Posts by redvip2000

19

Most JWs Lack Bible Knowledge - How Can They Teach What they know not

by Band on the Run in

jw
friends

being a jw exposed me to many bible stories.

when i am with any group of people today, except seminary students, i know far more stories and obscure ones, too.

after i left, i went on a tour of the cathedral in ny.

redvip2000

I agree that many JWs simply know how to regurgitate what is taught in the halls and not much more.

However, i would like to comment on the post about Noah above. First it is really disturbing that the Watchtower society continues to modify bible verses to scratch itself on the back.

With that said, i must disagree when you say that Matthew 24:39 says that people had no idea that the great floor was coming. In reality by focusing on the words "and they did not understand until the flood came" you are making the same mistake that JWs make, by isolating words in the bible to support a belief.

In order to understand the meaning of what is said here, it's better to simply look at the situation. Jesus was comparing his second coming with the events of the great flood. He indicated they were similar in the sense that people would be caught off guard by his second coming. THIS DOES NOT MEAN that they didn't know that there will be a second coming. Obviously the entire world (hopefully) knows this, yet many will be caught off guard and will only realize what is happening when it's too late.

Same thing in Noah's time. It seems logical to think that those people were also warned, but simply ignored it. The bible in fact does not specifically say that Noah preached about this, but the bible does call him "preacher of rightneouness". Additionally just by applying a little logic to this, it is true that God has always warned people of impending destruction or judgement and most often than not, has always used humans to distribute the warning, so common send tells us that if God is consistent, he would have done the same here.

4

Southwest Ohio Assembly Fund

by 2tone in

jw
friends

there was an article awhile back that talked about the london, ohio and indianapolis, indiana assembly being sold.

there are going to build a new in southwest ohio near cincinatti.. the indianapolis isnt sold.

i just drove by it today and its got a for sale sign on it.

redvip2000

It's incomprehesible to me that the Org would make people contribute this amount of money to build a convention hall. At a time when they are selling their property in Brooklyn for an exorbitant amount of money, why not use a small portion of that to fund this?

32

Can you be a JW in good standing and NOT go door to door?

by Terry in

the 2nd president of the watchtower bible and tract society, j.f.rutherford was criticised by some elders in the (then) independant congregations for urging members to go door to door while neglecting to do so himself.

rutherford responded:.

frequently some elder says: the president of the society does not go from house to house selling books.

redvip2000

the bottom line is that going door to door is by far the most inefective way to preach to people. What a tremendous waste of time. You can spend an entire day preaching door to door and speak to no one. At least if you do informal preaching you are sure to speak to someone.

I know a few JWs who barely go D2d yet they always have a report. IF i was an active witness today i'm pretty sure i could get away with not going door to door at all and still report.

I know of witnesses who "claim" to write letters and place phone calls. Others use the informal witnessing excuse. Others simply go to field service but have already arranged to go with someone they know who hates it as much. So when they go out, they spend the entire time having coffee.

When i was a witness i always felt less than others, because i could never seem to report as much as they did. I thought God surely didn't approve of me. It really is liberating to know that it's not about that and that you can spread the message by talking to others in a natural friendly way when the occasion presents itself, and without having to submit a formal report.

19

Motives for starting the lie of Watchtower Authority.

by marriedtoajw in

i have yet to come across anyones opinions, jw or not, of the personal motives of the leaders of the org.

to perpetuate what i guess we all would call the lie of the watchtoer authority.

in my opinion, i think that russell was an athiest out to show how easy it is to decieve people using the bible.

redvip2000

The natural process of development of an organized religion is not that much different from that of any business.

When a business opens as a small shop, the owner runs the business based on simple concepts, with simple rules, changes procedures and course of actions quickly as needed, without much thought, knowing he is accountable to himself. When the company becomes huge, it changes, it now needs standard operating procedures, strict guidelines, decisions affect millions of dollards, and people. Everybody is accountable to the company and the company becomes bigger than any single individual. The company in essense gains a life of its own, especially once the original owner is gone.

The watchtower was the same. Started with Russel as a modest brotherhood, simple standards. Then Rutherford gave it the push to break out of the mold and shaped it as a corporation ruled from the top down. Knorr expanded and sharpened the edges business-wise. With the change to the arrangement of a Governing Body it all changed. The Org is now bigger than any individual. It has a life of it's own. If one individual at the top wants to change it, the others simply kick him out in favour of the standards already in place. The institution and values that have been in place surpass all other considerations, and the people at the top simply make sure they keep the engine going.

35

The Real Purpose of Shunning Holidays

by metatron in

jw
friends

the watchtower endlessly prates on about pagan traditions in popular holidays - while the bible itself is loaded with subtle pagan religious ideas - such as wicked spirits being cast "into tartarus" (a pagan greek place in which the rebels against zeus got imprisoned) or "sacred secret" - a term the apostle paul likes that was adopted from pagan 'mystery' religions.. then we can throw in the reference to being divinely 'called christians' in acts - which uses a pagan term that refers to demonic oracles of the day.. of course, the watchtower has no objection to accumulating millions of pieces of paper that feature occult symbols (any dollar bill!).

in recent years, for good measure, they have added birthdays and thanksgiving to the official banned list, despite the sketchiest justification for doing so.

if birthdays are wrong simply because they figure in two negative accounts, then it makes much more sense to ban dogs as pets because of all the negativity in the bible about them!.

redvip2000

Interestingly enough, JWs have no problem with celebrating a shower for an unborn baby, which can be said has also pagan connections.

They will get a cake and wrap presents and put decorations up in honor of the unborn baby. The excuse is that it seems to biblical to celebrate the birth of someone, but that the anniversary of that birth is wrong. HUH??? yup you heard it. Quite the logic indeed. It's as logic as saying that is ok to celebrate a wedding, but not ok to celebrate the anniversary of that wedding.

Just another example of the fact that these decisions of whether to celebrate something (or not), have very little to do with logic, pagan connections, or personal conviction, and has all to do with whether it is "approved" or not.

74

Two Elders just left.

by mouthy in

jw
friends

how wonderful it was... i saw two women over the road knocking on doors .

i could see they were jws...i prayed & asked they would call here... but no!!!!

the lord sent two men!!!!elders!!!!

redvip2000

It's truly sad to see how much the Watchtower society restrains the natural decency and mercy that humans are normally compelled to extend to others.

Likely those elders were touched by the raw emotional account from you, but that feeling was superceded by the sense of duty to obbey the organization that is constantly in the back of their minds.

I remember in my hall, when we had DFed people, although nobody would talk to them (publicly) many of the brothers and sisters would " sneak in" a smile, or a wink, or even a silent "hello" to them, naturally motivated by common decency in their hearts, while "mommy org" robbed them of the proper christian right to show mercy and love to the struggling brothers among us, as shown by Jesus.

87

Is this HARD evidence that the INTERNET is hurting the Watch Tower Society?

by cedars in

these are the countries with 80 to 89.99% internet penetration:.

these are the countries with 70 to 79.99% internet penetration:.

these are the countries with 60 to 69.99% internet penetration:.

redvip2000

Thanks for the hard work. There might be a correlation there.

But i think internet access is simply a part of the bigger picture: development!!.

The countries with a higher rate of internet penetration, probably also have a higher percentage of college educated individuals, and more buying power allowing people to access all sorts of information.

I hope not to offend any JWs reading this, but what i have observed lately is the tendency of the younger, prosperous, educated and thinking strata of JWs leaving the organization, while the older, less educated, more willing to be led strata remains behind.

I guess in a way i'm implying that the average JW is getting dumber, but to be honest, it is only logical that this happens.

220

2011 Watchtower publisher statistics with analysis

by jwfacts in

the 2012 yearbook has released the publisher statistics for the 2011 service year.

a scan of the report can be found at http://www.jwfacts.com/images/2011-publisher-report.pdf and i have started updating the graphs at http://www.jwfacts.com/watchtower/statistics.php.

as expected, it is following on from similar trends to the last 15 years.

redvip2000

Wouldn't it be great to know how many of the publishers are kids of adult JW's ? Surely each JW family with one or two kids is taking them along in service starting at an early age ( 6 or 7). Potentially 20 or 30% ( or more) of the publishers are kids who are reporting because they don't have much of a choice.

I would really be interested in knowing how many people actually become JWs, due to preaching efforts. Although i know this is close to impossible to get, it would really shed some light on how much the preaching work is a tremendous waste of time.

I too was suprised by the spike in pioneers, but i see now how it happened. The creative minds at bethel keep finding new ways to cast an image of prosperity for all to see. And to think they could have a real job in a marketing firm somewhere..

21

It`s just a matter of time B4 some" crazy"JW reads between the lines & takes matters in his/hers own hands

by smiddy in

with the latest wt`s hate sessions against so-called apostates,former members who have had serious doubts about the religions claims to being the "chosen" of almighty god to dispense food at the proper time to the faithfull,eg:" mentally diseased"contagiously diseased,dont go near them etc.and of course exposing their dismall record of ever getting anything right as far as expectations ,prophecy,correct understanding of scripture and it`s interpretation,the flip flop backtreading on certain scriptures,and god knows what else,its only a matter of time b4 some delusional" witness"gets it in their head to take matters in their own hands and do jehovahs work,get rid of, kill some apostates,even if it`s family members.. the wtb&ts seem to be putting more and more pressure on the faithfull to hate all opposers.

i dont think this is beyond the possabillity of reality given that a dis proportionate number of jw`s suffer some form of mental deficiency,whether this is why they become jw`s or whether this is something that develops after being in the religion for some extended time.

smiddy.

redvip2000

I personally second what Hortensia has said.

I think what will likely happen is that a Ex-JW or disfellowshipped JW will go nuts and walk in a KH guns blazing.

Considering the amount of people that get DF-ed and the hurt and displacement it causes i'm truly surprised that has not happened yet.

21

Jehovah's Witness bogus NEUTRALITY claims during war examined

by Terry in

this detailed article presents a large number of give and take propositions, suppositions and conjectures.. it challenges ray franz chapter in crises of conscience on jw policy for mexico/malawi, et al.. http://settingtherecordstraight.wordpress.com/category/ray-franzs-conscience-not-really-in-crisis/.

the important fact missing from the consideration and analysis is that the watchtower society privately advised draft age brothers who were facing draft problems.

i was personally taken aside, for example, by the congregation overseer and his assistant to the kingdom hall library.

redvip2000

I too, read the piece contained in the link. The explanation provided by the Watchtower apologist who wrote it, is out of touch with the issue brought up by Ray Franz.

The apologist goes on and on about the details of how military registration works in Mexico and the different ways someone could become exempt including health, distance from recruiting centers, etc etc.

Clearly this has nothing to do with the issue raised by Franz. What Ray explained is that young JWs in Mexico, upon reaching the registration age, would pay bribes to officials in order to make sure they would be exempt, and thus avoiding the natural selection process that usually takes place.

Becoming exempt from military service legally is one thing. Bribing someone in order to become exempt is another and the latter is what was happening in Mexico at that time. I have personally seen correspondence from Bethel to the Mexico branch, where the Bethel service dept. aknowledged this practice by local brothers and said that the brothers could continue doing what they needed to do, and that Bethel would take no responsability in that matter.