Posts by Phizzy

But I spotted one, they have dropped reading Revelation 14v4. This talks of the 144,000 being "firstfruits to God and the Lamb", which immediately begs the question, who then are the further "fruits" that will enter Heaven ? J.W's teach that the 144,000 is a literal number, and the total from earth who enter heaven.

Rev 14v4 says different.

29

JWs: No Infant Baptism! (just children)

by neat blue dog in

here's a new article that came out:.

do jehovah’s witnesses baptize infants?no.

the bible does not endorse infant baptism.

Phizzy

As is usual with the JW's they are no doubt using their chosen definition of " Infant". The medical community defines Infant us up to 12 months old, but the Educational Community says up to eight years old.

They certainly get close to the latter figure !

What is evil about it is that they are then insisting that the young child has entered in to a life-time, binding Contract with them and that they can invoke horrific sanctions and outcomes for the child later breaking that Contract.

Evil, conniving Bastards !

35

10 Year Growth Chart

by HiddenPimo in

here are some visuals to help show what is going on with the jw numbers game.

i am not a numbers guy and there maybe a few errors (info directly from grand total pages on jw.borg).

.

Phizzy

I have just been outside for a smoke, I enjoy small cigarillos, silly to smoke at all I know, but that is when I do my best thinking, and I realize where my figure of 2 Million gone is totally wrong.

The clue is in my post, the 1.5% who have died.

My adjusted figure, using my back of a cigarillo packet method of calculation, means that 1.2 Million JW's have died in that decade. They have added 1.8 Million Baptized, with an actual net growth of 1 million.

So they have grown, in real terms , taking deaths in to consideration, am I any closer ???

I think I have confused myself even more now, how can we calculate, roughly how many are leaving ?

35

10 Year Growth Chart

by HiddenPimo in

here are some visuals to help show what is going on with the jw numbers game.

i am not a numbers guy and there maybe a few errors (info directly from grand total pages on jw.borg).

.

Phizzy

When you look at the number Baptized, and then the (fictional) increase, even taking their increase figure at face value, you can see how many are leaving.

They should have added over 3 Million to their numbers, less say 1.5%, for those who die. So, in round figures, that means two Million have left. (?).

Now Statistics is not my strong suit, I can tell you that thirteen out of every twelve people do not know what a Baker's Dozen is, but not much beyond that. But are my figures above that far out ? 2 Million gone ??

52

How Much of the WT Teaching Did You Believe?

by Ding in

some people on this forum have said that they never really believed any aspect of wt teaching, that they couldn't wait to get free of it all.. others seems to have been really gung ho, believing it all until something happened that got you questioning "the truth.".

i would say my own high water mark was about 50%, which put me squarely on the fence, trying to decide if i should be in or out.. how about you?.

Phizzy

In answer to the O.P question, it is difficult for me to estimate the percentage I actually believed at any one time during my nearly six decades in the Cult.

As a born-in, I suppose when I was very young, as it was coming mainly from my parents I accepted it all as true, what they were saying, and probably most of what was being spouted at the Meetings.

By the time I was 9 or 10 I was asking my father awkward questions, one I remember distinctly was when we began to study the green Daniel book in the late 1950's ( the Title escapes me) I was very aware that the interpretations were considerably changed for what had been taught formerly, based on Rutherford's stuff I guess, and I asked how could this be ? and how would the old faithful JW's take these changes ? the old man told me that probably the old ones didn't have a good memory for what had gone before, so would not be upset, and that this book was " new understanding". I did not argue.

By the time I was in my late teens I had decided the "fulfillment" of great Bible prophecies by a few of Rutherford and gang lurking in the trees at Cedar Point Ohio for a Convention was utter rubbish, and from that point on began to question all the W.T teaching to some degree.

I not only questioned the Bible interpretations, but also much of the rigid Rule Making, and often openly flouted the Rules.

With this attitude I got a bad reputation in my Congregation. When I got married, my wife and I decided we were going to make a go of being Witnesses, and that I would not be too much of a pain in our new Congregation, but I was till a questioner and a rebel. I did fit in well at my new Congregation, full of fellow questioners and rebels, this served, sadly, to make me feel comfortable with sticking to the religion despite my misgivings, I say sadly, because had I been in a different Congregation, Rule bound and run by Nazi Elders say, I would have left decades before I did, no doubt.

By the end, I did not believe most of it, and when I learned for sure that the 1914 Doctrine was shite, I left.

15

Memorial date

by DomineIvimus-DI in

can someone please help me with this, if you’ve looked into it before?.

i read somewhere that the witnesses didn’t celebrate the memorial on nisan 14 according to the jewish calendar.

i did a quick google check - seems next years memorial is on tuesday (nisan 13) rather than the wednesday, nisan 14 according to the jewish calendar.

Phizzy

JW's make such a fuss about the date, and won't pass the Emblems until after sundown etc etc, but then get the date wrong however you look at it.

I thought this would be a clincher with one old dear in her 70's, she was such a stickler for getting facts right, and insistent all the JW rubbish was " the truth", when i showed her they had got the wrong date, she just ran off saying " I don't care if we have the wrong day " !! WTF ?

It just showed me that she did not really care about truth, her attachment to the religion was purely an emotional one.

21

cart witnesses

by stan livedeath in

i drove through a nearby seaside town today.

it was starting to rain.

it was cold.

Phizzy

They did used to make converts by knocking on doors and actually speaking to people, even if we personally did not achieve this, we felt we were part of a work that did actually get results. How any of them can even feel an inkling of that doing the cart work beats me, they must know it is a monumental waste of time.

The Cart I see most often is manned by people I know are over eighty, it seems the youngsters are too busy doing....what ? not Witnessing in any way I bet.

The Org must be content to be an On Line Church, but with their media skills, converts will be rare, donations more so.

How long before the average Congo. member gets pissed off with it all ? The Org is doomed to dwindle and die.

18

The Evolution Of The Watchtower Cult

by pale.emperor in

since waking up from the cult i've been curious about where the cult is going and how will it end up?

will it fizzle out or become a little fringe "religion" like plymouth bretheren or the shakers?.

we've already seen the cult evolve from:.

Phizzy

It already is a fringe religion. Just a minor Cult.

I can see their membership shrinking more over the next few years, the "increase" they are getting comes from the few places in the World where the Internet is not available to people, or as has been said, from their offspring.

The young ones in their late teens and early twenties in the West at least, are already not really committed, they view it as a huge Social Club. Sadly they often end up married within the Org, and perpetuate the cycle. But the real die hard 100% believer J.W is as rare as Rocking Horse poo today, meaning that donations are not likely to be anywhere near as high as decades ago.

The Business Model the org has is pretty lucrative, buy a plot somewhat out of town, when it goes up in value because the area has prospered, sell it. Rinse and Repeat. This is getting harder though as they do need to seat their members in a K.H somewhere, and excess travelling cuts attendance.

They are probably happy for it to shrink to about a 5 mill. membership, but who knows what effect the Abuse scandal etc may have on membership ? and as the Internet spreads retention will be much harder.

Maybe another big scandal will damage them even more in the future, a financial one for example.

I see them as hanging on for a few more decades, but becoming as irrelevant and almost unknown as the Plymouth Brethren etc.

30

Do You Think Jehovah’s Witnesses Are A Threat To Any Government?

by minimus in

jw
friends

russia believes they are a threat.

the usa has put witnesses in jail in the past.

other countries look at jws as a nuisance.. do you think the witnesses are a threat to governments?

Phizzy

If you look at the Russian Law that outlines what constitutes an extremist group, then JW's fit the bill perfectly. I can see why the Russian Authorities, not having our inside knowledge about the J.W's, have decided to treat them as they would any other Extremist Group.

Perhaps the J.W's should drop their extremist views and actions,and then be more acceptable, not just in Russia, but anywhere in the World.

But of course, we know the J.W's love to be different, and love to be persecuted, it proves to them that they have the "truth", but does not prove to them the reality, that they really are Extremist.