Posts by Phizzy

140

Why So Many Young People Are Leaving The Watchtower

by Jeremy C in

i have been giving a lot of thought to the young people who are leaving the watchtower organization in recent years.

last night, i was reading the thread posted by jwfacts a while back in which he provided some statistics and graphs showing the rapidly declining growth in the watchtower.

one factor that was discussed at length was the high number of young people who do not stay in the organization.

Phizzy

"All the intelligent ones have left" Talk about cognitive dissonance".

Yes, I thought it strange at the time. Shortly before I left this guy resigned as an Elder, stopped answering at meetings, and used to just sit there reading the Bible, not listening to the waffle, so I guess he had wakened up a bit ! He and his wife started missing Meetings, and she told me "they did not take the religion as seriously now ".

They both remained in, officially, because they have a huge extended family still in and I guess didn't want to lose contact with them. It must be painful to know it is Bullshit, and have to put on a bit of a show, to stay in. But that is the fate of many.

The sad thing too, is that it may well be the kids and grandkids are staying in because of this very couple still being in ! I bet they have never discussed it.

8

Actual setting of meeting demonstration this week

by neat blue dog in

invite your student to the memorial, and explain from the bible why he should not partake of the emblems.. they might as well just put up a warning: do not feed the visitors sign 🤣 meanwhile, more and more baptized jws by the thousands continue to come out of the annointed closet year by year..

Phizzy

If you were ever forced to explain this strange thing, I don't recall I ever was, because I never invited anyone ! but surely, as you explain, it must strike you how 'kin weird the whole idea is ?

I remember also listening once to a Sister on the Theo. School explaining the 1914 Doctrine, and it struck me then for the first time how absolutely silly the "proofs" were, I guess I began waking up around then.

Some people seeing the Memorial explained could well have a similar Epiphany !

33

Would you leave the Watchtower if you woke up at age 80 plus, or just stay in for the rest of your life.

by pistolpete in

so yesterday while i was doing some work for a customer, i noticed the wt mags on the sofa.

and i asked the elderly man if he was a jehovah witness?.

he said that he and his wife and all his children were raised in the religion, but only he and his wife attend the meetings or zoom.

Phizzy

It is a quandary when you get talking to an Elderly J W who has not woken up, knowing the circumstances of a few like this that I have spoken to, I refrain from trying to waken them at all, believing the kindest thing is to leave them in their Support System.

If I later find out I made the wrong decision, perhaps one of them will wake up and berate me for NOT telling them, but at least then I can say, " Well I really did have your best interests at heart", the alternative, waking them up then they end up lonely, with no support, is too much responsibility for me.

I wonder how many like that old gentleman and his wife exist in the Ranks of JW's ? Probably a lot that kinda feel it is all bullshit, and a few, like him, who have researched, and KNOW it is.

Personally, if I woke up at age 80 or over I would still leave, even if it meant being lonely, and without the support of JW's. This is the decision I made when in my late 50's, and would do the same again, but that is just me. I think people should do what they feel is right for them.

29

Newly discovered Dead Sea Scrolls with the tetragrammaton within the Greek text

by dropoffyourkeylee in

big news from israel, some previously undiscovered dead sea scrolls have been found with portions of the ot in greek.

it says the name of god is included in hebrew letters within the greek text.. https://www.nytimes.com/2021/03/16/world/middleeast/dead-sea-scrolls.html.

"the new fragments contain verses from zechariah 8:16-17, including part of the name of god written in ancient hebrew, and verses from nahum 1:5-6, both from the biblical book of the twelve minor prophets.".

Phizzy

I think we are right to be cautious menrov, such Ancient Texts are valuable, and well worth faking, as those who conned the U.S Bible Museum found to their profit !

It will be interesting to see what experts in such texts make of this find. And I will be checking who these "Experts" are ! To give true Provenance to the texts would be a good thing, but to wheel out so-called experts just to make them appear genuine, will be a Con !

20

Why did Paul call Jesus, “the firstborn from the dead”?

by Doug Mason in

"jesus christ was resurrected on nisan 16, 33 c.e., the day when the jewish high priest offered up the firstfruits of the barley harvest.

this fits in accurately with jesus' being the "firstfruits" in the resurrection of the human dead.

(1 cor.

Phizzy

The problem for serious Christians comes with deciding how much of the Bible is literal, and how much metaphor and Parable etc.

Most sensible Christians agree that the Adam and Eve story is metaphorical, or a parable, but if so whence cometh Sin ? Perhaps Jan or someone could explain ? Certainly the concept of Sin as expounded by Paul and later N.T writers was not in early Judaism in that sort of form, so the whole concept is somewhat mired in doubt. And for a lot of the development of the Doctrine of Sin we have to wait until St Augustine of Hippo, and read what that old windbag has to say.

But Paul's saying Jesus was the Firstborn from the dead I do not see as a problem, or strange, within Paul's Christology.

66

Watchtower fined in Belgium

by Vanderhoven7 in

jehovah's witnesses in belgium have to pay €12k fine for shunning policy.

news.

you have probably heard of the trial going on in belgium about the shunning policy of jws.

Phizzy

The Org will find ways around this if an Appeal fails, but their guns will have been severely spiked, they certainly will not be able to take much overt action against those JW's who choose to have a normal relationship with family members who have left for whatever reason.

But the Org RELIES upon the awful Shunning technique to keep members in, so they will circumvent this in any way they can.

The heartening thing is that this Case has taken place in an E.U Country, all E.U Countries will take note of the eventual outcome, and even non-E.U Countries often follow closely, and emulate, decisions made by E.U Courts.

29

Newly discovered Dead Sea Scrolls with the tetragrammaton within the Greek text

by dropoffyourkeylee in

big news from israel, some previously undiscovered dead sea scrolls have been found with portions of the ot in greek.

it says the name of god is included in hebrew letters within the greek text.. https://www.nytimes.com/2021/03/16/world/middleeast/dead-sea-scrolls.html.

"the new fragments contain verses from zechariah 8:16-17, including part of the name of god written in ancient hebrew, and verses from nahum 1:5-6, both from the biblical book of the twelve minor prophets.".

Phizzy

This find adds nothing new to the Divine name argument, the reason the Name was written in Hebrew letters is believed, with good reason, to be a warning to the reader to substitute "Lord", otherwise why not translate it in to Greek ?

As one of the academics quoted above observes, the Text was not static, so it could well be that by the 1st Century copies of the Septuagint which the N.T writers used did not contain the Name in Hebrew, simply one of the Greek words for Lord.

We will never know of course whether the divine name was written by N.T writers as autograph copies of N.T writings will not be found, in all probability. Of course, if a Copy were found containing it, we could not know for sure they uttered it aloud, certainly Jews did not by that time, and many early Christians were orthodox Jews , surely there would have been a furore about uttering the Name if that had suddenly become the practice among Christians ?

The debate will no doubt continue, but my default position is that JW's are wrong on everything.

20

Why did Paul call Jesus, “the firstborn from the dead”?

by Doug Mason in

"jesus christ was resurrected on nisan 16, 33 c.e., the day when the jewish high priest offered up the firstfruits of the barley harvest.

this fits in accurately with jesus' being the "firstfruits" in the resurrection of the human dead.

(1 cor.

Phizzy

I think we have to ask what Paul's idea of Resurrection would have been. He was a Pharisee, so believed there would be a Resurrection, but he probably believed as most did at his time this was to occur for most at " The End of Days" .

Generally Rabbis of his day envisaged a resurrection back to life on Earth if I remember correctly, they quoted the examples from Scripture where ones were formerly brought back to life, but bearing that in mind , how could Christ be the Firstborn from the dead ? I guess the conclusion above is right, he was the first to gain immortality, those previous guys all died in the end.

Paul has to develop these ideas, somewhat hurriedly, and way different to what orthodox Jews believed then, because he is convinced that Jesus , after his death, spoke to Paul from Heaven. And Mortals don't get in to Heaven, presumably.

28

Why do some people who were trapped in the WT and wake up, still believe in the Bible God who allowed them to be deceived for years.

by pistolpete in

why do some people who were trapped in the wt and wake up after much frustration and anger that they were lied to, still believe in the bible god who allowed them and their families to be deceived and trapped for years.

i have an acquaintance who is a lot older than me and for the past 30 years he has been out of the watchtower religion and is sola scriptura.

sola scriptura is a theological doctrine that posits the christian scriptures as the sole infallible source of authority for christian faith and practice.

Phizzy

When I first left I believed in the god of the Bible, and believed it was his Word.

I was painfully aware that the J.W Org had lied to me since my birth, so determined to Fact Check and Question EVERYTHING in future, I didn't want to be fooled again.

So, I put the effort in, did lots of proper Research and ended up where I am today, a Happy, Informed, Humanist Atheist.

If I had not expended the effort, I too might still be trusting as true things that have no Foundation whatsoever.

140

Why So Many Young People Are Leaving The Watchtower

by Jeremy C in

i have been giving a lot of thought to the young people who are leaving the watchtower organization in recent years.

last night, i was reading the thread posted by jwfacts a while back in which he provided some statistics and graphs showing the rapidly declining growth in the watchtower.

one factor that was discussed at length was the high number of young people who do not stay in the organization.

Phizzy

I am surprised how many young ones do stay, but having said that, all the ones I have met recently, or heard of, who are either out or working towards it are pretty young, the oldest was 42, and he told me the names of lots of his younger mates who were Awake at least.

Sadly the older ones are now stuck in until they die I guess. As an Elder said to me just after I left " All the intelligent ones have left" ( I hope he included me in that group !".)

I miss Jeremy C and Posters of his Stature too.