WTBS and writing in general today compared to the past.

  I do agree with your statements, but feel there is another aspect to this subject.

  There is far more information available now than ever. E.g., I'm reading 'Time Before History' by Colin Tudge (VERY good). It's probably not written at too high of a reading level, but it does convey a lot of information. It's about evolution, the age of the earth, periods of dinosaurs, atmosphere,--well it could be at a higher reading level!

  BUT, it is a very understandable book and the terms are explained. Had he used multi-syllabic unfamiliar words, fewer people would be able to obtain the info.

  The KNOWLEDGE the book imparts enhances one's education, even if it's at a lower grade level. It's the content, not the choice of words. It's not necessary to write at a high grade level to convey much information.

  As far as the WTBS's article, my theory is:

  1. A researcher reads a current book (as I'm doing) on history, science, whatever.

  2. S(he) (in the WT case, most probably HE) presents interesting tidbits from book and a synopsis of it

  3. The writing staff does articles, putting a biblical spin on it, ending with a ubiquitous 'God-will-solve-this-soon.'

  Most of the Awake articles seemed to be of that type, usually citing the book used as the springboard.

  But how do their people stay JWs reading these books? For me, the books always undermine fundy beliefs.

  My new way is to simply read the books myself, enjoy life, and skip all the harmful propaganda spun by the WTBS.

  For what it's worth,

  Pat
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  32

  Which meeting was the hardest to attend for you ?

  by NoLongerAjw in

  1. jw
  2. friends

  for me i think it was the sunday meeting.. just wanting to stay home and sleep in.. but i think the watchtower study was the hardest to sit threw... you had to have it studied before hand.. and highlighted.. then sit there and listen to it all over again..

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  patio34

  The absolute worst, torture-like, one was the Thursday nite meeting. The school had really boring talks. The 'kingdom ministry' was worse than boring. The Q&A times were like: 'what was the publisher peak in Borneo?', wait for a mike to be taken for someone to read the stupid answer!

  Ugh!

  The rest were pretty bad too, but at least they didn't keep you out late--on a work or school night.

  What a waste of time . . .

  Pat