Posts by Kingpawn

20

What to do to live and work in the US?

by fulano in

jw
friends

.

i lived in ny for almost a year (yes at the headquarters.

edited by - fulano on 30 october 2002 5:4:28edited by - fulano on 30 october 2002 5:6:52.

Kingpawn

Prisca,

Surely the US government has websites about this sort of thing?

Seems to me that the logical place to start would be the State Department. Possibly contact them if fulano's still in the US, or the US Embassy in his home country.

28

Honesty...the Best Policy?

by onacruse in

jw
friends

"no such thing as a man willing to be honest---that would be like a blind man willing to see.".

f. scott fitzgerald.

i very strongly tend to be totally open and honest about how i feel and what i think.

Kingpawn

SaintSatan,

Some of these people use lies or misdirection as a policy to protect themselves or others. Maybe that's a trait of the irish. Anyway, i don't know if one should condemn those lies.

In the context of the example you were giving, that of people helping other people, there might be a need to lie.

Now, as regards the Society in, say, dealing with the press over molestation issues, such lying has been properly condemned here before.

A long time back, someone pointed out the counsel of Christ at Matt. 10:16 : "Look! I am sending you forth as sheep amidst wolves; therefore prove yourselves cautious as serpents and yet innocent as doves." And examples were cited where Christ appears to okay lies, deception, misdirection, and so on.

This brings up an interesting point: if someone puts you in a position where you feel you have to lie (for your own safety, as in concealing something about you that you reasonably feel they'd react with extreme violence to, as one example), who is at greater fault--the liar or the person who makes you afraid to be truthful?

Granted the obvious answer is "Well, I'll tell the truth and God/Allah/The One/Etc. will protect me for doing right" (for those who believe in a Supreme Deity). For those who feel there are serious reasons not to believe, then hasn't the person forcing you to lie (if pressed) committed the graver offense? OTOH, if you claim belief and yet lie, isn't this lie a loss of faith on your part?

34

So fed up!!!!! New here!

by Shytears in

.

hmm,i dont how too start off,but ill try,so im 16 yrs old,im being raised as a jw,and it is hard as hell,sometimes i think,if this is the right religion arent you suppose to be happy??

?well i really cant do anything about that because my parents say no way they will let me go in "the world" nonsense!so im stuck here ,lonely,depressed,and confused,sometimes i wish id die,but i know that wont help nothing.i want out of this org so bad,but i cant do nothing about it.there always telling me dont let satan and the bad asscioates influence you!im sick of that.all my friends well i shold say my ex friends they never helped me,my as they say:worldy friends did.. also i really really like this guy,i know he like me but he is worldy and i wish so badly i could date him,(i hate the term worldy,so stupid)my parents seriously will not give me space and they are stuck up my @ss.please if u have any commets i would sincerly appriciate it:) laura

Kingpawn

Shytears,

Welcome. You'll get the support you need here--information, people who've "been there, done that" and while you may not realize it, you're helping yourself already.

One, you're here. Two, you're thinking. Asking questions. In fact, asking if this is the right religion shouldn't you be happy is getting right to the heart of the issue. After all, Christ said his yoke was light and He was meek. And what was He freeing people from? The Mosaic Law. The same load the WBTS puts on people now.

The Law mandated do's and don'ts, deeds over thoughts/attitudes, and made people constantly worried they wouldn't measure up. The WBTS does the same thing. Christ ended that. He didn't mandate X hours a week in field service, or Y number of Bible studies, or Z meetings.

Read the posts here, even the fluff ones. You'll see we're people who can console, argue, praise, and damn. We're not demon-possessed and you can feed off of our "the WBTS can take a flying @#$% as far as my life is concerned" attitude. There are ex-elders, CO's, and DO's here, who can give you the ammo you need to strengthen you for the time ahead. And there *will* be an end to it. As Joannadandy says, you're so close.

Do searches on things like the UN, the blood issue, false prophecies, disfellowshipping, shunning, the ceramic engine being developed by a company (and the engine's being eyed by the US military) the WBTS has an indirect interest in (as in holding stock in the company that holds stock in the one developing the engine). Or child molesting by them and their response to it, if you're unfamiliar with these things. In the upper left-hand corner, there's a string of links highlighted in yellow under the site logo. "Search" is in there. You'll get an eyefull on those topics and others. And there are several links to other sites at the bottom of the page too.

You're in good company. We'll all do what we can to help you. Ask more questions, seek out resources, trust your instincts. Today is the beginning of your journey out. No, change that. Today you found new friends and info sources to help you out. You've been doing the work already.

32

So depressed...(world conditions)

by DanTheMan in

today was one of the hardest days i've had yet since leaving jw.

i was barely able to work, and i have a knot in my stomach.. i look at the world situation and i feel so hopeless and helpless.

knowing there are millions of people outside of the u.s. that, if you were to put a button in front of them that had a label below it that said "kill every man woman and child in the u.s.a." that they wouldn't even hesitate to press it.. i wonder where it will end.

Kingpawn

Dan,

Anybody else have a day of the week that you always seem to be depressed on?

I work third and when I go back each Monday morning all of us on the line are quieter. After one night we start to perk up.

Now, every night I'm in a more withdrawn mood from the start of work until first break. It probably has a lot to do with the fact I slept for several hours, ate, drove to work, suited up (and work in a room that's mostly gray machines and white walls--color has a lot to do with moods), and my blood sugar is dropping slightly. After first break I perk up.

Something you mentioned strikes a chord with me too. The first part of the night I'm doing a job that's monotonous and doesn't require I pay a lot of attention. The mind isn't occupied and we have more time to think. And that monotony works for putting one in an altered consciousness state. (Drumming is a good technique for some.) Then a break, a snack, we rotate (each of us takes another job) and now I'm doing something with more variety and with higher glucose levels in me. So far I haven't found any way to avoid this doldrums at the beginning of the shift, but I know it'll pass.

Keep that same perspective. It will pass. Actually if people didn't get "down" once in a while with what's going on in the world, that would be reason to wonder about someone's mental health, imo.

13

What's Wrong With Killing Arabs?!

by TTBoy in

before you go tearing my head off - this thread is for pc gamers.. i just picked up soldier of fortune ii - double helix.

i am sick and tired of games that let us kill germans, south americans, and japanese.

why can't anyone make a damn game where you kill the modern day terrorists?

Kingpawn

Anybody remember that song from way back about something the Arab? It was one of those silly songs like the "Please mr.Custer" song

"Ahab the Arab" by Ray Stevens.

2

Fear of DF/DA

by Pleasuredome in

which is the best, da or df?

it can be seen with the situation ray described in ireland as to what happened to ray and others and that da persons should be treated the same as df persons.

so to be da, or to be df?

Kingpawn

when we let go of the fear of the way other people think of us, then we start to live our truth, our uniqueness, instead of someone else's version of what we should be.

You hit the nail right on the head.

If every Witness could all at once let go of the two biggest fears--dying at Armageddon from no longer being in "the truth" and being shunned no matter how they left--The Society would collapse inside a decade.

On the DA vs. DF question, I'd see being DF'ed as the preferable way to go--even provoke it if need be. It's like quitting cigarettes cold turkey. But I realize some people, for one reason or another, can't go that route.

Now, fading away--sorry, but to me that doesn't get it. It's like my Congressional rep (Republican conservative) getting pressure on him to more aggressively promote "right to work" legislation. Seems like he wants to call himself a conservative but not walk the walk--on this issue anyway. Someone going the "FA" route with the JW's strikes me the same way--quit @#$%ing around about it and DO IT! The fact I was the only JW in my family makes it easier for me to take that attitude, but if you see a choice has to be made between your principles (such as self-respect) and your preferences about how your life will go, then pick principles. Why stay in a religion where you feel fear of discovery, fear you aren't good enough or doing enough, fear of other's opinions, etc? You are the only person you have to live with from that day on.

In the intelligence game, there's the "defector"--in JWland, the apostate who actually actively questioned the Society's teachings and/or has left--and the "defector in place"--they've nursed secret grudges and doubts but haven't broken with the Society. I have more trouble with the "dip" who figures, "This is just new light" or "It seems like a contradiction, but it'll be explained eventually." If the world's despots'd had a few million less of these "yes men" the world's history would be different.

13

Hug me and go to hell..........

by Dawn in

jw
friends

weird subject title, i know - but let me explain................. i am df'd (12+ yrs now) so when my father (an elder) passed away last year i was shunned by everyone but one sister who came up and hugged me.

since the funeral, whenever i run into her she always gives me a hug - nice i thought.. then last week i run into her at the supermarket - she gives me a hug and then makes a joke saying "guess i'm going to hell now".........so i replied...."really?

that's too bad because i won't be there".

Kingpawn

Maybe the door has just opened a little crack for you to peek in?

Think about it. She PUBLICLY hugs you a few times, jokes about "going to hell" and talks to you, knowing you've been df'ed. Sounds like an independent-thinking person who's more than just a closet rebel against WT doctrines. She may well be reachable.

16

1 in 10 Survey - Fluff Thread

by jgnat in

jw
friends

there is danger in people placing all their faith in the written word, if they do not allow it to be tempered by experience.

for instance, i read today that 1 in 10 americans:.

1. suffer from attention sufficiency disorder.

Kingpawn

Only no. 6 applies--carried a knife in school.

If TTP=Transylvania Telephone and Power, I doubt I'll get a phone from them, being in the US. (Hey, you never know, it could be them, I mean when AT&T was forced to split up lots of new carriers entered the field, so otoh....)

64

Please convince me I'm wrong!

by StinkyPantz in

since i have stopped attending the meetings, i have had a loss of faith in god.

i consider myself an agnostic teetering on being a full blown atheist.

while in school this last semester i have been taking courses that emphasize evolution.

Kingpawn

SP,

The universe being billions of years old--no problem for me to believe that. Fundamentalists make themselves look silly, imo, by insisting on 144 hours from start to end. (Six days--Day 7 He kicked back.)

The existence of God--basically you have to infer it by circumstantial evidence. FI, food. A variety of sizes, shapes, colors, tastes, and nutritional values. Would this variety be developed if there was no need for it? I doubt it.

Or the balance of Nature--all animals and plants fulfilling some function while alive and being checked against overpopulation by death, which in many cases serves a need of the predator. The complex interactions of all members of Nature speaks of a God to me. Evolution, before it "fine-tuned" the mix, would have been out of balance originally--maybe seriously so.

The fact we can appreciate beauty, whether of a sunrise/set, a musical interlude, that rush we feel when a loved one reappears after being gone for a while--all useless from a strictly evolutionary "survival's-the-name-of-the-game" viewpoint.

I get the feeling something else's wrong, and this topic's a symptom, not the cause, of it. I'm a bit beat because I think I missed an appointment I'd really been looking forward to going to (will know in a few hours), and I could, in the right mood, get actually testy with someone over something else entirely.

I agree that the person who has doubts is the one searching. They may not totally feel they'll find the treasure they seek, but they are willing to grant the possibility and are making the effort. The one who believes totally, as you said, has no reason to search, just like the one who doubts totally.

I don't believe in Hell because the Bible says it doesn't exist and I see it as inconsistent with God. Hell is a scare tactic religion uses like parents use "wait `till your father gets home" with kids. God says, "Here's my offer. I really hope you take it and I'll be sorry if you don't, but you're as free to do that as Adam was to eat the forbidden fruit." Sorry, yes--P.O.'ed, no. Why allow us to die and then bring us back to suffer? Isn't that vindictiveness? Isn't He above that?

So as far as Him not answering prayers--that I can't comment on. OTOH, have new doors opened up for you that had been closed before? It sounds like your life should be pretty upbeat otherwise--classes, moving, children. Was this unlikely or impossible before, and then suddenly, voila?

I could say now's not the right time for the answer, or there are other lessons to be learned and experiences to go through before then, but I'm speculating. And my daughter needs to use the PC, so sorry this isn't more help. If you want to talk more my mail's open.

Take care,

Mark

12

Divorce?

by outtahere in

i have a complex situation that i would like some help with..... married, two kids.

my husband and i have had our problems.

married young and all.

Kingpawn

Married, two kids. My husband and I have had our problems. Married young and all. We separated at one point. We got back together and started over. The kids were devestated when we split up; ecstatic when we got back together. I love my husband very much, but he has recently betrayed my trust. On top of that he has said some very hurtful things and has distanced himself from me and the children. I know he is not happy. There have been alot of changes in his life recently and he tells me he is confused.

Actually there's not enough info here for real counsel (advice I won't give, because as I've said elsewhere, it's too easy for people who don't have to suffer the consequences of bad advice to hand it out). It's something I do too--know a situation so intimately that I forget others don't when I write about it. I'd be interested in knowing:

At what age, for how long, and why did you first separate?
Why is he not happy?
What changes have gone on in his life?
Has he said what he's confused about?
Ages of you and him.

I sense he might be in his forties. If so it could be a midlife crisis. We guys reach a point where we look back on "the road(s) not taken"--the chances we didn't take, the unchosen career paths, the people we could have married--what might have been. Logically it's a waste of time and energy, but that doesn't mean we won't do it. And guys can react in nonsensical ways--buying a sports car, chasing younger women, doing something dangerous. I've seen it in women too--maybe she flirts a lot or wears skimpy outfits because she isn't handling being 40+ well.

Changes may not be so much him as his job. Even a promotion can be a source of stress ("Can I really do what the company expects of me?"). His workplace may be going through changes--being bought out--underlings may be seen as "sharks in the water" or he may feel threatened by advancing technology and the pace of change.

I'm more than willing to act as a sounding board for things--and being 45, married, and going through a disintegrating marriage myself can easily identify with what he may be feeling--but advice, telling you what you should do? Uh uh. I keep in mind the people who asked what business the late Ann Landers had giving marital advice when she got divorced, and I think they were right to ask.