Kingpawn

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Posts by Kingpawn

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  5

  practices

  by 4me in

  1. watchtower
  2. beliefs

  i have a younger sister i've recently gotten to know as an adult (she's 10 years my junior).

  i know that she was raised as a witness however i'm not real clear on the practices/beliefs.

  i do know that she is currently living through a lot of turmoil.

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  Kingpawn

  4me,

  First, welcome.

  I do know that she says she was ousted because she has children out of wedlock,

  The sex itself isn't really the issue, as other posters have noted in the past. It's the most visible reason when pregnancy and childbirth occur. the real reason is attitude. The JW's would call it "repentance;" others would define it as "groveling" enough to earn reinstatement.

  As for what to say to her...OK, she's trusted some people too much, or made some bad decisions that got her into this spot--I don't know the circumstances. But their shunning her has the same negative effect that screaming at a child for fifteen minutes over a glass of spilled milk does...shame, hurt, a loss of self-confidence, etc. But the deed is done and now's too late to be yelling about it by others. And most of those wanting to do the yelling are doing it to put on "holier-than-thou" airs anyway.

  So, she has children outside wedlock. I'd tell her to love them and raise them to be good people. Curious about the world, wanting to learn, willing to help others, being honest, hard-working, diligent. Tolerant, knowing they will never learn it all. For her, don't wallow in shame or let people make her feel like scum. We all make mistakes. This isn't the end of the world for her. With support from others (not from her family unless she has a very rare breed for JW relatives) she can finish school (if needed), hold down a job, raise her family. It'll be tough but it's do-able.

  She's feeling alone, rejected, probably scared, bitter, and will need a lot of emotional support. You can be a big help to her in several areas. You might even tell her about this board. Here she'll find any number of people who can commiserate with her, uplift her, and give her the courage she'll need to face the worst they can throw at her. I'm not suggesting trying to convert her from the JW's to something else...the focus now should be on giving her any emotional help she needs.

  Actually I'm assuming she was ousted recently. If it's been a few years then she's probably dealt with many of these obstacles already. But some of the baggage may still be being carried around.

  And if you want reasons to get her out of the "faith" this site, and the links at the bottom, are chock-full of reasons why.

  Hope this helps.
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  78

  Calvinism

  by Calvinist02 in

  1. watchtower
  2. beliefs

  the basic 5 points of calvinism.

  1. total depravity- all men are sinners.

  we are totally corrupt and wicked.

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  Kingpawn

  He predestined His elect to salvation before the foundation of the world.

  This is a doctrine that makes trying to live a life pleasing to God as absolutely useless if you were not "predestined" to grace! You might just as well "eat, drink, and be merry, for tomorrow we die," because no matter you try and live a godly life your time and effort is a waste.

  5. Perseverence of the Saints- True Believers cannot lose their salvation. If God did choose you, then He cannot "un-choose" you. If you did "fall away from the faith" then you were never really in it.

  Flatly contradicts Christ's words in Matt. 12:31, 32, regarding the unforgivable sin. By saying God can't "un-choose" someone, you deny the very soverignty mentioned earlier, when you said God can do what He wants. Which is it? Sounds to me like you're teaching "doctrines of men." (Matt. 15:1-9).

  This "If you did "fall away from the faith" then you were never really in it" is a convenient "out" to explain why someone so zealous years before has cooled since. Maybe they were stumbled by the actions of higher-ups whom God didn't reprove promptly (and therefore, allowed on of His sheep to be stumbled). That's what a loving God does?

  Hobbes is right. We act out of self-interest. The late Lenny Bruce once said we're all as honest as we can afford to be.

  Edited by me to add the last three lines.

  Edited by - Kingpawn on 7 December 2002 6:39:12
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  24

  Elders Spying on JWs

  by Yizuman in

  1. jw
  2. experiences

  i hear crazy stories about elders spying on the congregational members.

  i even hear of stake outs on member's homes.. anybody have any stories about elders doing crazy stuff that you have seen them do or even heard about from others?

  meaning elders trying to catch members being in the wrong?.

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  Kingpawn

  I never knew if there was any kind of "points" system for their kind of work. But what do the Elders earn from all the work? I mean, they gotta be motivated by something to do all this work.

  1. Brownie points with higher-ups leading to promotions or Bethel.
  2. They're Peeping Toms.
  3. " arrogant bastards who think they're obeying God's laws so human laws (#2) don't apply to them.
  4. Insecurity so if they can root out sinners they feel more justified in their own failings.
  5. Inspires fear when innuendo's enough to get someone canned.
  6. Turns everyone (or many) into the elder's snitches so the dirty work's done for them.
  7. Control freaks.

  I second Trauma-Hound's wish. Imagine it hitting the paper that Elder So-and-So was busted for peeping in windows! Or his butt is kicked and the homeowner's told about it while the peeper's still down for the count and he holds him for the police.
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  37

  people df'd for having sex

  by placebo_apothecary in

  1. social
  2. relationships

  .

  was it worth it?.

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  Kingpawn

  Placebo,

  i feel like im just waisting my time when i could really be doing something valuable but how do i know what im doing today will be valuable tomorrow.

  If you're asking this in the sense of, will it be of valuable to the world in general, then it's not easy to answer.

  If you're asking in the sense of, is it valuable to you, the answer is: if it brings you pleasure, or relief, or joy, or knowledge...something beneficial...then yes, it's valuable.

  But i've always believed that if i had the balls to do what i did then i should have the balls to deal with any of the consequences.

  That's the mature reaction and a commendable one. Sometimes though we overestimate how well we'll handle things when the bad aftereffects do come about. Or the situation comes with angles and consequences we didn't expect. Maybe someone/thing we counted on for support backs out/isn't as secure as we thought...like a job offer that is rescinded, when we counted on it to support our decision to change jobs on moral grounds, for example.

  So in this regard I think you can cut yourself some slack.

  I guess none of what I'm really saying makes as much sense as it does when you know the whole story.

  It's something we all do too easily. We forget that just because we lived it, not everyone else knows it that well. Important stuff can get left out.
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  2

  Need Help

  by Rosco in

  1. jw
  2. experiences

  interesting a jw friend of mine mentioned he was viewing a website and told me to check it out, religioustolerance .org.. is this a jw propaganda web site?

  i did a search here and found little on it.

  i thought i read something here about it being there site.

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  Kingpawn

  As far as I know, and admittedly I've spent little time on it, the site exists in an effort to promote tolerance.

  I used it as a springboard to study a Pagan religion and what I learned there didn't differ from what I've learned since. One example doesn't prove they always try to be accurate but I pass it along FWIW.
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  20

  What else do people fall for?

  by sleepy in

  1. jw
  2. friends

  what other scams ,schemes and crazy stuff do people fall for apart from becoming jehovahs witnesses?do you know of things to watch out for that some others may not be well informed enought about to know the problems involved?

  homoeopathy is one.companies making millions out of the suffering of desperate people and selling them suger and water.

  the only effect homoeopathy can have is a placebo one that may cause you to be more relaxed and less stressed due to the belief you are being cured, which will aid recovery,but that would just happen if you were lied to by your doctor.

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  Kingpawn

  Swan,

  My cousin got involved in one of the most lucrative schemes. My family claimed it was legal, which may be true, but was it ethical? You decide. I made my mind up long ago that I wanted no part of it. He made a deal with a local charity that he would donated x hundred dollars a year for use of their name. Then he opened a second hand store under their name. Caring people would donate all the merchandise, he sold it, paid the operating expenses, and gave the charity their x hundred dollars per year.

  Ethically I'd have a problem with it if he didn't tell people about the fact he wasn't affiliated with this non-profit group. But he could say that if he did so people wouldn't donate, he couldn't sell, and the charity couldn't get their money from him. I'd question the ethics of a charity using this tactic too.

  Legally if both parties to the contract had the ability under the law to make such a deal then I see no problem in that area. In fact, the same or similar tactics are used by charities today. They get $XXXX from a fundraiser, who's then free to solicit funds using that charity's name. And if the fundraising group takes in more dollars than they gave the charity that surplus is theirs to keep. They are under no obligation to give it to the charity.

  If you're uncomfortable with it (as I would be) then no one can criticize you for not getting involved. Too many people leave their morals at the door when money is discussed.
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  12

  Where are the Prophets and the Dreamers?

  by Elsewhere in

  1. jw
  2. friends

  according to the jw's we are in the last days, right?

  so where are the prophets and dreamers?

  acts 2:17. .

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  Kingpawn
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  1

  Is Bush REALLY trying to save money?

  by back2dafront in

  1. watchtower
  2. scandals

  http://story.news.yahoo.com/news?tmpl=story&u=/nm/20021127/pl_nm/environment_forest_dc_7

  bush administration to ease forest management rules .

  wed nov 27, 4:17 pm et

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  Kingpawn

  Just trying to understand the Republican way of reasoning.

  Good luck.

  It's conservatives more than just the Republicans (we tend to fall into the trap of thinking the GOP is all conservative and the Democratic Party being all liberal).

  The GOP tends to feel that the most important thing in America is business. They hide behind their rhetoric of "limited government" (while voting for Big Government laws like the Communications Decency Act of 1996 and similar laws later). To them there are too many rules, taxes, and diversity/multiculturalism is a bad thing. And by being blindly dogmatic about it (avoiding the use of common sense) they make their conservative evangelical supporters happy especially. They saw AIDS as a behavioral, not health, problem in the late 1990's--putting a killer disease on the same level as juvenile delinquency, imo.

  I admit I see them as arrogant, pompous (look at Jerry Falwell for example), convinced God's on their side and they needn't listen to others. I don't like conservatives and I see them as enemies of progress on many fronts in America.
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  16

  'Religion' after the Witnesses?

  by happysunshine in

  1. jw
  2. friends

  'religion' after the witnesses?

  is it possible?

  any comments?

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  Kingpawn

  It's possible, but it can be more of a struggle for some than others.

  Problem one is overcoming that "if the JW's weren't the truth, and they've soured me on all other religions, where do I go?" dilemna.

  My first mistake was going to a Baptist church. After being insulted and stumbled, I left.

  Someone posted a link to a site (Selectsomething-or-other) that asked you twenty questions about your feelings on religion, doctrines, and social issues. That led me to research Wicca and the Religious Society of Friends (Quakers).

  I've since continued my studies in Wicca, and am becoming more at ease with concepts I would have rejected immediately years ago like a dual deity, reincarnation, and studying the Tarot equalling spiritism. I basically take the "The One, the God and Goddess" and reincarnation (for now) as interesting, maybe not totally convinced in my own mind, but I'm not required to be convinced in order to belong.

  Wicca to me is an opposite to the Witnesses. There are very few "doctrines," the main one being what could be called a restatement of the Golden Rule: "Ain it harm none (or yourself too), do what thou wilt." It's far from being a "you must believe A, B, C,..." system. There is no "Bible" to argue over. Wicca doesn't claim to be the "only way" to acheiving some spiritual goal like salvation. No priesthood or someone needed to act as an intermediary between you and the Divine. Nor is one required to go to a particular place to worship (a building) and/or only on certain days. It can be practiced alone if desired, or if circumstances keep you away from others. GSX1138 sums it up well in his sig: expose the Bible to the weather, and the words and paper will vanish. To us (I can't say "me" yet), the wind and rain is our Bible. These differences are what I find attractive about it.

  And I have to agree with his comment that spiritualization is more important than submitting to someone else's rules. Their way may not be best for you. If you aren't comfortable you won't be spiritual.

  I doubt I'll ever attend a "church" as part of an organized religion again. But I can still be religious.
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  15

  Jehovahs Witness strips for Calender

  by Jim Dee in

  1. jw
  2. friends

  players included in the calendar are: andy bird, tom blackwood, alex cox, ashley dale, chris davenport, neil dey, james harding, steve hassall, tom hughes, nick jerman, kieran johnson, paddy kennedy, dan massey, jon phipps, chris sproston, mark stuart, adam walker, tom woods.

  above is the sandbach, cheshire ruby club "stripathon" http://www.sandbachrufc.co.uk/.

  the lad in the firemans helmet is named paddy kennedy - he is a jehovahs witness in the wilmslow congregation in cheshire!.

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  Kingpawn

  Xena,

  cause if they say there isn't then well there can't be now can there???

  Since he's the only dub there, there aren't two witnesses to his alleged nudity.