Posts by Phizzy

18

IS the bOrg running out of blokes to serve(tm)?

by punkofnice in

from the silly website today..... thursday, august 15god .

energizes you, giving you both the desire and the power to act.—phil.

2:13.courageous men who are willing to take on more responsibility are a blessing to a congregation.

Phizzy

This was happening well over a Decade ago. I remember when a C.O wanted to split our Congregation in to two.

This was 12 or 14 years ago. The Elders had resisted for a while, we were the largest Congo. in the Circuit, but they just knew that that the calibre of guy needed to be an Elder or M.S was not there.

The C.O persuaded them to appoint three or Four Elders, maybe five, and about 10 or so M.S, all of whom were a real surprise to the Congo, except perhaps for one, a really nice young guy, appointed Elder, and now is a C.O. and moved on of course.

As the old guys die off, both Congos. now struggle with people at the helm who are ill qualified, and do more harm than good.

The Org is moribund.

17

No 2019 Conventions in Ireland ?

by Phizzy in

i may have got this wrong, but using the dreaded jw website, they seem to be directing the irish j.w's to go to birmingham in england this weekend.. is this correct ?

they always used to hold two conventions in ireland, are there none in 2019 ??.

probably the irish ones actually, truly, made a loss, but think of all the travelling, including a flight or sea ferry crossing if i am correct.

Phizzy

I may have got this wrong, but using the dreaded JW website, they seem to be directing the Irish J.W's to go to Birmingham in England this Weekend.

Is this correct ? they always used to hold two Conventions in Ireland, are there none in 2019 ??

Probably the Irish ones actually, truly, made a loss, but think of all the travelling, including a Flight or Sea ferry Crossing if I am correct. Poor Irish J.W's, having that trek to be bored for days !

11

Why do JWs reject the 587/586 BCE date?

by Doug Mason in

i do not want this to develop into another discussion on "607 bce date is wrong".. when the a-e section of "aid to bible understanding" was published, i was able to show that the article on "chronology" employed deceptive techniques when it cited its sources.

whenever i provided jws the evidence in print, it was like water off a duck's back.

"the brothers in brooklyn have done all the research, write to them", they would tell me.. i soon recognised that the jws followed the wts because of who it claimed to be.. it became clear that another, stronger force existed--the impact of shunning with the loss of close friendships and with the impact on their family relationships.. one could only stand by with concern thinking of the impact of the cognitive dissonance and observing the regular changes requiring lock-step obedience.

Phizzy

I agree with the Posts above. But, I would say if the discussion comes up with a JW, do not hold back through lack of hope that it will have an effect.

As a born-in a little drip drip of checkable facts is what eventually woke me up, as is usual with a JW such as I was, these niggling things were shoved to the back of my mind, thinking they would be explained by the Org sometime, until the Cognitive Dissonance built up to such a scream within me, that I could ignore it no more.

All you guys keep up your efforts, you never know, a seed or two planted may grow in the end.

25

What Biblical message should be proclaimed now according to Jesus himself ?

by Alex Williams in

this is what jesus said.

matt 24-14.

14 and this gospel of the kingdom will be preached in the whole world as a testimony to all nations, and then the end will come.. looking at this verse what is the central theme?

Phizzy

I too think AW is a Troll, and not interested in genuine debate, but I will give the guy a chance.

Alex, what makes you think anything in the Bible applies to our time ?

6

from S.N.A.P

by zeb in

jw
friends

zeb -- (from a snap em) quote.

on wednesday, august 14th, new york will open a one-year, one-time-only period where victims can file lawsuits against their abusers and the institutions that harbored them, regardless of how long ago the abuse took place, and even if the statute of limitations is long expired.

this window of opportunity is short, and may never come again.. if you were abused in new york, this one-year window of opportunity is a potential chance at justice.. make no mistake, the litigation process can be long and difficult.

Phizzy

Bump

14

Another Million dollar verdict against Jehovah's Witnesses

by Tenacious in

full story here.

Phizzy

Clicked on Link and got this : "This content is not available in your area".

I am in the U.K, could you post the full story, or a Link that works for us here ?

Many Thanks.

45

C.T. Russell / Free and Accepted Order of Masons of the Lord Jesus Christ's Commandery

by mizpah2 in

le lundi 16 juin 1913, le pasteur charles t. russell prononça un discours privé - réservé aux "intéressés" - au golden gate commandery hall de san francisco (1) (2).dans un premier temps, lors de cette conférence intitulée "le temple de dieu", le 2ème président de la société watch tower s’identifia directement à 6 reprises comme "maçons", "franc [mot en italique] maçon", "maçon libre et accepté", membre du "grand ordre de maçonnerie libre et acceptée", adepte d'une "maçonnerie moderne" et membre de "l'ordre de la maçonnerie libre et accepté".

", 14 juin 1913, p.12 / "the san francisco call.

", 15 juin 1913 / "the san francisco call.

Phizzy

So far as I remember the real evidence is totally lacking that Russel was a member of the Freemason fraternity. Apart from very thin circumstantial stuff like the above. It is certain that one of his close relatives ( an Uncle ? ) was.

I think he was aware of the power and influence that Masons had in his day, and wanted to attract them to his movement, hence the advert for IBSA at the end of the masonic stuff, and hence his use of Masonic expressions, though of course we all use these too, " On the level" etc etc

Would it matter today to the JW Org if he had been a Mason ? I doubt it, they have distanced themselves since Rutherford's time from Russell, his teachings, and the Bible Student movement.

Was Rutherford a Mason ? That might be more of a problem for the Org.

35

The Lords prayer ;Our Father prayer...."Let your name be sanctified " from Jesus.

by smiddy3 in

jw
friends

according to mathew 6:9 jesus instructed his followers in, vs. 9 " you must pray, then this way "our father in the heavens,let your name be sanctified ..... which rank & file jehovah`s witnesses have been led to believe for the past 140 or so years is to make a personal name of god namely jehovah known to all of the world ,because as they have so loudly professed christendom has kept that name away from the general public.. not true ,raymundus martinus a spanish catholic monk of the 13th-14th century first coined that name for god and it has been used in and on churches throughout christendom in the world ever since.. true christendoms emphasis has been on witnessing about jesus christ which is what the new testament is all about,not jehovah god, but jesus christ .

phillipians 2 :9-11. in the new testament ,( cgs ) jesus christ is never recorded as saying the personal name of god ever.. " " none of the apostles are ever recorded as saying the personal name of god ever.. " " none of his disciples are ever recorded as saying the personal name of god ever.. the new testament ,christian greek scriptures are all about bearing witness about jesus christ and after his time of bringing back people under his kingdom will he turn then it back over to his father, a thousand years when his rule is finished.. that is the message of the"kingdom interlinear of the christian greek scriptures" published by the wtb&ts ,says..

Phizzy

The big problem with "restoring" YHWH to the N.T texts is that those doing the "restoration" are affected by their particular Theology and Christology.

It is clear that the JW Org is against the concepts contained in the Trinity Doctrine, and so will render verses according to their beliefs, as will people in the pro Trinity camp.

We are deep in the realm of Eisegesis, not pure Translation. Of course, if one is reading an honest Translation, the reader must use Exegesis, as YHWH will not appear.

I do feel that the JW org, though restraining themselves somewhat when inserting " Jehovah" into the Text, have in fact been overly enthusiastic to do so in certain places, but again, that is only my opinion based on my understanding of the Text.

I think that all Scholarly efforts to render in a modern language what the writer intended to say are to be respected,but we have to recognize that the results are only the opinion of the Scholar.

At the end of it all we must admit two things, 1) the MSS we have are very late, have been redacted and edited and had additions included, therefore we can never know what was originally written and 2) Whether or not YHWH appeared or not, or how often it appeared, really is not very important.

32

"Gem from the November 2019 WT. Reject apostate material because JWs trust in "their brothers."

by Daniel1555 in

dear friends.

i didn't post for a while, but i still enjoy the great jwn community.. just wanted to share a "gem" from the november 2019 study watchtower.. paragraph 8 from the article "are you maintaining your large shield of faith?".

satan, “the father of the lie,” uses those under his control to spread lies about jehovah and about our brothers and sisters.

Phizzy

Who the person is that the information comes from is not relevant of course, as C.T Russell pointed out, if Satan speaks truth, it is still truth. As he does in the Temptation story.

So JW's should examine what is said or written, thoroughly, to see what is true and what is not. Of course, getting them to do so when their minds are so heavily controlled is extremely difficult. But it is what the Beroeans did, and what I did when I first allowed myself to question, I wanted "the truth" to be what it claimed.

Truth is established by verifiable Facts, hence JW Facts.com is a good, reliable and honest source for them.

JW's ! please find out the truth about "the truth" ! For your own good and mental health !

35

The Lords prayer ;Our Father prayer...."Let your name be sanctified " from Jesus.

by smiddy3 in

jw
friends

according to mathew 6:9 jesus instructed his followers in, vs. 9 " you must pray, then this way "our father in the heavens,let your name be sanctified ..... which rank & file jehovah`s witnesses have been led to believe for the past 140 or so years is to make a personal name of god namely jehovah known to all of the world ,because as they have so loudly professed christendom has kept that name away from the general public.. not true ,raymundus martinus a spanish catholic monk of the 13th-14th century first coined that name for god and it has been used in and on churches throughout christendom in the world ever since.. true christendoms emphasis has been on witnessing about jesus christ which is what the new testament is all about,not jehovah god, but jesus christ .

phillipians 2 :9-11. in the new testament ,( cgs ) jesus christ is never recorded as saying the personal name of god ever.. " " none of the apostles are ever recorded as saying the personal name of god ever.. " " none of his disciples are ever recorded as saying the personal name of god ever.. the new testament ,christian greek scriptures are all about bearing witness about jesus christ and after his time of bringing back people under his kingdom will he turn then it back over to his father, a thousand years when his rule is finished.. that is the message of the"kingdom interlinear of the christian greek scriptures" published by the wtb&ts ,says..

Phizzy

Thank you PP, for a very good Post, it is not something I have not thought about before, but it is very doubtful that the N.T writers would have consulted what would have been very old MS of the Septuagint, even in their time, and yet it is clear that the Septuagint is the version they quote from most times. ( there is evidence of other influences on their writing, in one or two places).

But, the practice was to discard old MS, use the newest, hence the older MS have been found placed in "storage" out of respect for them, but at the time of placement they were redundant.

As you say though, if YHWH were there in what they read, or perhaps they wrote it too, it would not have been an issue, as I said too in an earlier Post.

In view of your Post above, there is more doubt that it ever was there.